Chainsaw choice- help decision going forward

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

Echo, echo echo....Do You hear an Echo in this thread

LOL, It's high on the list but I am currently in a holding pattern. Going to fix up the other saw(s) and sell em and keep using the one I have. Just got the wood stove insert installed and with summer camp(s!!!) the funds are getting tighter than they were when I started the thread.

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

LOL, It's high on the list but I am currently in a holding pattern. Going to fix up the other saw(s) and sell em and keep using the one I have. Just got the wood stove insert installed and with summer camp(s!!!) the funds are getting tighter than they were when I started the thread.

That sounds like a wise adult decision. I applaud you. For awhile all I had was my father in laws poulon wild thing. Learned the most important thing is a sharp chain and a running saw. Eventually it died as it wasn’t young. Dont be in a hurry, pray and wait. It will be awesome. What summer camps are the children going to?

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

That sounds like a wise adult decision. I applaud you. For awhile all I had was my father in laws poulon wild thing. Learned the most important thing is a sharp chain and a running saw. Eventually it died as it wasn’t young. Dont be in a hurry, pray and wait. It will be awesome. What summer camps are the children going to?

Fingers crossed for Boys State, and then Cross Country, Lacrosse, and Scouts. 2 boys. They have to choose, since this summers list ^ is not realistic ($). My bet is they choose a couple XC camps since they like the kids going to those and then Boys State if he gets selected. I'd be good with that.

 

[ihookem]

That is very big wood . I have an Echo 501P , Echo 620P , Stihl 026, Stihl 034 that is 30 yrs old and a Stihl 441. I would break out the 441 with that big stuff. My Stihl 441 class is out of the question for your budget and it is a big saw and rips like crazy. It is not a "fun " saw to use . My Stihl 034 was my favorite However , but I like my 501P a little more. The 501P is a Chevy small block, it gets up real good. The Echo 620P is like a Chevy big block. It has much more power , heavier but is quite a saw. You can get an Echo 590 that is very much like the Echo 620P. It is a fantastic saw . Keep the cutters real sharp on the Echo 620 . A 24" bar should be ok, but the 20" bar will run a bit faster .

 

[tJKrider]

I'll jump on the Echo bandwagon here and suggest the CS4910 while you can still get one as a 50cc option to the CS590. Mainly due to the lower weight if that is a consideration factor. I'm not an everyday user but love mine after a year of use...

 

[Mike Ray]

well i'm going to say what i'm thinking, I have saws with bars from 13 to 28", and the more firewood I cut the more I realize I don't need to cut much stuff thats larger than I can lift a cut into the truck, I use a 24" bar a lot but i'm getting older and I don't have to lean over as far, while i'm sharing random thoughts echo makes good equipment for the money, my son has a 620 with 24" bar and he is very pleased with it.

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

well i'm going to say what i'm thinking, I have saws with bars from 13 to 28", and the more firewood I cut the more I realize I don't need to cut much stuff thats larger than I can lift a cut into the truck, I use a 24" bar a lot but i'm getting older and I don't have to lean over as far, while i'm sharing random thoughts echo makes good equipment for the money, my son has a 620 with 24" bar and he is very pleased with it.

I appreciate the input. I decided to absorb the advice here and pause my purchase and really use my little 35cc ChinoBLackMax w/18" bar as much as possible. Removing the tip guard has really made a huge difference already.

I suspect that if I avoid the biggest (36") wood that I can handle the majority of the big stuff (24-30") with a 60cc/ 20" or 24" saw, which means the echo is in play. Waiting a bit means I can upgrade to the 620 pro model. It'd probably be all the saw I need.

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

... and here is the town dump that is like a never ending source of oak, beech, and ASH ASH ASH.



View attachment 1057042

Just went over there yesterday after a month or so of no cutting. Its gone. Its ALL gone! lol. The big, the small, the forked, the straight.

There's a mulch / woodchip pile the size of stacked doublewides now.

Who/How could have posisbly chipped it all... and why!? I guess they want it gone and mulch chips are easier for residents to pickup this time of year.

I was pretty shocked.

 

[IntegrityCarpentry]

Just went over there yesterday after a month or so of no cutting. Its gone. Its ALL gone! lol. The big, the small, the forked, the straight.

There's a mulch / woodchip pile the size of stacked doublewides now.

Who/How could have posisbly chipped it all... and why!? I guess they want it gone and mulch chips are easier for residents to pickup this time of year.

I was pretty shocked.

That would have been some chipper. Sorry

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

That would have been some chipper. Sorry

Yeah, i doubt it was a chipper. It was shocking that its ALL gone. Lotta big wood in a short period.

I dunno.

 

[sundance]

Yeah, i doubt it was a chipper. It was shocking that its ALL gone. Lotta big wood in a short period.

I dunno.

If not a chipper.....what?

