Conveyor maintenance

[Sandhill Crane]

I tried raising my 2007 28" Built-Rite hydraulic drive belted conveyor today to move it up to the garage where I can reach it with a power cord if needed, and closer to tools for some maintenance.
The reason to raise it is to shift weight off the tongue and move it with the quad. I sheared a pin in the crank handle today inside the jack, trying to raise it, and pulling the handle out resulted in things inside shifting out of place so the handle can not be reinserted..

Googling the jack company I found they closed their doors three months ago. It is the same company that makes the two speed hand winch on the Log-Rite arch, Shelby Industries.
I then contacted Built-Rite by email this afternoon, asking for a prompt response after first calling them 2:00 pm Dec. 19th.
We talked for seven minutes, including a discussion about what I call a "tube in tube" pivot joint that has seized up. He gave me an off the cuff estimate of each component, and a ball park over all figure. I asked that he email an estimate including shipping.

At this point I would like to remove the conveyor belt, to avoid damaging it with heat, penetrating oil, or grinding/burning slag, while working on the pivot issue. I do not know how to remove the connecting rod without damaging the fastener.

Then I have questions as to components I would need to convert to hydraulics if I don't go thru Built-Rite. I don't want to make assumptions but... It is hard to plan around someone that doesn't get back to you in some form, if only to say we have not forgotten about you, give us a couple days.

First, I do not know if the present valve has power beyond capabilities.
How could I determine this?
Second, what type of valve would I need to raise/lower a cylinder?
Could it be a power beyond and be mounted before the existing valve?
Note there is a flow control valve in the system to control belt speed.
What would I need in the system to keep the conveyor from drifting/settling down?
What are the different styles of cylinder mounts?
And again, how do I remove the conveyor belt?

 

[cantoo]

Sandhill, have you considered an electric cylinder or actuator? Might be a lot less hassle than hydraulic. Not sure if they have a long enough stroke for that though. I think you would likely be better off taking the conveyor to your local welder guy and have him do the refit than to get parts from Built-rite and having to have him do the welding anyway. Ag elevators usually just have a steel angle iron that slides on the side of the elevator.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_lawn-garden+electric-actuators
Here is a local to me company. They make nice stuff and it works. http://www.baumanmfg.com/conveyour/

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Actuators rated for 1,000 pds. The hand crank jack that needs replacing is rated 7,000 lbs.
I checked out some two speed hand crank jacks online. Would have to weld mounts on each end of some type. To get the desired travel with the hand jacks a pin has to be pulled and a slip tube extended. That means supporting the conveyor to do so.

Built-Rite was concerned that changing to hydraulics would tear something up if the pivot is not freed up first. Worst case would be bending both side rails up in the air making a 28' smiley face.

Tomorrow I'll support the main frame with the forklift and pull the hand crank jack out. Maybe drill and tap the pivot. Cover the belt and try to get some penetrating oil in there.
Also on the to-do-list is pulling a row of idlers and see if I can source some with bushings or bearings and quiet it down a bit. Squeaky even with ear plugs.

If the pivot gets freed up I may just tow it to a hydraulic shop and see what it cost to have them order what I need, hoses and all. I don't want to guess on parts, and then have it bleed down when the belt is activated, or anytime for that matter. Maybe a hand crank is best, just the old one was a lot of cranking for 12" of travel, and you still had to pull the pin and screw with that. Probably part of the reason it seized up, it was always a pain to adjust.

 

[cantoo]

Maybe take another look at Kevin's conveyor. Looks like all he used was a long travel hydraulic jack to move his. This one is 7 ton with 19" of travel?
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641740_200641740

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I was looking at Kevin's post last night. The rod seems to have an extension of some sort, and for further increase in height a come-a-long or cable winch.
On the Built-Rite there are two lower mounting points. One above the axle on the cross member (shown below), another below it on the axle tube which I assume is to lower it for towing, or transport on a trailer.

I believe the Northern Tool jack will work with minor modification to the top mount to allow the 1 1/4" cylinder rod to mount, providing an economical option.

Wednesday I pinned the dolly in the reese tube normally used for the removable hitch, and pulled it up to the house with the quad, taking advantage of the all but gone snow in the wood lot. I got side tracked a couple times today, missing a good day to make some head way on it, getting home at 7:00 pm. The wind is howling once again off Lake Michigan with bitter, wet snow.

No word from Built-Rite with an estimate.
My optimistic side says I'll hear from them soon. My pessimistic side says... blah, blah, blah to optimism. (What's the saying? A pessimist is never disappointed.) If that is true, then maybe a grumpy old pessimist is truly happy within. It is a confusing world.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Hand crank jack removed. Not seized, not pivoting either. Good news, just not great news.
I got some penetrating oil in it, and two zerks tapped in, some movement if I bounce on the axle, and lower the forks for the opposite direction of travel.

Thinking of reinstalling the broken jack and tow it to a shop to order the components needed.
No word from Built-Rite.

