Chain Grinder Wheel Experiments

[kstill361]

Ok, so I have 3 CBN/ABN wheels for my grinders. I just realized today that my woodsman pro Dinasaw wheel isn't a true 3/-6" wheel. It's in between 1/8" and 3/16", closer to 3/16. But anyway I always use the 1/8" US Diamond wheel for .325 chain and have never really liked the profile it puts on the cutter. I will attach pics below. I also have a Radiac Abrasives CBN wheel that's a true 3/16" thickness.

Personally I think 1/8" is too narrow for .325 and think it should only be used on 1/4" and 3/8"LP chains. So I played with my wheels a bit tonight and I think I will use the Dinasaw wheel from now on for .325 pitch chains. I might even have Radiac Abrasives make me one around 0.1500" thickness just for .325 pitch.
All the chains were ground at 55°, 0°, 30°


Here is the Dinasaw wheel just under 3/16"


Here is the Radiac Abrasives wheel spot on 3/16"


Now, here is a .325 chain sharpened with the 1/8" wheel. I do not like the hook of the cutter and it leaves so much excess unwanted material in the gullet.



Now here is the same .325 chain only I used the Dinasaw wheel that's not a true 3/16" thickness. The cutter has a nice round shape like it's been hand filed and it's just thick enough to keep the gullet clean. Looks perfect.


This one is a 3/8" chain sharpened with a true 3/16" wheel. It has a good round hook like a hand file and clean gullet.



What are your thoughts? Are you guys happy with the way your ,325 chains look with 1/8" wheels or does the 0.1620 Dinasaw have the better profile?

 

[Philbert]

I like the comparisons and sharp photos. Thanks.

It is a bit frustrating that grinding wheels are not available in the same sizes as file diameters, especially, if someone wants to go back and forth (e.g. grind at home and file in the field). Some .325 cutters have different profiles than other brands or models. If you are only running STIHL chain, you might not see this variation. Some people like to use a smaller file diameter, or wheel size, as the cutter nears its end-of-life (EOL), due to the sloped cutter profile.

I don't worry about the gullet when sharpening; I am interested in getting top/side plate angles, and a certain 'hook' profile. I go back and clean out the gullets, if needed, on a second pass.

I also like to round over the depth gauges, after filing/grinding. to match their original profile, so that the sharp point/corner, does not dig in.

Philbert

 

[redtractor]

Oregon calls for the 3/16 wheel for almost all its .325 chain.

 

[Moparmyway]

Can you show a pic of the cutter from a Cyclone ABN wheel on a 3/8th chain ?

 

[.404]

Point taken that there is some slag in the gullet, but the top pictured .325 chisel is a better profile than the next one down with the wider arc radius on the side plate. Both need a smoothin' on the depth gauge.

 

[kstill361]

I'll try to get to all the replies soon. I just got to work. But I'll give some background real quick. I started grinding 9 yrs ago with the 511A hydro assist grinder. I got the cyclone wheel about 9 yrs ago also so it may have been a true 3/16" when new. I have never had it replated yet cause it still grinds like new.

The U.S. Diamond wheel is 100 grit CBN and leaves a better finish on the cutter than the 60 grit cyclone that's why I bought the new Radiac 100 grit 3/16" wheel which is US Diamond, I think they just changed names because they still had my 1/8" wheel I bought in 2006 on file.

All 3 wheels are electroplated not resin bonded.

 

[kstill361]

I like the comparisons and sharp photos. Thanks.

It is a bit frustrating that grinding wheels are not available in the same sizes as file diameters, especially, if someone wants to go back and forth (e.g. grind at home and file in the field). Some .325 cutters have different profiles than other brands or models. If you are only running STIHL chain, you might not see this variation. Some people like to use a smaller file diameter, or wheel size, as the cutter nears its end-of-life (EOL), due to the sloped cutter profile.

I don't worry about the gullet when sharpening; I am interested in getting top/side plate angles, and a certain 'hook' profile. I go back and clean out the gullets, if needed, on a second pass.

I also like to round over the depth gauges, after filing/grinding. to match their original profile, so that the sharp point/corner, does not dig in.

Philbert

Personally I never hand file in the field anymore but I have been sharpening for other people for years. Some like to file between sharpening and some have enough chains they just let me sharpen them every time. I have never felt a difference while cutting with a flat filed Raker vs rounded off so I never bother with it. Although I have thought about profiling a 5/16" AO wheel to do this in one step.

 

[kstill361]

Oregon calls for the 3/16 wheel for almost all its .325 chain.

Oregon charts are inconsistent. I have 3 grinders. 511a hydro, 511ax, and the 511ax hydro and all 3 manuals give different specs for the same chains. I saw in one where .325 calls for the 3/16" wheel. That's what got me to try it.

 

[kstill361]

Can you show a pic of the cutter from a Cyclone ABN wheel on a 3/8th chain ?

You can't see any difference with it. I don't have a pic right now but I can sometime when I get a chance. That cyclone wheel is 9yrs old and may be wearing down. It's never been replated. I would recommend them.

 

[kstill361]

Point taken that there is some slag in the gullet, but the top pictured .325 chisel is a better profile than the next one down with the wider arc radius on the side plate. Both need a smoothin' on the depth gauge.

