TreeJunkie
ArboristSite Guru
Check this out, story of a crane toppling right through the clients home.
Full story at: www.wsbradio.com
Here's the pic it shows..
Full story at: www.wsbradio.com
Here's the pic it shows..
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Crane slicing a home into 2
- Thread starter TreeJunkie
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MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
WOW!
JCSJC
ArboristSite Operative
Wolfe is standing by her statement.
http://wsbradio.com/news/060204tree3p.html
I can not even imagine the size of the minerals it would take to make that kind of request.
http://wsbradio.com/news/060204tree3p.html
I can not even imagine the size of the minerals it would take to make that kind of request.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Or the lack of brain cells...
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
"Dent in the gutter"
Froggy
ArboristSite Operative
I tell you that's a wake up call for some. The crain opperator can always make mistakes. You ALWAYS need to know who you're working with and what they can do. If you don't know the crain at least get some feed back on their tree opperations. BB
That insurance claim would go against the crane owner, wouldn't it? After all, the operator is the one responsible for staying within operational parameters, right?
What I don't get is why they were taking stuff <i>over</i> the house while it was occupied. Just think of what <i>could</i> have happened! No amount of insurance can replace a life.
I don't recall just now, but it seems the article made it sound like the house would need to be taken down. It doesn't look quite that bad to me. The damage is extensive but repairs look to be quite doable. Amazing the crane came through so squared-up to the structure. It looks like only one or two, tops, trusses/joists were taken out.
Why shouldn't the tree company get paid for removing the tree? That's what I want to know. The thing I guess I don't know would be how to go about getting paid for the job...
Glen
What I don't get is why they were taking stuff <i>over</i> the house while it was occupied. Just think of what <i>could</i> have happened! No amount of insurance can replace a life.
I don't recall just now, but it seems the article made it sound like the house would need to be taken down. It doesn't look quite that bad to me. The damage is extensive but repairs look to be quite doable. Amazing the crane came through so squared-up to the structure. It looks like only one or two, tops, trusses/joists were taken out.
Why shouldn't the tree company get paid for removing the tree? That's what I want to know. The thing I guess I don't know would be how to go about getting paid for the job...
Glen
TreeJunkie
ArboristSite Guru
If any neglegence can be proven on the part of the crane co. or operator. As the tree co. owner, i would be suing there arse. That's gonna be a tough one to get paid on, might try get paid by the crane co. in court. Not to mention this isn't exactly great advertisement. I would have crapped myself if this had happened to me. Not real smart bringing the stuff over the house w/ occupants inside. Shouldn't that be standard operating procedure on the part of the crane co.; to make sure the path traveled is completely clear of people?
SilverBlue
Addicted to ArboristSite
Looks like a good ad for a divorce settlement.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
I've always been curious about the liability incurred and who takes responsibility for a situation like that one, or others.
As a climber, if the crane operator signals me that the load is safe, I cut. If I think he doesn't have a handle on it, I usually reduce the load.
My pet peeve is an operator that doesn't use outrigger pads. I wonder if that was the case here.
As a climber, if the crane operator signals me that the load is safe, I cut. If I think he doesn't have a handle on it, I usually reduce the load.
My pet peeve is an operator that doesn't use outrigger pads. I wonder if that was the case here.
getting paid?
Heard this on the news this morning. 2/3rds of the way done and he wants paid? NOT! I don't see the need for the crane in this picture, cut smaller pieces and carry the pieces out. The crane is in front of the house and has to reach over and behind the house which would over extend the boom if it is 180' as stated, never a good thing with people in the house or the houses within the distance of the boom target area if it should colapse. Even the homes nearby should have been emptied, they could have been hit if the crane went sideways. What was this guy thinking?
Glens, the Homeowners insurance guy talks to the crane company's insurance guy and the treeguy's insurance company to find the deep pockets it'll take to replace the house. If the house has a morgage the bank's insurance company joins the fray. If the pockets aren't deep enough they come to the Homeowner and ask if they will accept repair instead. If the town's building inspector says it has to be replaced not repaired, it has to be replaced. Any way you look at it this was not a place to use a crane it was a place to cut smaller pieces and carry it out. Asking to be paid 2/3rds of the way through the job so he can pay his crew is not a good sign. The Homeowner can say I had a new house and I want a new house not a repaired house. This screw up will keep the lawyers and insurance guys working.
I have to wonder if that guy was a real tree guy as there is no tree company name given in the news.
Heard this on the news this morning. 2/3rds of the way done and he wants paid? NOT! I don't see the need for the crane in this picture, cut smaller pieces and carry the pieces out. The crane is in front of the house and has to reach over and behind the house which would over extend the boom if it is 180' as stated, never a good thing with people in the house or the houses within the distance of the boom target area if it should colapse. Even the homes nearby should have been emptied, they could have been hit if the crane went sideways. What was this guy thinking?
Glens, the Homeowners insurance guy talks to the crane company's insurance guy and the treeguy's insurance company to find the deep pockets it'll take to replace the house. If the house has a morgage the bank's insurance company joins the fray. If the pockets aren't deep enough they come to the Homeowner and ask if they will accept repair instead. If the town's building inspector says it has to be replaced not repaired, it has to be replaced. Any way you look at it this was not a place to use a crane it was a place to cut smaller pieces and carry it out. Asking to be paid 2/3rds of the way through the job so he can pay his crew is not a good sign. The Homeowner can say I had a new house and I want a new house not a repaired house. This screw up will keep the lawyers and insurance guys working.
I have to wonder if that guy was a real tree guy as there is no tree company name given in the news.
