I hate to see someone monkey-pawing a perfectly good saw.
Could use advice on how to address a challenging situation with the chainsaw...
- Thread starter klondike204
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I hate to see someone monkey-pawing a perfectly good saw.
Is that the technical term for what I'm doing there.
My thumbs get jammed/tighten up bad, I sometimes wrap them around the bar and sometimes don't. Many times it depends on the weather as my some days my body will give me fits when the weather is unfavorable, the joints all feel it
.Guess the good thing is I'm aware I do it and am conscious of it when cutting so I hold on a bit tighter/better depending on the saw, chain, and what I'm doing (even when it does hurt).
dor-moor hands
ArboristSite Member
Was just in Calgary, couldn't believe how cold it was. Stoped in last year May for a day to buy a car. That day broke a 91 year record for heat. It must have being over 100. I go back a month later and take a convertible for a test and bought it.inutes later I get caught in the hail storm of my life that lasted for about 45 minutes. It had puddles in the back seat WITH the top up. I was so mad.
Nice thing about Calgary is you're an hour from the mountains. Its early for the Calgary Stampede I believe.
If you go to the old Winter Olympic grounds..they have the ski jumps still set up. You can go to the top and have a look, from the car..its a mind blower. If its a nice day you can go up the Calgary tower or bow building and have an awesome view of the Rockies. 12 hours to Rupert?
Its about 4 hours just to go through the Rockies. The fastest way I would think is going up Banff /Jasper, lake Lousie way.
The best mountain crossing experience is to golden/ Kamloops way. Its all beautiful either way. Jasper route puts you on the Yellow head HWY west. If you go through the booths by Jasper then just say you are going to the AK or they will charge you 20.00 to go to Jasper. You will likely see Elk in town walking around. Watch for groupings of cars pulled over on the HWY. Its likely a Grizzly, Elk of Big Horn Sheep. Lake Louise is a must see. Prices are ridiculous. Its the play ground For the rich. I'm sure it was $,35.00 for a burger fries and gravy a few years ago. Grazier at the lake. Goats on the hill to the right but they are little specs of white that look like a snow patch. People wouldn't see them unless they were taught at 2000ft by a bush pilot from the Alaskan misty Fjords.Definitely you want to cross a in the daylight. McBride BC is part of the BC interior wet belt
So they have Western red Cedar, Hemlock and spruce like the coast. There is an Ancient forest there. The wet belt stops just before Prince George. After the rockies, most of the BC crossing is boring up that far along the Yellowhead. You have to go deep on the logging roads to really see it. The scenery gets good again around Smithers BC. Then its all coast mountain range and rivers. The last 3 hours is a pretty drive. Hazelton has a cool bridge over a narrow passage if you branch off for a quick look. Probably see the Natives netting Salmon from way above. The last 90 minute drive from Terrace to Rupert you will follow the Skeana river most all the rest of the way. Its massive! You can branch off earlier to go to Stewart BC/Hyder AK but that's about 300 miles there and back. There is a glacier on the way but Hyder is a ghost town of about 50 people. They used to have a ferry to Ketchikan once a week. I would take a beaver (mail plane) for $100.
That's an experience you won't forget. Scarry in bad weather when they fly low in the passages then turn around to try an alternative route asthe way out can fig in quick.On a beautiful clear day you are going over the top. It a sick flight
Probably done it 20 times. One time it was on an Otter with a couple of cops and my GF. The cop in the front had the vomit bag open and I was freaking out and pulled the wire on my GF head set that caught her earring badly.
My future wasn't looking good either way I looked at it and the 'force' were in no shape to save me.
Another time just seconds before we landed in Hyder, an alarm started going off and the plane started filling with smoke. May have been interesting had It happened in the middle.
The US military built the Yellow head west from Prince George in '42, same as the AK HWY.
You can still see their concrete gun turrets there in places. An amazing task to protect that coast line and built those roads. I would never doubt the US military.
I hope you get good weather. Its not nice in Calgary right now unfortunately. You can't do it all at once but next time cross the mountains through Montana I- 90, WA state gorge and hit Vancouver and come up through the Frasier Canyon. Lots of tunnels.
