catalytic or not

[grampakev]

im looking to get a new stove in the off season, i have a dutchwest catalytic, great stove but 2 years and the cats gone, not sure if i want another catalytic stove or not. wood is my only source of heat. any opinions. thank you

 

[bassman]

I had a cat stove and same thing .
I see no reason for a cat unless you are in town and smoke is an issue.
jotul seems to make a good unit as a couple of friends have them and love them.
if looks were not an issue or insurance I would build a big ugly 1/4 inch plate stove that was airtight and had good control of air in and do a 2 pass firebox.
if I had to get the wife to ok it jotul all the way.

 

[logbutcher]

For efficiency go with a good cat stove. Woodstock is a reliable maker with a good rep for quality and customer service.
Cats get a bad rep because owners don't use them correctly or maintain them. We've had cats and non-cats over the years: a cat stove will out perform non-cats, burn cleaner, and use close to 2/3 of the wood for the same heating of a non cat. We now have both.
The 2 stoves heat 100% of the house in northern Maine, burning 24/7 in winter---like now.
Non catalytic stoves were developed well after EPA regs for particulates and cat stoves in the late 80's, since users didn't want the extra step in burning or the minimal maintenance needed for cats. Dealers didn't want to explain the use of cats, or customers weren't listening. Our cat is replaced every 2-3 years at around $150- . Per year it's no big deal for the efficiency and clean burn.

Catalytic stove use:
1. Load or light stove.
2. Wait until the top temp gets to at least 500 F.
3. Engage cat: damper or by-pass.
4. Wait ( important !) until temperature goes back up to over 500 F.
5. THEN, adjust air control for the burn.

Simple, but it is an extra step. Use an alarm or timer. The cat is loaded close to 1/2 as often for the same space and temps as the non- catalytic stove.
Get the cat.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

That sounds like an awful lot of work.



Check out the Quadrafire stoves. They burn CLEAN and theres no cat or silly ritual to get them to do it. Light wood, get wood burning good and set your damper.



.

 

[skytow]

Ditto on my Jotul Oslo. Simple operation, very efficient, and no cat. The only time I ever see smoke is on a cold start up.

JD in SE PA

 

[acer saccharum]

Ditto on the Quad. I have a 4100i, rated to 76% efficiency which is up there with cat burners. If you are burining it properly there is no smoke. Very little creasote build up, you almost don't even need to clean the chimney.

 

[Hoosierheater]

Cat or Non-cat

Count me in the non-cat camp also. I could replace my Quad 3100 in 12 years with my savings on replacing cat units. I surely do enjoy watching the flames dancing on the ceiling in the burn chamber when things are "cooking".

 

[logbutcher]

That sounds like an awful lot of work
Check out the Quadrafire stoves. They burn CLEAN and theres no cat or silly ritual to get them to do it. Light wood, get wood burning good and set your damper.

Poor baby..."all that work". Oh my god ! Let's get down to what is involved in that "silly ritual"
Now Mr. Wolf, do you really really really heat with wood ? Now get down here: really use wood for heating, not that PA. romance thing "by-the-fire" or "up from" 65 F. No, a dead cut your own, full bore, 24/7 use of wood heat ? The truth now.
More: when you load the stove ( a new burn cycle ), do you just throw that wood in, damp it down, run to the fridge for your Bud Lite ? Or, as real macho burner, allow the load to ignite to where it's ready for heating ?
The truth Wolf ! So that's the "ritual" : load, get it up to burn temp, drop the air.
With a cat there's just one extra step ( count 'em--ONE ): get the cat up to glowing temp to re-burn the gases for heating.
Now that maaaarvelous Quad has parts that IF YOU ARE USING IT FOR HEATING ( whew, that hurt) need replacing.....kinda like a catalyst ! :monkey:
Besides, we save loading and goodbody's firewood with my cat compared to my lady's non-cat. Remember, there's one of each kind burning 24/7 in our winter climate.
Want efficiency, more out of the stove, less wood for the same heat, get the cat .

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Someone certainly has their panties in a wad........

Yes, I Really Really Really heat with wood. I burned 5 cords this year and could have used 6.