I like the more pronounced chisel point also but most people I sharpen for are hard on chisel chains and don't know when to stop cutting with them when they get dull and more damage takes place. They really get rounded over. As far as the gullet, I usuall take a 3/16" AO wheel with a flat profile to clean the gullet. I have never rounded the Raker and can't feel a difference or had any complaints.

 

[homemade]

I like the more pronounced chisel point also but most people I sharpen for are hard on chisel chains and don't know when to stop cutting with them when they get dull and more damage takes place. They really get rounded over.

I feel your pain. I became the designated sharpener at work (highway dept). Between skipping off stones and running the saw till it's just dust comming off drives me nuts. And we don't have a grinder to rescue any chains.

 

[kstill361]

I feel your pain. I became the designated sharpener at work (highway dept). Between skipping off stones and running the saw till it's just dust comming off drives me nuts. And we don't have a grinder to rescue any chains.

Ah man, you have to hand file those rocked out chains?!? I feel for you.
Especially if you're getting chains like this full chisel I fixed the other day.

 

[Philbert]

Ah man, you have to hand file those rocked out chains?!?

GWOG (Guys WithOut Grinders) often toss chains like that, as 'beyond repair'. Some guys buy a cheap HF type grinder to hog off the damaged material, before restoring the cutters with a file.

Maybe the highway department can buy you a less expensive grinder if they are not willing to invest in a $300 one?

Philbert

 

[gunnusmc03]

how many files are you going through in a week/month/year?

 

[kstill361]

It is a bit frustrating that grinding wheels are not available in the same sizes as file diameters, especially, if someone wants to go back and forth (e.g. grind at home and file in the field). Some .325 cutters have different profiles than other brands or models. If you are only running STIHL chain, you might not see this variation. Some people like to use a smaller file diameter, or wheel size, as the cutter nears its end-of-life (EOL), due to the sloped cutter profile.

Philbert

It's expensive but you can get custom thickness wheels from Radiac Abrasives. I'm going to order one around .1500"- .1600" thickness.

I've seen them all, I've sharpened every brand chain out there. I still think a true 3/16" wheel is too thick for the .325 Oregon chain that recommends a 3/16" wheel.

I do grind my chains different for my personal use than I do for other people. Mine are a little more aggressive because I know when to stop and swap chains. People that have to pay to have them sharpened abuse them more and keep cutting so I grind them in between aggressive and durability.

This is an old pic of a profile I've used.

 

[kstill361]

It's expensive but you can get custom thickness wheels from Radiac Abrasives. I'm going to order one around .1500"- .1600" thickness.

I've seen them all, I've sharpened every brand chain out there. I still think a true 3/16" wheel is too thick for the .325 Oregon chain that recommends a 3/16" wheel.

I do grind my chains different for my personal use than I do for other people. Mine are a little more aggressive because I know when to stop and swap chains. People that have to pay to have them sharpened abuse them more and keep cutting so I grind them in between aggressive and durability.

This is an old pic of a profile I've used.

I think I used an AO wheel for that one. But I don't use those anymore.

 

[craneguy1]

I was taught about 20 years ago from a stihl tech on our stihl usg grinder to never go past the "line" on the side plate of the cutter....i.e. "gullet"...leaving that material there increases durabilty of the cutter. Just my $.02.

 

[heyduke]

GWOG (Guys WithOut Grinders) often toss chains like that, as 'beyond repair'. Some guys buy a cheap HF type grinder to hog off the damaged material, before restoring the cutters with a file.

Maybe the highway department can buy you a less expensive grinder if they are not willing to invest in a $300 one?

Philbert

if the boss is buying, get the best!

 

[Trx250r180]

It's expensive but you can get custom thickness wheels from Radiac Abrasives. I'm going to order one around .1500"- .1600" thickness.

I've seen them all, I've sharpened every brand chain out there. I still think a true 3/16" wheel is too thick for the .325 Oregon chain that recommends a 3/16" wheel.

I do grind my chains different for my personal use than I do for other people. Mine are a little more aggressive because I know when to stop and swap chains. People that have to pay to have them sharpened abuse them more and keep cutting so I grind them in between aggressive and durability.

This is an old pic of a profile I've used.

That looks very grabby like it would rip the saw out of your hand .How does it cut ?

 

[Philbert]

I do grind my chains different for my personal use than I do for other people.

That's one of the understated values of grinding/filing your own chains. Most people assume that it is about saving money. But you get to customize, experiment, refine, etc., each of the variables for your cutting, your saws, your wood, or just your curiosity/enjoyment/amusement.

Custom ordering a 5/32" ABN/CBN is an option. I just find it curious that the manufacturers and vendors find it important enough to offer and specify 5 sizes of round files, but only 2 grinding wheel thicknesses, for 1/4 to .404 pitch chain.

I was taught about 20 years ago from a stihl tech on our stihl usg grinder to never go past the "line" on the side plate of the cutter...

Yeah, the 'witness marks', on those chains that have them, are said to do a few things: 1) provide a wear /end-of-life indicator; and 2) provide some guidance on recommended filing angles/profiles.

Philbert