Chain Filing Height

[Philbert]

I thought that I posted this in response to a newbie question last night. Either that thread got dropped, or I was dreaming. But I spent a lot of time on the illustration, and the question gets asked a lot, so I am posting it here.

One of the classic issues with people learning to sharpen is getting the file or grinding wheel in the right place - you are trying to sharpen the cutting edges (top and side), not the gullet. File guides help to hold files in this position.

Don't over-think things: pick one method and work on it until you get good chains. It helps to have someone show you in person.

- get the top and side cutting edges sharp;
- make every cutter on a loop the same length and angles for a smoother cutting chain (more important that they are the same than getting an exact angle);
- if a sharp chain is not cutting, check your depth gauges.

Philbert

 

[SierraWoodsman]

Good Illustration.
.

 

[arathol]

Not sure where that post went. Subscribed with 2 notifications but the links lead to some other thread....?
Oh well......... maybe for the best anyhow............

 

[RedFir Down]

I think its a very useful/helpful illustration and very cut and dry.
Even if you had a bigger file and you were filing the cutter at that height it would make the cutter very blunt... there for dull.

I think Philbert did a nice job explaining that!

 

[CTYank]

On the top pair "proper position" my sorta-quibble would be that the file is shown quite a bit too low. May sound picky, but it's important.

20% is much larger than that. I usually check settings of Granberg guide by braille.

 

[spindrift7mm]

Philbert you have been doing a great job with your sharpening/chain threads. I think your to a point where you might step back and look at all this forum info as just that "info" that a guy needs to process and ask why or look outside the box,what ever we call it. No way is this meant as a negative to you, but the grinder part just caught my eye as in the last couple weeks it has been mentioned in other threads and forums. We hear "I grind my chain but file to touch up in the woods" but what we don't hear is " those guy on the forum are full of BS cause this don't work" they don't say anything cause they think their doing it wrong. I know someone is going to say they been doing it that way for 30yrs. It takes 3 to 5 lick with a file to just get the curvature back in the top plate on a ground chain before you even start to sharpen. If we look at the the angles up close a filed chain has slight curves instead of flat angles, a ground chain has flat angles this is why you CAN grind to the bottom of the gullet the angle does not change because the depth is on the same plane as the cut angle. Chain ground this way looks to have a lot of hook but the angle is right so hook is good for chip clearance if its deep. If someone who's more computer literate than me understands this please enhance the drawing to show how the depth of file is used to match the curve to the angle and how a grinder does not need to do that because it grinds a flat angle. Hope this makes sense to someone. Ken

 

[arathol]

On the top pair "proper position" my sorta-quibble would be that the file is shown quite a bit too low. May sound picky, but it's important.

20% is much larger than that. I usually check settings of Granberg guide by braille.

more like this
Then again if the right size file is used its pretty apparent how it should work and its not real difficult to find the right size for any particular chain. Its not like there is a lot to choose from.

 

[old guy]

Both of those illustrations are showing 20% of the file above the raker and the dialog stating 20% above the cutting edge of the top plate this might confuse some young swamp child like me

John

 

[arathol]

Both of those illustrations are showing 20% of the file above the raker and the dialog stating 20% above the cutting edge of the top plate this might confuse some young swamp child like me

John

OK so heres a picture thats a bit more accurate for those easily confused

 

[mdavlee]

Sorry, Philbert, but your grinder setup is gonna create more problem than it solves. Plus, where it says, "File too high," etc., it should say, "File too small."

Do you clean the gullets out later also or just let them go? The grinder if the wheel is profiled right it will put hook on the cutter like a file will. You just have to set the angle to do it.

 

[mdavlee]

I set the stop just above the strap. I cut in Oak and Hedge for the most part. The harder the better, so I keep the chips moderate.




If you don't like a sawchip rainbow, stay on the porch, Boss.