I bought 500 gal of #2 in july last year and still have 1/3 tank left and would have 1/2 left, but as I said Im outta would and Im not touchin next years supply just for march. I have oil hot water also. My stove is in the basement and does a good job of heating both floors nicely with a lil help from some duct fans. I have a huge masonry chimney, centrally located that will stay 75* for days when we go away.





My stove is 3 yrs old and stays lit from october to march most years and hasnt needed nothing except the ash cleaned out 2X per month, but when it does, and it will, Its all covered under warranty.:looser:


Now C'Mon, lets get right down to it, theres one thing you forgot when describing your lil stove dance, TIME.


I mostly fill the stove, shut the door and walk away. Its not whats recommended, True, but it works well with dry wood and with ash and maple it is all you need to do, the wood is burning before the door is even shut.



And in case your uninformed about the Quad, and you obviously are, there are four burn zones (count em 4) in the stove. This allows for nearly complete combustion to take place in the BODY of the stove for excellent efficiency. The stove super heats some of the incoming air and injects it into any unburnt gasses above the fire in the main Re burn zone and gives the effect of a rolling wave of flame in the top of the stove. Sometimes this portion of the fire is so intense that a wave of flame actually travels down the door glass, not only keeping the glass clean, but looking Way Way Way Cool!



Just wondering now, what make and model of Lady non cat stove do you have?


And if its so bad, why havent you upgraded? I can see why you havent bought a second cat stove if you need a supplementary stove to heat your house, but I dont follow your reasoning as to why the cat is so great.



Your ball hotshot.:hmm3grin2orange:
.

 

[bassman]

opcorn:

correct me if I am wrong but I was told and can see that a cat only burns up the smoke .
how does it increase stove output and use less wood???

 

[logbutcher]

Wolfie Strikes Back

Someone certainly has their panties in a wad........

Yes, I Really Really Really heat with wood. I burned 5 cords this year and could have used 6
I bought 500 gal of #2 in july last year and still have 1/3 tank left and would have 1/2 left, but as I said Im outta would and Im not touchin next years supply just for march. I have oil hot water also. My stove is in the basement and does a good job of heating both floors nicely with a lil help from some duct fans. I have a huge masonry chimney, centrally located that will stay 75* for days when we go away.
My stove is 3 yrs old and stays lit from october to march most years and hasnt needed nothing except the ash cleaned out 2X per month, but when it does, and it will, Its all covered under warranty.
Now C'Mon, lets get right down to it, theres one thing you forgot when describing your lil stove dance, TIME.
I mostly fill the stove, shut the door and walk away. Its not whats recommended, True, but it works well with dry wood and with ash and maple it is all you need to do, the wood is burning before the door is even shut. And in case your uninformed about the Quad, and you obviously are, there are four burn zones (count em 4) in the stove. This allows for nearly complete combustion to take place in the BODY of the stove for excellent efficiency. The stove super heats some of the incoming air and injects it into any unburnt gasses above the fire in the main Re burn zone and gives the effect of a rolling wave of flame in the top of the stove. Sometimes this portion of the fire is so intense that a wave of flame actually travels down the door glass, not only keeping the glass clean, but looking Way Way Way Cool!
Just wondering now, what make and model of Lady non cat stove do you have?
And if its so bad, why havent you upgraded? I can see why you havent bought a second cat stove if you need a supplementary stove to heat your house, but I dont follow your reasoning as to why the cat is so great.
Your ball hotshot.
.

Hotshot here boy...talking to you. Talking to you.
Talk about ripped panties in wad Wolfie ! Some touchy huh ?
You are certainly THE MAN with wood

No upgrade cause no need, the non cat Oslo is not an "upgrade", it's another stove to use. The "Lady" is the Lady of the House, not the stove silly. Wanted to try out one of the "new" non cats to replace an older one, thinking it would "save" that dance ( you do like to dance, don't you ?:censored: ) with the cat . That ONE big extra step. The Oslo needs more wood, more loads, can't be damped completely down, and puts out less heat than the infamous dance stove cat.
There are no "supplementary" stoves in this place: the two (count 'em,,,two) are used for heating. No oil.
And no, I am not familiar with the Quad "4 burn zones" ....Do you stand around and count " 'EM " ? You have to have some magic wood with moisture so low it ignites when you look at it. We mortals don't.