Lastly, fuel up in Montana, fill some gas jugs if you got them.
Get you exchange at the bank if you use any cash.
Distance and as well speed, Km to miles just × by 6 (.6)
100km per hour is 60 mph
100 km drive is 60 miles
(80km) 6x8 = 48mph/miles
70km 42mph/miles
60km 36mph....
..
You can run 10km /6 mph over between towns but watch your 50km & 60km
Truckers will cruise control at 50km.
School zones are 30km so that's just 18mph. Its the usually stuff, school, construction zones and exesesive speed.
They wouldn't give you a ticket unless it was really bad, same with out of province plates.
May get busy again in the pan with Canadian/US softwood lumber dispute going on?
Have a good trip
Thank you so much for all of the info. It is great to hear it from someone who knows the area. As for the 12 hours that is the ferry from Prince Rupert to Petersburg which is my end destination. The wife and i argued about the best route for weeks. With the agreement we would choose a different route when we head back in three years. I have only been to the West coast once before I spent a month in Ilwaco, WA for a class. The forest was so different from what I am used to I grew up in the north east and have spent around 10 years in the great lakes region.
I wouldn't call it technical...
My thumbs get jammed/tighten up bad, I sometimes wrap them around the bar and sometimes don't. Many times it depends on the weather as my some days my body will give me fits when the weather is unfavorable, the joints all feel it
Guess the good thing is I'm aware I do it and am conscious of it when cutting so I hold on a bit tighter/better depending on the saw, chain, and what I'm doing (even when it does hurt).
The next time that you have a saw in your hands, grip it with a normal grip, and tap or push the tip onto something (with the saw not running of course)...or just pay attention while you are running it. Gripping properly with the thumb tends to rotate your your wrist down (pronation), bringing the handle in line with your arm. If there is a kickback, the force gets transmitted to your entire arm.
Putting your thumb up on the handle tends to flex your hand back (supination), moving the handle above your arm. If there is a kickback, all of the force is taken by the wrist., and a tighter grip isn't likely to help. In the first video (with the phantom pinch), you can see your wrist is supinated, but in the second video, even with your thumb up, you keep your wrist in a better position.
If you have to keep your thumb up, I would focus on the wrist position more than a tight grip, but it will happen naturally if you keep your thumb where it is supposed to be.
And just for the record, I'm not a safety Nazi. The first 2 days clearing up after the tornado I was barefoot.
When your thumb is wrapped around the handle, you have a stronger mechanical grip. Thank of grabbing a hammer or a baseball bat. It's called a
'power grip'.
Now imagine using a hammer or a baseball bat with your thumb not wrapped around the grip. Hard to keep it from slipping out of your hand.
Same thing with your ability to hold onto / control the saw handle if there is a kickback.
Philbert
'power grip'.
Now imagine using a hammer or a baseball bat with your thumb not wrapped around the grip. Hard to keep it from slipping out of your hand.
Same thing with your ability to hold onto / control the saw handle if there is a kickback.
Philbert
Philbert's such a square guy that he corrected me in private...but I don't mind being wrong. I got used to it over the years. Pronation and supination refer to rotating the wrist. Here are the terms (courtesy of Philbert) that I should have employed:
I guess it's one of those things you don't know why many times till you walk on another mans shoes, or in his bare feet lol.
When I said grip it tighter I meant wrapping my thumb around the handle.
I do hear what your saying and have spoken with others about it, the picture may help explain better.
You must have read my post to you earlier
.I hear you loud and clear.
I'll also get you a picture of my hammer later, analogies only go so far most time
.I also have had vehicles with 5 lug wheels that I drove with 4, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I enjoy running saws, and will continue to do so God willing, but some things that others can do I can't
, but I still enjoy what I can do .Attachments
QUOTE="chipper1, post: 6255438, member: 126071"]Thanks, don't wine about my thumb in the video either, after all the driving I've done it's more comfy .
Here I got some chaps on for ya, I didn't see any hangers in the neighborhood either.