The flow control valve is plumbed in before the valve, a third hose returns to the tank. Pump to flow control, flow control to valve/flow control to tank, valve to drum drive motor. ? ...have to look at the valve again. It does have reverse.
View attachment 547087

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I got four zerks in the pivot, Two on each side, 180* from each other. That went good, tapping with a cordless and light clutch. Bought a lever handled grease gun, and the pivot is now working pretty good through most of the 45* range. I think the hard part is done, and it wasn't so hard.
The crank hand jack is junk. I did find a long stroke pump jack with a bottom mount at Harbor Freight as Cantoo suggested. I did not bring it home yet. That's one option if I get the top mount reworked to accept the cylinder rod.
Never really liked the original jack for a couple reasons. It was always difficult to crank in part due to a short crank handle. It also had a slip tube and pin to increase travel, which meant resting the top of the conveyor on a pile or truck. A bit of screwing around, up and down. Travel can also be increased by moving the lower jack mount, again, a bit of screwing around.
Ideally I'd like to add a valve and cylinder. Can't be that hard.
Then there are the six lower idlers, with three wheels each, that carry the returning belt. The existing ones sqeak and squak considerably. There are no bearings or bushings. I suspect the noise comes from the wheels shoulder rubbing on the washers. Simple system, and works well, just noisy and not serviceable.
Is two non-serviceable items a pattern?
I guess not really. It has been a good machine all said and done. Needs cleaned up for sure.
I'm with most others as I do not see why these cost as much as they do. But boy are they nice.

 

[cantoo]

Spray those rollers with Fluid Film or just hand pack grease around them and it'll take some of the noise out. I dump used motor oil all over my grain elevator to quiet things down for awhile. Been thinking I might put wood runners under the chain like some of the newer ones have but it's still working and I wear head phones anyway. For the price of wood conveyors you would think they could spend a few more bucks and put some grease zerks where it needs them.

 

[CaseyForrest]

Or replace the rollers with some self lubricating UHMWPE

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Put a cylinder where Father Time is standing. I'll get a picture of mine in a bit.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Here you go:

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Question #1: If flow control is before the valve, does that reduce pressure to the motor, or does pressure remain constant?
My guess is pressure remains constant. I was talking to a guy this morning that thought the flow control should be on the return side.

Question #2: In photo #1, why do they use a high pressure return hose from the flow control valve to the tank?

 

[rancher2]

Sandhill crane I would spend the time and money and put a hyd cylinder on it. I have a old gravel belt conveyor we use for firewood and it has a hyd height adjust I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

That is the plan, to go hydraulic.
Rather than hit and miss buying parts I was hoping to get some hydraulic help on this.
I wrote a note to the Surplus Center help line last night, and sent some photos. Don't expect to hear anything today or tomorrow with the holiday. Two valves, or a double valve, doesn't matter to me. Just so it works and does not cause other issues by changing it over.
I put the screw jack back in, minus the crank handle, so I could use the lift for other things. The A-frame hinge is still rather snug but moves with moderate effort.

 

[rancher2]

Sandhill crane. Surplus center is a good place to source parts. I am luck'y as they are only a short drive for me I bought a lot of hyd parts from them last year when I was building a firewood processor that I still need to get the fine tuning completed. The farm and my real job ate up all the nice weather time we had this fall. There should be no reason you just can't add a valve or buy a two or three spool valve so if you want to add another hyd function later you can. The flow control could be moved but I think they plumbed that way so the flow to the motor is the same where you are going forward or reverse.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Pressure lines are normal to use all around aside where suction line is needed. Only time I've seen cheap "return" hose is on cheap systems.

The flow control is correct. Pump line in, cf to the conveyor motor (constant flow) (or in thus case to the direction valve I think? Hard to tell from photos) EF to tank (excess flow).

Now you could take the EF and go into an open center 1 spool valve for a cylinder to raise and lower.

Most gear pump setups use open center, a gear pump is fixed displacement. A close center would mean all the oil would try to push through the pressure relief.


Could also use the existing valve too.

Put a ball valve T on each feed to the motor, close valves, then it would flow to the raise/lower cylinder.

I'm sure many other ways to do it too, just depends how fancy you'd like to get.

I'd recommend a 2 way cylinder, mine is gravity down and it's SLOW when it's cold. (Like 10 mins to go down slow)

 

[rancher2]

As Valleyfirewood

 

[rancher2]

Sorry last post didn't all take. As Valleyfirewood said you could use some ball valves to run the lift cylinder. Look at surplus center 9-8595-8 it is a three way ball valve two of these would run a new lift cylinder with the current valve. I too would use a double acting cylinder. Single cylinders in the cold are no good.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I had not considered a ball valve.
I emailed the Surplus Center Help line Monday. Got a prompt reply Tuesday morning. They can not design systems, and suggested I call by phone and someone could possibly 'walk' me along. Very pleased to have heard from them. I ordered a valve from them this morning.
I decided to order the cylinder direct from Built-Rite to eliminate having to modify the cylinder mounts which are a single tang on each end. Talked with them by phone today. They're checking on the part...
Once those two pieces are in hand and mounted, I'll figure out the hose lengths and fittings. Then pull them off, until everything is ready to complete the hook-up.

Rancher2: Did you build a live deck for the processor?

Edit: Cylinder is ordered.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

I ordered a two spool valve from Surplus Center, with a motor spool detent, and a double acting spring return spool for the lift cylinder. Then ordered the cylinder from Built-Rite, thinking it should bolt right in, with a tang end on each end. (Still having a hard time picturing a single tang on the rod end, but hoping I don't have to modify the upper mount.) At the time, I was focused on the mount.

Now, have you ever have a thought just kind of blind side you in the middle of the morning? I never asked Built-Rite if the cylinder was a single or double acting cylinder. Apparently it has two hoses, which I take to mean two ports. I looked at Valley Firewoods photos (post #11) and I'm only seeing one hose or port, so I think I'm good with the valve so far.

Walked out by the wood lot today with the dog. Covering really was worth the effort on the twenty five of the fifty cord I got covered. We have had fifty degree days and freezing rain back to back. Light snow and a steady 12 degrees today, and predicted to hold thru the weekend.

Below: Lake Michigan last weekend from a trail at Saugatuck Dunes State Park.