Hey seriously Wolfie, glad to hear you're one of the chosen wood burners. Try out a cat, you will be surprised. Thanks for good response. Now, I've got to get off the butt and cut some imperfect wood for next winter.
Happy Trails.

 

[Marc]

Well this thread is going well so far...

My father has had a catalytic VC Encore for ~15 years now, I think he's on his third cat...

Though I was young when I lived with my parents and he had is non cat VC Defiant... but I don't remember lighting being that different between the two...

Build a fire, let it get to ~500F on the surface, close the bypass damper. To add wood, open the damper, open the door, put more wood in... close the door, close the damper.

Haven't had any creosote in the chimney yet... although he still insists on cleaning it 3 times/year.... he does burn very well seasoned wood, though (about 3 years seasoned).

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Thanks for good response.

Heh, No problem.



I just wish I could get the same in return.



If you having trouble lighting seasoned Ash or Maple, I dont know what to tell you.



.

 

[grampakev]

thanks

great info,very well taken, to be honest with you i kinda like the way you guys went a little but thats great. i have a couple months to figure this out, im going to hand down the dutchwest to my doughter, and my stove guy always gives good deals in the summer, i went threw about 6 coards this winter but the house was hot 1800 sq. ft wide open floor plan 2x6 costruction. anyway thanks for the help, and im sure we havnt heard the last of this cat no cat battle.thanks.


p.s. raised, thanks for the pics on the bucket they will help alot. PAINTIES IN A WAD. i love it

 

[Saucydog]

K I S S

Keep It Simple,Stupid!!!!
I've burned 2 years with a Dutchwest cat. stove,several years with non-cats.They both work well IMO but the best stove of all is the one that doesn't intimidate the missus,meaning she'll keep the damn thing burning when I'm out... ....that stove is a north-south loading cat stove with one draft control.She was never big on using the cat. stove properly(read:engaging the cat. at proper temperature),now she uses our Regency non-cat stove without hesitation and it doesn't go out from October 'till April.

 

[monk680]

Every time I've seen a non-cat stove burning clean its was running full blast. Most stoves can burn at 76% if they are over fire. So yes non-cat stoves can meet epa regulations put choke them back and they cool down and start to smoke. If your going to heat 24/7 get a cat stove.

 

[logbutcher]

Dance With a Cat

Heh, No problem
I just wish I could get the same in return.
If you having trouble lighting seasoned Ash or Maple, I dont know what to tell you..

You want a virtual hug Wolf, you got it. opcorn: I'm feeling sorry....
Then you right jab about my wood burning expertise ??:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: You don't know how lonely it is being right all the time.:jawdrop:

Every time I've seen a non-cat stove burning clean its was running full blast. Most stoves can burn at 76% if they are over fire. So yes non-cat stoves can meet epa regulations put choke them back and they cool down and start to smoke. If your going to heat 24/7 get a cat stove.

Monk's got it correct. Cat stoves can be damped way down with a clean burn when the cat is "lit". Non-cats get their clean burn by limiting the control of air: not too low, not too high. We call it a "mommie" stove--EPA simplicity. It works well, yet you lose that efficiency from controlling the air over a broader range in cat stoves.

 

[bassman]

a cat stove will out perform non-cats, burn cleaner, and use close to 2/3 of the wood for the same heating of a non cat.


The cat is loaded close to 1/2 as often for the same space and temps as the non- catalytic stove.
Get the cat.

PLEASE tell me how a cat stove uses less wood.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Just ignore him, he hasnt said anything of value yet, I doubt this will change.



Monk, you must be looking at ancient stoves. The ones being discusses here meet all current EPA requirements, if they burned as you said they must not meet the EPA regs and are outside the bounds of this discussion, simple as that.


.

 

[KindlingKing]

Non-Cat - Why pay the freight for something you don't need

Non-cat all the way. Avalon Olympic. Why pay $150 plus every couple years when you can get an EPA phase II certified stove that is conventional and doesn't cost a dime to burn until it wears out??? The cost of replacement catalysts will only go up and they are fussier to deal with. Gotta have well seasoned wood, etc.