 

[Syflan]

Using my google-fu I found the facts:

1) Blackmax Tools (gas chainsaws & other OP Quip) are a sub-brand of Hart, which is an OEM brand of the OEM Chinese conglomerate TTI

2) Blackmax is an OEM Chinese brand & product

3) Blackmax chainsaws are made in China

4) They don't have Honda anything in them, and never did

5) "Stanley Black & Decker" has no connection to Blackmax tools/Hart/TTI

6) Their S.C. address is not a manufacturing facility, it's just a Shpg/Rcvg warehouse

I hope this clears up the misinformation on the 'net, and I have to say that info at chainsaw larry and other obscure sights is about the worst case of misinformation I've ever seen- likely just copied over the years.

Some of that is correct, some is not.
Blackmax is a brand marketed by OWT Industries, not Hart/TTI. Hart/TTI makes some of the stuff (including chainsaws) OWT (One World Technology) sells. Stanley may also be one of their suppliers. Some of their products have used Honda-clone engines. It is possible (I have not confirmed) that some of them were even licensed.

The b.s./fact ratio seems quite high in re. OWT/Blackmax. High enough that, while the above is correct to the best of my knowledge, I am only slightly more positive as to its correctitude than I am in my knowledge of the constitution of dark energy.

 

[Syflan]

Yeah, i doubt it was a chipper. It was shocking that its ALL gone. Lotta big wood in a short period.

I dunno.

By definition, if it made wood chips... it's a chipper!

 

[fields_mj]

I'm in a similar situation when it comes to scrounging wood. Nobody wants to deal with the big stuff so its easier for me to find and get.

If you've come across any of my posts in the last year, they you'll already know what I'm going to say. I only know Stihl saws, and can't comment on the other brands. With that in mind, I'd find a used MS261 and then order a Farmertech (Chinese) G660 or G466. Both of these saws seem to be holding up based on the feedback from others. Yes, they will need a few items replaced when they arrive. If you don't want ot mess with that, contact someplace like Wagners or Bluesaws.com and see what they charge to go through the saw for you. My G660 required about $40 worth of replacement parts to get it where I needed it to be. Now its a screamer. Great 90cc saw. Add a 28" bar and chain of your choice and you'll be a little over $400 with all the saw you could ever need. As a home owner who's not making a living with the saw, its impossible for me to cost justify a Stihl MS461/462 or MS661 regardless of whether they are new or used. By the time they are old enough for me to afford them, the rubber is getting old and needs replaced. That means reliability issues, repairs, money and downtime. I'd rather spend less money on a new clone and do the part replacement up front so I don't have to worry about it happening at the worst possible moment (ol' Murphy is a real jerk)

On the small side, keep running what you have until you can afford a used MS261 or equivalent. You're looking for a 10 lb powerhead that generates 4 hp. Put a 16" or 18" bar on it and put it to work. Anything over 14" or so gets cut with the big saw. The longer bar means you can cut through it quickly without having to bend over.

Just my 2 bits,
Mark

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

thanks for the input!

 

[FrugalFirewoodDad]

If not a chipper.....what?

Yeah, i dunno! I mean, it had to have been, but damn!

 

[fields_mj]

thanks for the input!

FWIW, I got an email from bluesaws.com and they are running a Memorial Day sale. The G660 and G466 are both currently available for just shy of $300 with free shipping. I've never done business with them, but I think one of their guys is a member on here.

 

[ihookem]

it is a shame how the Chinese get away with copying other saws and nothing happens to them.

 

[ericm979]

So far they only copy old models that are well out of production. The patents and copyrights that protected them are likely to have expired. So there's nothing the original manufacturers can do about it. I do not think intellectual property rights should last forever.

The whole point of patents is a trade- the inventor gets 17-20 years of a legal monopoly that they would not have gotten otherwise. In return, it's openly published and once the time period has expired, it's free game. Corporations being corporations will game the system to make their rights last as long as possible but that takes effort that is not worth it when the product is two generations old already.

Contrast that with the chinese clone carbon fiber bike frame market. That was tiny in comparison but since they were cloning current frames, it got shut down. (In case you're wondering, Chinese carbon fiber bike parts range in quality from the very best to really awful)

 

[fields_mj]

it is a shame how the Chinese get away with copying other saws and nothing happens to them.

You mean the way everyone now sells an adjustable wrench, television, or microwave? Once the patent is allowed to expire, it's fair game for anyone. To be clear, the Chinese absolutely violate patents, and it's disgusting. That just isn't the case with the chainsaw clones. I don't feel bad about the clones because the major mfgs source so many of their parts from China knowing that they not only violate patents, but have zero respect for anything that resembles any kind of labor law. So the choices are A) buy a name brand product and financially reward the mfg for doing business with China or B) Buy a good copy from China so the mfg isn't getting my money. Personally, I'd rather punish the mfg because China gets paid either way.

If you want to get upset about the clones copying something, be upset with the copyright infringement on the user manual....