carbon monoxide problem

[CentaurG2]

I have a question for anyone that knows, not trying to belittle the danger of carbon monoxide but it seems to me your house would be VERY VERY smoky before CO would be a problem from a wood fire?
Gas burns much cleaner so I can see where that would be much more dangerous.
Again not trying to give the impression that CO is not dangerous just trying to understand if a wood fire could fill your house with a dangerous amount of CO before your regular smoke detectors go off?

It is a good question. I know carbon monoxide is flammable as it was the primary gas used to fuel produce gas/wood gas autos. If most of it gets burn up by the open fire and only a small percentage of it is contained in wood smoke, then you are probably right that your smoke alarm would go off before the CO detector. The other problem might be the CO toxicity. I don’t know at what part per million CO becomes toxic but I think it is very low. It may get to toxic levels before the smoke detector can go off.

 

[Mike PA]

I have a question for anyone that knows, not trying to belittle the danger of carbon monoxide but it seems to me your house would be VERY VERY smoky before CO would be a problem from a wood fire?
Gas burns much cleaner so I can see where that would be much more dangerous.
Again not trying to give the impression that CO is not dangerous just trying to understand if a wood fire could fill your house with a dangerous amount of CO before your regular smoke detectors go off?

You are probably right that there would likely be smoke in the room. How much smoke? I don't know. It may be that there is a leak in the flue or in the stove itself, but most scenarios result in a smokey room. High CO could also be from a car idling, but you would think that would be noticed. The problem may be with the detector, as changes in moisture can effect them. If it is an older model, the sensor was probably only good for a few years and needs to be replaced. Newer ones last longer. Either way, it needs to be checked out.

PS Keep in mind that CO weighs approximately the same as air, so where the air flows, so will CO.

 

[BIG JAKE]

I saw in your post you checked the seal around the vent pipe. I'd take a short length of thread and see if it deflects as in cold air coming back down the chimney-all around the insert shroud and at the base of the stove where it sets on the hearth. If you insist on continuing to run the stove then call in an expert with a detector and check the seams with that. If the stove is the only combustion source then that's probably where it's coming from. So picture this, if you have a fireplace with an open damper the cold air comes down the chimney-so you close the damper. Same could be happening here. Granted you have it sealed off but what if air gets thru between two bricks where the mortar fell out. I'd also check the proximity of other vents that are close to the chimney where cold air could come down and bring flue exhaust with it. I believe a flue liner to the top would be safest install method for inserts to prevent possible problems like you have. Also, consider that as the fire dies down now you don't have heat sufficient to draft effectively. The cold air in the chimney is of greater weight than the warm air in stove and house. Eventually a draft reversal could happen, but if you have coals in the stove now the carbon monoxide(unburned fuel) comes into your house. It can happen with a car too in attached garage-door gets left ajar slightly while warming up, cold air carries in the CO. Be careful with this and verify it's fixed with a detector that can self test to verify unit is accurate. CO is colorless, odorless, and builds up over time in the bloodstream(accumulates). In high doses it can kill you within minutes. Good luck keep us posted

 

[Caz]

Nobody's warming up the car in a closed connected garage i hope.

 

[taxidermist]

Do yourself a favor and get nighthawk co alarms. I am a firefighter and we run a lot of co detector calls and most are false readings. If I go into a house and have a nighthawk going off then I know there is a problem. We use a hand held detector to confirm and locate the problem. Here is a great link.


http://www.homesafe.com/coalert/

be safe
Rob

 

[Suz]

Nobody's warming up the car in a closed connected garage i hope.

You can get CO in the house even if the attached garage hasn't got the door closed.
This is what I was going to suggest also; is someone warming the car in the garage?

One thing I could never figure out is why gas ranges and ovens a concern for CO poisoning? I've never seen a gas range vented to the outside.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Do yourself a favor and get nighthawk co alarms. I am a firefighter and we run a lot of co detector calls and most are false readings. If I go into a house and have a nighthawk going off then I know there is a problem. We use a hand held detector to confirm and locate the problem. Here is a great link.


http://www.homesafe.com/coalert/

be safe
Rob

I just chucked our Nighthawk in the trash. We bought it following our recent stove install and couldn't get it to stop going off without unplugging it and taking the battery out. Just tried it again outside on the front porch. Stuck a battery in that thing and about 90 seconds later, full alarm. Guess there's a lot of CO out in the world. Probably all those fires in California last summer.

Ian

 

[taxidermist]

I just chucked our Nighthawk in the trash. We bought it following our recent stove install and couldn't get it to stop going off without unplugging it and taking the battery out. Just tried it again outside on the front porch. Stuck a battery in that thing and about 90 seconds later, full alarm. Guess there's a lot of CO out in the world. Probably all those fires in California last summer.

Ian

well send it back they have a 5yr warrenty and a 7 year life span. Kiddie also had some defective units sold call them and get it fixed. Belive me I trust them with my own family and I bet I have delt with a bunch of CO calls and know what works and what dosent.

Rob

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I dug it out of the trash and sent them an email requesting a return. We'll see what they say.

Ian

 

[November Wolf]

We have had CO poisoning in our home twice. The first time was from a gas log insert. It was not burning correctly and made everyone in the house sick. Luckily we noticed it before we went to bed or we would of not made it through the night. We aired the house out but we were still very very nauseous the next day. Our CO detector failed to go off. I have since taken the gas log out and back to wood. The 2nd time was from a down draft on our boiler's chimney.

This has been the biggest reason we got a OWB now.