The saw throwing I'll leave to the more qualified
.
@edisto here's one of those muddy logs for you
.
[/QUOTE]
Lol
.Here I got some chaps on for ya, I didn't see any hangers in the neighborhood either.
The saw throwing I'll leave to the more qualified
.@edisto here's one of those muddy logs for you
.[/QUOTE]
Lol
Oh I see, you wanted to be critiqued on body positioning and technique but not PPE
and this time not body positioning.
I think I'm getting it.You just reminded me of an old commercial.
Hey Brett you remember that commercial about 20 yrs ago??Prehaps it was an RCMP or Insurance corp of BC (ICBC)
You would remember it if you ever saw it.
It was about the young woman complaining about seatbelts been uncomfy as well scenario #2
The moterbike rider that said his helmet was also "just to uncomfortable".
Then he is in a halo in the hospital and try are working over him, saying .."I know its uncomfortable". As to her; the health care workers were trying to load her in a van. Her now being a quadriplegic on a lung machine and she was freaking out and they are saying..."I know, I know, I know its must be uncomfortable" and she looked terrified. Its a commercial you could never forget.
Sorry man I'm not laying a heavy on you. It was a harsh commercial. The comfy comment reminded me of it.
I'm not sure I should openly talk about the way I grip the saw.
It must be loose because evidently I keep dropping it.
What did you mean.."hangers in the neighborhood. People right? Not trees. I think its your young one with perhaps a bike helmet on and neon undershirt
*Edit...sort of
That was/is a roughly written post.
Last night work..lol
.
that just amazes me. A Riders fan..lol
No they have been making hemp out of stock for a long time...wait a minute.
*checks spelling*..
that's a mind blower
Thanks, don't wine about my thumb in the video either, after all the driving I've done it's more comfy
Here I got some chaps on for ya, I didn't see any hangers in the neighborhood either.
The saw throwing I'll leave to the more qualified
@edisto here's one of those muddy logs for you
LolOh I see, you wanted to be critiqued on body positioning and technique but not PPE
and this time not body positioning.
You just reminded me of an old commercial.
Hey Brett you remember that commercial about 20 yrs ago??Prehaps it was an RCMP or Insurance corp of BC (ICBC)
You would remember it of you ever saw it.
It was bout the young woman complaining about seatbelts been uncomfy as well scenario #2
The motterbike rider that said his helmet was also "just to uncomfortable".
Then he is in a halo in the hospital and try are working over him and saying .."I know its uncomfortable". As to her; the health care workers were trying to load her in a van. Her know being a quadriplegic on a lung machine and she was freaking out and they are saying..."I know, I know, I know its must be uncomfortable" and she looked terrified. Its a commercial you could never forget.
Sorry man I'm not laying a heavy on you. It was a harsh commercial. The comfy comment reminded me of it.
I'm not sure I should openly talk about the way I grip the saw.
It must be loose because evidently I keep dropping it.
What did you mean.."hangers in the neighborhood. People right? Not trees. I think its your young one with perhaps a bike helmet on and neon undershirt
.
I can handle the criticism, can you husky chucker
. Who changed their post lol.Never saw that Comercial, but as you can tell by my boy wearing a helmet that's what I teach, and when I ride a bike(not a bicycle), I've got my helmet on and have had my butt saved because of it(I think you saw pictures from one of my "accidents"
). My chaps and helmet/ears/shield are on top of the saws, then my glasses, ears, chaps for when I'm not felling are off to the side. There are times I don't wear gear(mainly just running a saw to tune it real quick at.the house, not when working), not gonna lie, but most the time I have it on. I wore steel toed boots and safety glasses for many years so it's just what you do. I also wore hi vis vest or jackets for some of the work, but don't now as it's normally me doing the felling or I'm right there with someone else helping or learning.I have some limitations with both hands(various physical issues), including both thumbs having some issues. Because of that I don't grip most tools as you "should", same when driving a car, loose grip on the wheel. I often hold a saw loosely in my hands, all depends on what im doing.