Dadatwins
Addicted to ArboristSite
I would guess investigators will weight out the piece that was being lifted and see if boom was overloaded first. Then check riggers for support and so on. Wonder who really holds the bag on this one though the crane guy cannot know how much a piece weights until the load is actually on the boom and then its too late to adjust unless he lets it down real quick. Tree company can only get estimate as to what the cut piece will weight but a lot of other factors involved. Even if the weight of the piece being cut is under max for crane other factors like amount of drop, slack in cable, crane might have tried to rip piece lots of questions. Curious to see who is determined at fault. Thank goodness no was hurt but what a mess.
I betcha trees company / best gm is looking at this yelling his head off about he told ya 'cranes were dumb'
I betcha trees company / best gm is looking at this yelling his head off about he told ya 'cranes were dumb'
okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
if this is the same story i saw tonite on the local news, the locals reported the tree comp owner saying they would be taking care of the house repair bill (insurance). also stated the house was a total loss.
bummer.
bummer.
That looks like a lattice boom crane, and with 180 feet of stick, it is one big unit. Mayb enot, hard to tell.. but a lattice boom crane is capable of handling a much larger percentage of its rated capacity when extended way out than a noraml crane, as the stick weighs miuch less....It also needs the whole street just to assemble the boom....Crane Tree Service here in town has one, they're the guys who take whole firs, branches and all, from back yards, as long as the tree isn't overly large. The have a ground crew of 5 guys wielding 066's limbing and feeding an 18 inch chipper, so that the next tree can be done pronto. They figure on over $2000 just for setup and later, teardown, of the boom.
They bid on a 12 tree job, kinda high price, the potential client said. I'm in the process of of putting together a bid. I'd like to be able to pick 6000 lb at 83 foot radius, need to find out if a 110 ton crane is affordable. otherwise, I'll bring in a 40 tonner, then do the back trees, by taking down a fence, risking replacing (or digging) a few plants..and flopping 60 feet of the butts. I'm thinking 3 days, ,about $6000 labor. Crane fees 800-2000, log proceeds $2500-3000, all or part discounted to customer.
These trees are in close quarters, with house and mature landscape, but amazingly, some logger said he'd do the job for the logsplus 450 per tree for chipping--he was gonna flop the trees whole!!! Ilaughed out loud!
They bid on a 12 tree job, kinda high price, the potential client said. I'm in the process of of putting together a bid. I'd like to be able to pick 6000 lb at 83 foot radius, need to find out if a 110 ton crane is affordable. otherwise, I'll bring in a 40 tonner, then do the back trees, by taking down a fence, risking replacing (or digging) a few plants..and flopping 60 feet of the butts. I'm thinking 3 days, ,about $6000 labor. Crane fees 800-2000, log proceeds $2500-3000, all or part discounted to customer.
These trees are in close quarters, with house and mature landscape, but amazingly, some logger said he'd do the job for the logsplus 450 per tree for chipping--he was gonna flop the trees whole!!! Ilaughed out loud!
TreeJunkie
ArboristSite Guru
Rb,
Do i understand you right, your going to sell the logs for the customer, and deduct that off of there bill?
If so, i'm puzzled why you'd do this,,,if they want them they'll be laying right where i drop em. Other wise they're mine as well as the proceeds.
We run a sm. saw mill operation in our company and if we paid customers for the logs that we process into lumber, we'd make next to no money. Thats' half of the reason we do it,,, b/c we get the lumber cheap/free.
Do i understand you right, your going to sell the logs for the customer, and deduct that off of there bill?
If so, i'm puzzled why you'd do this,,,if they want them they'll be laying right where i drop em. Other wise they're mine as well as the proceeds.
We run a sm. saw mill operation in our company and if we paid customers for the logs that we process into lumber, we'd make next to no money. Thats' half of the reason we do it,,, b/c we get the lumber cheap/free.
TJ, why be greedy? Back when export fir was bringing $1260 per mbf, I once did 5 trees for client, chipped the brush, ground the stumps and still gave him a few hundred $. Then I was content with $1000 a day or so fro three man crew, and one of those firs brought us well over $1500, and took maybe 5 hours to do.....
Another time, we dropped a 185 foot fir, plus about 7 hemlock, did no cleanup. We split the proceeds with the client, which left us $1500 for the day, just 2 of us, and that was 8 years ago..pretty good $.
Normal logging work is often done for a flat $ per mbf, or a percentage of the job, which would vary based on job specs--- haul brush, burn, chip, pull stumps, haul them, put in roads, etc etc....I've never done a big log job like that. usually we have to climb, and chip...A year ago, we weren't busy and did a 5 truck load job just for the wood.... due to the low log prices, we didnt make very much...but if we didnt do the job, someone else would have.
Another time, we dropped a 185 foot fir, plus about 7 hemlock, did no cleanup. We split the proceeds with the client, which left us $1500 for the day, just 2 of us, and that was 8 years ago..pretty good $.
Normal logging work is often done for a flat $ per mbf, or a percentage of the job, which would vary based on job specs--- haul brush, burn, chip, pull stumps, haul them, put in roads, etc etc....I've never done a big log job like that. usually we have to climb, and chip...A year ago, we weren't busy and did a 5 truck load job just for the wood.... due to the low log prices, we didnt make very much...but if we didnt do the job, someone else would have.
Gotcha Dan...Still, 180 feet of boom is a lot... likely though, they shouldn't have been using and/or trusting the jib...it's use is mighty risky...as well, more than likely the cutter was clueless when it came to estimating the weight of the log.
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