Sorry, this is what's left after 30-35 cuts through 25" White Oak.

mdavelee, how do you put hook on the cutter like you said when all you do is square file? lol

Semi chisel is mostly what I round file. Looks like they're throwing good chips. I was just curious I wasn't trying to be trifling. Tapatalk doesn't do many Smiley's. When I had a round grinder I would clean the gullets with it down to the top of the strap like when I file them.

 

[Philbert]

Thanks for the discussion. I lifted the original illustration from one of the manufacturer's manuals, so I did not choose the silhouette of the file. Sorry if it is not to scale.

Good call on the lines appearing to be over the depth gauges instead of the top plate.

I see a lot of guys dive into the gullets and miss the top plate edge. Some guys also try to make semi-chisel chain appear to have the same 'hook' as full chisel chain, which drives the side plate edge back.

If you are intentionally trying to achieve a specific profile - go for it. That's one reason to sharpen your own chains.

I am just trying to help new guys get the basics, per the manufacturer's recommendations.

As for gullets, I go back after sharpening the cutter edges. I back the positioning dog on the grinder off half a turn, and lower the head stop slightly, then clean them out - goes fast. Or go back with a file if filing.

Philbert

 

[SawNoob]

Is there an illustration that shows what the top plate , side plate , gullet , raker , etc look like ? Sorry if this is stupid but I don't know what the gullet is. Also can someone define hook in relation to the cutter tooth? This thread is helpful , I stopped using my husky file guide because I was unsure if the file was suppose to rise above the top plate. Slowly learning....

 

[Philbert]

We hear "I grind my chain but file to touch up in the woods" . . .It takes 3 to 5 lick with a file to just get the curvature back in the top plate on a ground chain before you even start to sharpen. If we look at the the angles up close a filed chain has slight curves instead of flat angles, a ground chain has flat angles . . .

So, some of this may depend on how people do things, how they grind, how they file, how often they touch up etc., if I am understanding your comment.

Chainsaw files and grinder wheels do not always match exactly. But if I profile my wheel and only take it down the same as with the file, the curve is not that much different. There is not much of a flat to begin with.

I do 'touch up' filing when I notice a decrease in cutting performance - it might not be as frequently as some guys. I file until I see clean metal on the top and side plate cutting edges. Maybe some guys call this something else.

As I understand it, most of the cutting action is done near the top of the side plate, since the depth gauges control the depth of the cut.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Is there an illustration that shows what the top plate , side plate , gullet , raker , etc look like ? Sorry if this is stupid but I don't know what the gullet is. Also can someone define hook in relation to the cutter tooth?

Illustrations from the "Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual"

When cross cutting: the side plate severs the wood grain/fibers; the top plate chips out the wood; the depth gauge controls the depth of cut; and the gullet helps carry away the chips.

Many guys refer to the depth gauge as 'raker' or 'drag'. 'Hook' refers to the shape/profile filed or ground into the cutter.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

This might also be a helpful illustration (from Madsen's). It sort of shows the chip passing over (under) the top plate, but I think more of it curls into the gullet and breaks up, which is why we get lots of little chips, instead of long strips when cross cutting.

Philbert

 

[blsnelling]

I see no reason to leave a grinding wheel that high. You might as well drop it on down and let it clean out the gullet at the same time. It doesn't change the angles on the cutting edges at all.

 

[demc570]

I see no reason to leave a grinding wheel that high. You might as well drop it on down and let it clean out the gullet at the same time. It doesn't change the angles on the cutting edges at all.

I SECOND THAT!!!! AT LEAST THATS THE WAY I DO IT,WORKS FOR ME.....

 

[Philbert]

Original illustration re-drawn, per comments. Again, adapted from Oregon manual. File may not be exactly to proportions.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

I see no reason to leave a grinding wheel that high. You might as well drop it on down and let it clean out the gullet at the same time. It doesn't change the angles on the cutting edges at all.

If you drop the wheel down you will get different edges - again, you may prefer those.

As shown, you will have more of a hollow grind on both the top plate and side plate edges - more similar to a round filed profile. If you drop the wheel to the bottom of the gullet you will have a flatter profile at the top of the side plate edge, where the heavy cutting of the fibers is done.

Philbert