Here's the hammer @Philbert . I hold my thumb on the top as many carpenters do as it helps to improve accuracy. I may loose some of the "power grip", but a baseball player doesn't hold a bat in hand like that for hours, and I don't hold a saw like that for hrs, although I do in certain circumstances as I understand the importance of it.
If you look closely you can see I even cut the rubber coating away so my thumb goes to the same spot every time without having to pay much attention to it.
Attachments
Anyway, did we scare away another first time poster (or maybe he did not take our advice, and . . . . . )?
Philbert
Philbert
Here we go again Ed.
Are you sure?
Without looking anything up, I'll tell you everything I know.
..if you have half a minute
The wrist is a type of rotation joint
BUT... Supine (Supine Position) mean Back poition and Prone (,prone position) means front position Then lateral being the side. Midline (medial) The imaginary line down the centre. anterior (front) posterior (back) I think the word you're looking for is Latsupprone movement as it has full rotation.
*EDIT*
Opps...
Carry on.
I confused rotating the wrist with rotation of the wrist and I'm not good with visual.
I may have made that word up too.
The wrist is pretty complex.
Side-to-side posture / movement is described as 'ulnar deviation' (towards little finger), or 'radial deviation' (towards thumb).
Up and down posture / movement is described as 'flexion' (downwards) or 'extension' (upwards).
Rotation (really occurs between the wrist and elbow) is described as 'pronation' (palm down) or 'supination' (palm up).
Most people have their greatest strength using a power grip (like grabbing a hammer) with their wrists in a 'neutral' posture - the mid point between each of those described above. The other way to look at that is that they will use the smallest percent of their personal strength capacity if gripping something in that posture, compared to holding the same thing with a different type of grip, or in a different posture. This is one of the reasons why Husqvarna saws have angled top handles.
Philbert
Side-to-side posture / movement is described as 'ulnar deviation' (towards little finger), or 'radial deviation' (towards thumb).
Up and down posture / movement is described as 'flexion' (downwards) or 'extension' (upwards).
Rotation (really occurs between the wrist and elbow) is described as 'pronation' (palm down) or 'supination' (palm up).
Most people have their greatest strength using a power grip (like grabbing a hammer) with their wrists in a 'neutral' posture - the mid point between each of those described above. The other way to look at that is that they will use the smallest percent of their personal strength capacity if gripping something in that posture, compared to holding the same thing with a different type of grip, or in a different posture. This is one of the reasons why Husqvarna saws have angled top handles.
Philbert
I think it was the first one.
IDK ...Do you think because sometimes the advice is so much different that what some may be expecting? When you think about it,
It can all seem negative.
When you have your mind set on doing it yourself and all you hear is 'war stories' as well, "use a tractor".
" get a professional," No telling what one does. Its either fight or flight mode.
I was going to offer more in the way of what he wanted. Reading top & bottom binds and safety releasing tension but he has to be more of a keener.
He didn't even try to answer my questions
You are anatomically correct
Good jucy post!
Flexion and extention as well the lateral movements are the only ones described that involve the rotation joint. IMO
"ulnar deviation' (towards little finger), or 'radial deviation' (towards thumb)"
I don't remember this anatomy description above. To me its a landmark reference name, much like the radial pulse.
I always remember which side is the Ulna and which is the Radius bone. by knowing the position of the radial pulse.
Prone: front position (anterior)
Supine: back position (posterior)
I agreed, I only see this as a radius/,Ulna movement. It's debatable.
When I pick up a saw and give a pull or two on the handle(with either hand), then rev it up and it sounds right, that seems animalitomically correct to me, and it can bring out the animal in me, that's what you guys mean rightYou are anatomically correct
Good jucy post!
Flexion and extention as well the lateral movements are the only ones described that involve the rotation of the wrist. IMO
"ulnar deviation' (towards little finger), or 'radial deviation' (towards thumb)"
I don't remember this anatomy description above. To me its a landmark reference name, much like the radial pulse.
I always remember which side is the Ulna and which is the Radius bone. by knowing the position of the radial pulse.
Prone: front position (anterior)
Supine: back position (posterior)
I agreed, I only see this as a radius/,Ulna movement. It's debatable.
