Chain sharpening, what am I doing wrong?

[edrrt]

I got a Oregon Vanguard chain and it has a funny raker on it. It cut well at first but now just powders after sharpening.



I have a harbor Freight sharpener and hand files/ jig.

First can I get away with just a HF grinding wheel sharpener? It seems to give the tooth and gullet a very flat face. Where the round hand file leaves a very concave edge. How important is that?

Second what's going on with this Vanguard chain? Does the raker need to be managed differently than a standard chain?

That's what it looks like after sharpening but it doesn't cut anymore.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Gotta get the gullet.
Have to maintain the profile under the top edge of the tooth also, all the way down.

 

[Andyshine77]

The tooth is still totally dull. You can see that the corner is rolled over and reflecting light. To lower the depth gauge the top inner part of the paddle is what need to concentrate on, it's a bit differ than normal chain. And yes clear the gullet out with a file. When you learn to know how the tooth should look, I suggest getting a better chain.

 

[J D]

I agree with Andy, also looks a bit discolored like you may have overheated it. I tweeked the ramp angle on my grinder to get a better hook/gullet. You'll probably find you can adjust the grinder to take the back of the rakers off (which lowers them). Make sure the chain isn't too loose when you run it. Philbert has a great thread on the HF grinders... He's probably putting something together now...

 

[Philbert]

First can I get away with just a HF grinding wheel sharpener? It seems to give the tooth and gullet a very flat face.

HF grinder is a cheap tool that sharpens poorly. If you know what you are trying to achieve; what you want your finished cutter to look like, you might be able to make some improvements in a chain. But the 1/8" wheel is not appropriate for your 3/8" pitch, Vanguard chain. You would be better off with a better grinder, or a file with a good file guide.

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/hf-chain-grinder-thread.268303/

That's what it looks like after sharpening but it doesn't cut anymore

Top and side cutting edges look dull in that photo.

Second what's going on with this Vanguard chain? Does the raker need to be managed differently than a standard chain?

Vanguard depth gauges are unique.

https://apps.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/72v.htm


Philbert

 

[edrrt]

Gotcha so for 3/8 chain you can get a 3/8 grinding wheel that will fit?

Even so you have to go back over it with hand file and shape it?

I'm guessing from what I am reading those rakers need to be done in a very particular way and I have a bugger'd them. I ordered some new chains.

Second question does cutting through wood with a rotted Center dull a chain like putting it in the dirt?



And if you use a standard chain for ripping rounds into more manageable pieces is it going to dull the chain so fast that you really should get a dedicated ripping chain for that?

 

[Philbert]

Gotcha so for 3/8 chain you can get a 3/8 grinding wheel that will fit?

3/8 pitch chain usually requires a 3/16" grinding wheel, but it won't physically fit on many HF type grinders.

I'm guessing from what I am reading those rakers need to be done in a very particular way and I have a bugger'd them.

Use a standard flat file, but file like they show you in the photos.

And if you use a standard chain for ripping rounds into more manageable pieces is it going to dull the chain so fast that you really should get a dedicated ripping chain for that?

Not dull, but cuts slower. When crosscutting, the side plate chops through the wood fibers, and the top plate chips the pieces out. When ripping, the roles are reversed, so people use different angles for a dedicated ripping chain, but not for occasional use. 'Noodling' is often a better way to split rounds, because you are not chopping through the wood fibers as much, (which is why you end up with noodles!).




Philbert

 

[Andyshine77]

Rotten wood, especially areas that are hollowed out can contain a lot of dirt/silica, so yes it's often very hard on chains.

What I believe was is being recommend is simply using a file to sharpen the chain, as the cheap grinders give marginal results even when set up as best they can be. Even the better grinders have a learning curve, but you can get good results when set up right.

 

[HarleyT]

Here is my handy visual aid.
Shoot more for these angles.

 

[user 122190]

Get your reading glasses on, make sure you have the correct file or grinding wheel, and study and aim for the same profile as a new chain. It is not hard, but you got to know what the end result is to look like.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

I keep learning from the guys here, maybe I can pass some of it on and it'll be correct...

I think your HF setup can get usable results for this season and keep you running. (@Philbert is the man to talk with on this.) When your new chains come in try to salvage an old chain (the worst one) by matching the angles and profiles of the new chains. Apply what you learn to the next worse chain, and pretty soon you'll have usable chains. Maybe do 1/2 chain a night and think about it the next day, then try again--way less frustrating and easier/faster to learn that way (plus your chains survive).