Don't take any chances and find out for sure what the problem is.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I don't like the thoughts of being sick... but if I can go to sleep and just not wake up, what the heck. I won't have to go to work tomorrow morning and my mortgage company can go climb a rope.... LOL

Ian

 

[November Wolf]

I don't like the thoughts of being sick... but if I can go to sleep and just not wake up, what the heck. I won't have to go to work tomorrow morning and my mortgage company can go climb a rope.... LOL

Ian

That's one heck of a Stimulus package.

 

[husky455rancher]

I don't like the thoughts of being sick... but if I can go to sleep and just not wake up, what the heck. I won't have to go to work tomorrow morning and my mortgage company can go climb a rope.... LOL

Ian

hahaha


ok heres what i found.


well i took apart everything there was to take apart on the stove and cleaned everything in it. cleaned the chimney aswell and there was no blockage. i put it all together and made sure every connection was tighter than my bosses ass.

i went out and got 2 new detectors too. they have a digital display for ppm on the face too. i put one right on the mantle and lit the stove. its been running since early this afternoon. havent heard a squak from the detector.

also the stove seems to be heating better. ive noticed everyear ive had it, it heats worse and worse everyear. so maybe there was enough crap up on top of the top plate to slow the exhaust enough to cause a leak? or possibly i had 2 bad detectors.

i do feel quite a bit better than i was but it has been a week now and it could be coincidence.

right now i tend to believe the stove was just kinda blocked up. ill report back if i notice it heating better aswell.

if i get another problem then ill have someone come in. but as of now all my installs and inspections were done by me. its all 100% safe just none of it is inspected after all the fire department bout told me to piss off when i asked about it anyway.


thanks for all the great replies guys!

 

[Buckethead]

Hmmm...this situation sounds familiar. In the past month I've had 4 calls where the CO detectors were sounding but our really expensive, recently calibrated CO meter detected nothing. When the homeowner purchased a new detector the problem went away. All of the suspect CO alarms were battery operated units that were 2-4 years old.

I have had good experiences with the Nighthawk detectors but, any unit that is AC powered with a battery back up and a digital display is a good choice. While there are occasional problems with individual units, most major manufacturers build a good reliable product. It is important to note that like smoke detectors, CO detectors also have a life span...usually 7-10 years. Be sure to read the instructions for the specifics of your detector.

I realize that members from all over the world will read this and I can not speak for every fire department. However, in the northeast U.S. most fire departments have CO meters and we are more than happy to come and check your home for CO. Personally, I do not look for "violations" when investigating a CO problem although I will point out hazards to homeowners to help keep them safe. I don't have any interest in "writing up" anyone. I believe that I'm there to help the residents not to whiz in their Wheaties.

My best CO story:

We got called to a raised ranch style house where their 3 CO detectors had activated earlier in the day but reset themselves. I asked the resident where the furnace was located and he told me "we have electric heat."

"Oh" I replied, "well where is your water heater?"

"It's electric too" he replied.

"Do you have any gas or oil fired appliances?" I inquired.

"Nope" replied the homeowner.

"Do you ever warm up the car in the garage?" I asked hopefully.

"Never, we always pull out the car and shut the garage door" he replied.

I silently swore with a puzzled look on my face. After a powow with my crew we realized the only possible source of CO was the car. We had the homeowner pull the car out and shut the garage door. In short order the CO alarms were sounding! It turns out the wind was blowing the CO past the nonexistent garage door seals, into the garage, and finally into the house. I don't think I've ever worked that hard to solve a CO problem before or since.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

I despise unvented gas fireplaces, logs, etc....just death waiting to happen.

 

[November Wolf]

I despise unvented gas fireplaces, logs, etc....just death waiting to happen.

I'll drink to that!

 

[mga]

I despise unvented gas fireplaces, logs, etc....just death waiting to happen.

i never understood them either, but what's the diff when using a gas stove or oven for a few hours?

 

[macguyver909]

I have a 3 story outside chimney on my house and a alladin fireplace insert in the basement. This chimney has a draft reversal problem. When its cold out and I want to light a fire I have to put a box fan blowing into the fireplace insert to get the draft going up insted of down. One day I let the fire burn down to nothing with a lot of ash in the insert. Next thing I know the CO detectors are going off.

Well what happend was that a few coals were smouldering in the ash and didn't keep the chimney hot enough to keep the draft going up. The draft reversed and the gasses went onto the house.

Now when I let the fire go out I always stir it a few times and keep the vents open to make sure it burns out fast.

I know a chimney thought the interior of the house would fix this problem but $$$$$$$$$$.

 

[November Wolf]

I have a 3 story outside chimney on my house and a alladin fireplace insert in the basement. This chimney has a draft reversal problem. When its cold out and I want to light a fire I have to put a box fan blowing into the fireplace insert to get the draft going up insted of down. One day I let the fire burn down to nothing with a lot of ash in the insert. Next thing I know the CO detectors are going off.

Well what happend was that a few coals were smouldering in the ash and didn't keep the chimney hot enough to keep the draft going up. The draft reversed and the gasses went onto the house.

Now when I let the fire go out I always stir it a few times and keep the vents open to make sure it burns out fast.

I know a chimney thought the interior of the house would fix this problem but $$$$$$$$$$.

Is your home very well insulated and tight ( no air leaks). My home is and everytime my house was closed up and I opened a door or window you could feel air rush right in. I had to put a air vent in my basement to equalize the pressure to prevent what your symptoms are. My chimney is about 30 feet up.

 

[macguyver909]

Yes it's pretty air tight, but I still have to open the sliding glass door to help get the draft going. Seems like once the fire is going good When I close the door the fire DOES diminish some though. That is some interesting food for thought hmmm. Thanks.