Also if my wrist is higher thus closer to the top of the handle bar it's just like having a wrist pin closer to the top of the piston and causing the piston to dwell at TDC longer thus increasing the torque, so my grip should be increased right
.I don't think so.
Usually they will come back to see what others have said, he has not been back since the day of his original post, I sure hope he doesn't come back with a horror story for us
.
Was just in Calgary, couldn't believe how cold it was. Stoped in last year May for a day to buy a car. That day broke a 91 year record for heat. It must have being over 100. I go back a month later and take a convertible for a test and bought it.inutes later I get caught in the hail storm of my life that lasted for about 45 minutes. It had puddles in the back seat WITH the top up. I was so mad.
Nice thing about Calgary is you're an hour from the mountains. Its early for the Calgary Stampede I believe.
If you go to the old Winter Olympic grounds..they have the ski jumps still set up. You can go to the top and have a look, from the car..its a mind blower. If its a nice day you can go up the Calgary tower or bow building and have an awesome view of the Rockies. 12 hours to Rupert?
Its about 4 hours just to go through the Rockies. The fastest way I would think is going up Banff /Jasper, lake Lousie way.
The best mountain crossing experience is to golden/ Kamloops way. Its all beautiful either way. Jasper route puts you on the Yellow head HWY west. If you go through the booths by Jasper then just say you are going to the AK or they will charge you 20.00 to go to Jasper. You will likely see Elk in town walking around. Watch for groupings of cars pulled over on the HWY. Its likely a Grizzly, Elk of Big Horn Sheep. Lake Louise is a must see. Prices are ridiculous. Its the play ground For the rich. I'm sure it was $,35.00 for a burger fries and gravy a few years ago. Grazier at the lake. Goats on the hill to the right but they are little specs of white that look like a snow patch. People wouldn't see them unless they were taught at 2000ft by a bush pilot from the Alaskan misty Fjords.
So they have Western red Cedar, Hemlock and spruce like the coast. There is an Ancient forest there. The wet belt stops just before Prince George. After the rockies, most of the BC crossing is boring up that far along the Yellowhead. You have to go deep on the logging roads to really see it. The scenery gets good again around Smithers BC. Then its all coast mountain range and rivers. The last 3 hours is a pretty drive. Hazelton has a cool bridge over a narrow passage if you branch off for a quick look. Probably see the Natives netting Salmon from way above. The last 90 minute drive from Terrace to Rupert you will follow the Skeana river most all the rest of the way. Its massive! You can branch off earlier to go to Stewart BC/Hyder AK but that's about 300 miles there and back. There is a glacier on the way but Hyder is a ghost town of about 50 people. They used to have a ferry to Ketchikan once a week. I would take a beaver (mail plane) for $100.
That's an experience you won't forget. Scarry in bad weather when they fly low in the passages then turn around to try an alternative route asthe way out can fig in quick.On a beautiful clear day you are going over the top. It a sick flight
Probably done it 20 times. One time it was on an Otter with a couple of cops and my GF. The cop in the front had the vomit bag open and I was freaking out and pulled the wire on my GF head set that caught her earring badly.
My future wasn't looking good either way I looked at it and the 'force' were in no shape to save me.
Another time just seconds before we landed in Hyder, an alarm started going off and the plane started filling with smoke. May have been interesting had It happened in the middle.
The US military built the Yellow head west from Prince George in '42, same as the AK HWY.
You can still see their concrete gun turrets there in places. An amazing task to protect that coast line and built those roads. I would never doubt the US military.
I hope you get good weather. Its not nice in Calgary right now unfortunately. You can't do it all at once but next time cross the mountains through Montana I- 90, WA state gorge and hit Vancouver and come up through the Frasier Canyon. Lots of tunnels.
Lastly, fuel up in Montana, fill some gas jugs if you got them.
Get you exchange at the bank if you use any cash.
Distance and as well speed, Km to miles just × by 6 (.6)
100km per hour is 60 mph
100 km drive is 60 miles
(80km) 6x8 = 48mph/miles
70km 42mph/miles
60km 36mph....