After you're moderately skilled at grinding chains, try removing as little material per tooth as possible while still having a properly sharp tooth; putting money in your pocket vs buying new chains to replace ground up ones adds up fast.

Dull chains will wear your sprockets and bar, so keep the chains in good condition, the chips cleaned out of the guards, and ensure the oiler is working by doing a spray test every 5 minutes of cutting--you'll save time AND cash. As you learn the saw and the teeth profile you won't need to test the oiler as much.

In your down time when you feel like it, maybe start reading about the Granberg Jig and filing. If you take 2 minutes at lunch to clean the saw, 60 seconds to get the jig out and on the saw, 2 file strokes per tooth (3 on a bad tooth), and 60 seconds to neatly put away your tools, your drive sprocket, bar, nose sprocket, power head, and chain will last 5+ times longer (even more as your skill improves). Repeat the process at the end of the day (sharpen twice a day) and you're golden.

 

[old CB]

Some years back I bought a grinder---had the proper size wheel and I dressed it to proper profile. Thought I'd love the quick results. Maybe some people can make a grinder work, but I finally got rid of mine a while back after it collected dust for a couple years. Files are your friend.

I LOVE the 2-in-1 thing. I can file freehand, but man do I like that thing. Got one for my .325 chains, and one for my 3/8.

 

[Philbert]

Some years back I bought a grinder . . . Files are your friend. . . .I LOVE the 2-in-1 thing. I can file freehand, . . .

Lots of ways to sharpen. Everyone has to find something that works for them.

Philbert

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

i have an Fg2 almost new I’d let go if you’re interested!

 

[Philbert]

i have an Fg2 almost new I’d let go if you’re interested!

They are hard to get in the US!

Philbert

 

[edrrt]

They are hard to get in the US!

Philbert

Believe it or not I actually have one. It belonged to my grandfather, I found it hanging on the wall in the barn.

So the trick is the hook. That's the critical piece that was missing.

When you watch all the videos of the Harbor Freight grinder on YouTube guys are just going straight down with it. There's a little wobble in the handle so you can change the angle of the blade in real time. If you start in the gullet and then apply torque to the handle so that it Scoops Up and Under The cutter it makes a hook.

I did it with the Vanguard chain and The Cutting tooth looks like it's supposed to but while it cuts better it's still not doing very well. There is some trick to those rakers.

I pulled out one of the original chains that was worn out that came with the saw and sharpened it as above putting that hook on it with the Harbor Freight angle grinder and it cuts really well now.

And it does seem like noodling makes the chain last quite a bit longer then ripping so thank you for that.

I'm finally making noodles instead of sawdust.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Believe it or not I actually have one. It belonged to my grandfather, I found it hanging on the wall in the barn.

So the trick is the hook. That's the critical piece that was missing.

When you watch all the videos of the Harbor Freight grinder on YouTube guys are just going straight down with it. There's a little wobble in the handle so you can change the angle of the blade in real time. If you start in the gullet and then apply torque to the handle so that it Scoops Up and Under The cutter it makes a hook.

I did it with the Vanguard chain and The Cutting tooth looks like it's supposed to but while it cuts better it's still not doing very well. There is some trick to those rakers.

I pulled out one of the original chains that was worn out that came with the saw and sharpened it as above putting that hook on it with the Harbor Freight angle grinder and it cuts really well now.

And it does seem like noodling makes the chain last quite a bit longer then ripping so thank you for that.

I'm finally making noodles instead of sawdust.

View attachment 890904

Hmm, if that’s you noodling, I don’t believe your chain is sharp. Just taking a guess.

That’s a great improvement
I have had great success with just a file. Looking at those noodles, though hard to see clearly, I wonder if your chain is actually that sharp. I’d suggest trying the FG2 you found in the barn and use it on a new chain (rather than wasting time bringing back that ground chain) (amazing find by the way!) and see how much better the edge is and compare it in the wood).

For reference, here is a pile of noodles from wood that is slightly harder than white oak at 13% moisture (reached EMC for here)

 

[RED-85-Z51]

If the hinge has wobble or deflection you won't get an ideal grind. I had one and i ruined alot of chains trying to figure out what i was doing wrong.

Picked up a tecomec clone on eBay for 87 bucks new and its perfect..all metal

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

 

[Philbert]

Believe it or not I actually have one. It belonged to my grandfather, I found it hanging on the wall in the barn.

Take a look at the attached, in case yours is missing it.

Philbert

 

[706electronics]

i have an Fg2 almost new I’d let go if you’re interested!

I am interested in it, how much do you want for it. Thanks