"Change" and the bore cutting fad

[treemandan]

I never said it was not to be used, it has its place, I just asked "Why every freaking tree" Thats all.

well I thought I had explained a pretty good reason. So you are a logger,clearance? Or the like? I wonder how many foreman watched while the guy making the back cut had his head down and never saw it coming. Seems plausible. But then I ain't got nobody telling me how to do nothing... I tell ya , sometimes I really wish I did.
Is this becoming mandatory now?

 

[tree MDS]

You might not know it buddy but you just hit it right on the head. The next time anyone ever has to chase down a pet in a tree just creeeeeeep up close enough to it to give it a SHOTGUN of a whole nother kind. Really kind!
If you give it any of mine be sure to put a net under it.

I knew it! Lol, lol.

 

[treemandan]

I knew it! Lol, lol.

I guess that technique is along the lines of giving a annoying barking dog a hot dog with a benny in it. You like trying to get your throwball untangled from the lace hooks on your boots and there is this miserable cur in the next yard yapping and yapping. ohh god make it stop.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You like trying to get your throwball untangled from the lace hooks on your boots and there is this miserable cur in the next yard yapping and yapping. ohh god make it stop.

HA!

Or you are doing a 1/4 inch fine prune a huge green ash and know you will be there for 4 or more hours, and it will be yipping all day long...

 

[oldirty]

It looks like you are dealing with the preference of a single ISA Certified Arborist..

anyone see any of the cuts in the latest TCIA mag? felling cuts. looked rather shady to me. i wouldnt cut em that way.

 

[clearance]

anyone see any of the cuts in the latest TCIA mag? felling cuts. looked rather shady to me. i wouldnt cut em that way.

Looked at it just now, by Ken Palmer with pics. Whatever one may think of the bore cut, there is a picture that shows something bad, and wrong for any cut. The undercut far to short into the tree.

Something I remember from the old B.C. Fallers and Buckers manual, it shows the bore cut for leaners, but cautions about the saw getting pinched on big and severe leaners.

 

[treemandan]

HA!

Or you are doing a 1/4 inch fine prune a huge green ash and know you will be there for 4 or more hours, and it will be yipping all day long...

Dam dude, 1/4 fine prune? Huge ash tree? Who pays for this stuff? But yes, and if the dog is inside alone and you can't get the hot dog in you are doomed.

 

[ropensaddle]

I can do without a bore 99.99% of the time. I feel knowing
how kickback occurs this would be a no brainer.

 

[oldirty]

Looked at it just now, by Ken Palmer with pics. Whatever one may think of the bore cut, there is a picture that shows something bad, and wrong for any cut. The undercut far to short into the tree.

Something I remember from the old B.C. Fallers and Buckers manual, it shows the bore cut for leaners, but cautions about the saw getting pinched on big and severe leaners.

that was what i was saying. and they put that pic in full color for all the arborist world to see. i wouldnt teach a new guy a cut like that for felling. and i would probably interfere with someone if i saw them cutting like that.


not really impressed they would do an article on that cut.

 

[woodchuck361]

Husquvarna's instructors at the paul bunyon show in OH. were using the bore cut method with 70% open face on all the tree/poles they cut at the show and were teaching it as the do all method. I ask why and they answered for more control and safer. I see it's use on a heavy leaner that has potential to barber chair. I also like the 70% open face for control. I ask about the lose of wood using the 70% open face and there answer also made sense. They said the depth of the notch is not as deep as the humbolt or the conventional so wood loss is actually minimal and that the 70% does not have to all come from the top as long as the total notch is 70% so more can be taken for the stump side to also help prevent wood loss. The back cut is also made straight in(saving more wood)instead of higher like on the conventional as hinge is intact longer and prevents the tree from sliding off the back of the stump. I am starting to use the 70% open face on my cuts now, as I like the control, and use the standard cut from the back of the tree, not bore cutting. I will use the bore cut only on trees that need it. As a combination of the two techniques seem to work well.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Husquvarna's instructors at the paul bunyon show in OH. were using the bore cut method with 70% open face on all the tree/poles they cut at the show and were teaching it as the do all method. I ask why and they answered for more control and safer. I see it's use on a heavy leaner that has potential to barber chair. I also like the 70% open face for control. I ask about the lose of wood using the 70% open face and there answer also made sense. They said the depth of the notch is not as deep as the humbolt or the conventional so wood loss is actually minimal and that the 70% does not have to all come from the top as long as the total notch is 70% so more can be taken for the stump side to also help prevent wood loss. The back cut is also made straight in(saving more wood)instead of higher like on the conventional as hinge is intact longer and prevents the tree from sliding off the back of the stump. I am starting to use the 70% open face on my cuts now, as I like the control, and use the standard cut from the back of the tree, not bore cutting. I will use the bore cut only on trees that need it. As a combination of the two techniques seem to work well.

Just a note on this. If a Worksafe BC inspector catches you making your back cut level with your hinge (and not 1-2" higher as conventional), you will get written up. Penalties to be determined.

And if you work in one of the cities of BC, chances are pretty good you will get a visit at some point.

 

[smokechase II]

Obsessive compulsive bore disorder

Bore disorder, BD to the pros who have to work around it, should be distinguished from full frontal (open) face syndrome. Although they commonly occur in the same environments.