..
You can run 10km /6 mph over between towns but watch your 50km & 60km
Truckers will cruise control at 50km.
School zones are 30km so that's just 18mph. Its the usually stuff, school, construction zones and exesesive speed.
They wouldn't give you a ticket unless it was really bad, same with out of province plates.
May get busy again in the pan with Canadian/US softwood lumber dispute going on?
Have a good trip
Great explanation of the routes and places along them Jamie. If anyone ever gets to Hyder take a few hours to see the Grizzly bears fishing for salmon, worth the time. The glacier just before you get to Stuart is melting back quite fast these days, most of them are on the coast.
Thanks for your advice on the 288xp last summer, I got darn near the price you had suggested
.I'd like to get up that way and do some fishing myself, but watching the bears do it would be fun too.
A hammer grip is a great example as it puts the hand wrist and forearm in the anatomically correct position.
Only the fingers will not be neutral.
Grip strength will be determined by the diameter the fingers close on. I use the pre 2010 full wrap handles on my 372's because they are thinner that the x-torque grips. I also have Hand Arm Viberation Syndrom (HAVS) so that works best for me in the summer/winter
Now if I go winter cutting in the interior with thick gloves then my grip strength is drastically decreased with that thicker handle grip when lifting the saw up to branch trim
Our grip wouldn't be as strong if we were only making a first but it would be more resistant from being opened. This being said, no position is strongest If its forced back at the end of its range of motion,however,
I believe the thumps up position has a stronger structural threshold and people may find it to be better for light, moderate loads for longer periods or loads slightly above what a straight wrist can pack in the bottomed out position. That is not wrist strength IMO.
The hammer grip is truly neutral, natural and a position of comfort for that tool. I know if someone wanted to try and force my hand down I would start with my wrist straight and knuckles 'down' (in) and slightly up laterally.
They have more than ergonomics and balance in mind with the forward handlebar. Our hand grip lines up our stance and keeps our body to the side when bucking.
If you let go of the back grip then the bar will turn out and away from you. "Form follows function".
Some of those Jonsereds 3/4 wraps were so bad. they had a bad back slope which threw everything off.
You can end up getting MSI's very quick.
Lol.....I can handle the criticism, can you husky chucker
Never saw that Comercial, but as you can tell by my boy wearing a helmet that's what I teach, and when I ride a bike(not a bicycle), I've got my helmet on and have had my butt saved because of it(I think you saw pictures from one of my "accidents"
I have some limitations with both hands(various physical issues), including both thumbs having some issues. Because of that I don't grip most tools as you "should", same when driving a car, loose grip on the wheel. I often hold a saw loosely in my hands, all depends on what im doing.
I know you can take it, As you know I can too. The post thing? I wrote most of it the night before then I decided to eliminate details of
" what I do and stated I wouldn't get into it. I didn't want to put the wrong impressive out there. So the second I sent the post I realized I forget to cut it...lol
I don't wrap my thump because I've sprained it bad a few times with violent kickbacks that send the powerhead back at me. I get alot if the cut closing and the saw shooting out at chain speed. I don't try to stop its momentum but spin with it if needed.
They teach the thumb around the handle bar though,
that's what they want to see.
I think as long as you can anticipate what could happen when, as well you are in position. It's inexperience and complacency that will get ya
" Husky chucker"
I chucked my share. I'll share a good story about me chucking my 30 day old 375 convertion saw into a tree as hard as I could and tore my hand open on the dogs just because I heard on the radio that another Faller said "I just cleaned up Jamie's mess" so I got on the radio and said I was clocking out and my supervisor said thats fine we will talk tonight. That means your partner has to go in too. So I said that's true, I'll just sit and babysit. So I got on the radial and said who saying on the radio that they just gleaned up my mess? No James's mess, that was me, I was just bugging james.
So I said "well this is kind of awkward" .....OK.... I'll just go recover my saw and go back to work. So James said after work that he will just go by his nickname "Peaches" because I answered a few times when his partner was doing half hour man check.
So I said "Preaches! You'd do that for me?
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