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The safest undercut method can be determined by a variety of circumstances. One is when working with a hazard tree can the cutter look up and how big of a target do they represent?
To look up one needs to have a high stump. Where the cutter is standing vertically as much as possible during the cutting and can look up easily.
Usually, for any given cutter the conventional offers the best technique to look up. The Humboldt doesn't absolutely require being bent over but sure does encourage that body posture. For some reason the open face is the most difficult and those cutters have never been reported to ever look up even once while cutting. Well, maybe once.

Any cutting technique that is more difficult to accomplish will require more concentration at the stump and take away from vertical situational awareness.
An unobstructed object falling from 50 feet will take less than 2 seconds to reach the ground and will be traveling at 40 mph when it hits your neck as you are bent over doing a Humboldt or a concentrating on an open face.

How valuable is your life?

Don't lock in to any one technique.
Especially when working with dead, hazard trees.

===============

Say no. There are trees that no one can safely drop.
Develop the ability to make all the cuts from the safe side. Safe side is the one NOT below hazards.
Stand vertically as much as possible. This is not just to make a small target but also with knees slightly bent this is the best escape posture.
Look up. Look up. Look up. Look up.
Never use a lookout. Too much time for the communication to occur. A lookout is actually more dangerous as it will give you a false sense of security.

 

[clearance]

Just a note on this. If a Worksafe BC inspector catches you making your back cut level with your hinge (and not 1-2" higher as conventional), you will get written up. Penalties to be determined.

And if you work in one of the cities of BC, chances are pretty good you will get a visit at some point.

Good point, but it does not have to be 1"-2" higher, only 3/4" on small wood. There is chart in the regs, trees over 13' have to have be 6" higher, depends on the dbh. The 70 degree thing is plain retarded. Seen thousands in the bush with a 30 degree Humbolt, on stumps that are huge as well. Woodchuck, start putting in a deeper undercut, there way is wrong, you are asking for chair, for one thing.

 

[smokechase II]

Bd

Bore Disorder should not be confused with the need to place a bore cut on a heavy green leaner to avoid a barber chair.

Also, it can be a nice way to get a hinge just right.

==============

Caution for newbees.


Acquired Kick Back Symptoms.

 

[smokechase II]

logic attempt

"Originally Posted by BC WetCoast
Just a note on this. If a Worksafe BC inspector catches you making your back cut level with your hinge (and not 1-2" higher as conventional), you will get written up. Penalties to be determined."

The logic behind the open face and not needing stump shot is that with the hinge hanging on.............The tree will not kick back over the stump as it is fastened to it.

Look, I realize this will not work with either dead, drought or big timber coming down.

==============

Go back to where the Open Face stuff came from.
Scandanavia.
Small second growth trees.
No butt swell to speak of.

The open face saves more of the butt log generally as it doesn't go into the bottom log as much as either a conventional or humboldt.

The small faces generally work well there as they are not needed to be as deep as the other faces BECAUSE the backcut is at the same level as the face apex. This is a more efficient spatial relationship.
Again, with small trees you can do more in the way of talking a tree over even when you have made a smaller face.

================

If you're dropping big trees. Don't bother with this stuff.

 

[woodchuck361]

Just a note on this. If a Worksafe BC inspector catches you making your back cut level with your hinge (and not 1-2" higher as conventional), you will get written up. Penalties to be determined.

And if you work in one of the cities of BC, chances are pretty good you will get a visit at some point.

Then why is it OK to use the bore method w/ 70% notch and not OK to use a 70% notch with a straight in from the back cut? I know what the 2" higher back cut is there for but with the 70% open face notch the hinge remains intact until the tree is almost on the ground. The result is the same for both methods when using the 70%notch why would it matter how you got there? It would be hard to look at the stumps and tell which was a bore cut stump and which came in form the back. I though the 70% open face notch got you around having to make the higher back cut? Is it a US vs. Canada thing?

 

[tree MDS]

HA!

Or you are doing a 1/4 inch fine prune a huge green ash and know you will be there for 4 or more hours, and it will be yipping all day long...

Lawn jockeys and thier friggin blowers, thats a big one for me - I'm doing a technical removal in a nice quiet niehborhood - where communication should be sweet and there is some lawn guy or homeowner.. whaaa.. whaaa...whhaaaa...ARRRRHHHH!! One time I had a wisdom tooth removed and it got dry socket. Well I'm doing a small/nasty lot clearing job - we all know how those go - anyway its like the second day listening to these two hound/coon dogs baying or whatever, oh God the pain, everytime I had to start the saw, pull cord reverberating through my jaw - for like two days, and those FN dogs! I wished I had a hot dog stuffed full of qualudes, lol.

 

[joesawer]

I cut 103 fire killed trees today. They where oaks, pines and cedars. Some of the oaks where heavy leaners.
I only used a bore cut a few times and that was for codominant trees. I didn't have any of the leaners barber chair. I didn't use any face any more than 30 degrees.
Imo, the best holding wood is usually near the middle, not in the sap wood, and the corners of the hinge are farther apart.

 

[bighugetrees]

Bore cut my sandwich today

Every morning before work I bore cut my sandwich. That is about it.

Thank you for the information.

 

[Blakesmaster]

It would be hard to look at the stumps and tell which was a bore cut stump and which came in form the back.

It's actually really easy. Word has it that in my area, if you're logging state woods, you can be fined for each and every stump that a bore cut was not used on.