Crappy Stihl Cylinder - Looks like ChiCom Garbage!!!

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So let's be easy on THall for spewing a fountain of manure, but as for Brad:

Brad did nothing more than point out some obvious flaws (that obviously will affect reliability...saying the saw has to run first is a dodge, and contrary to common sense and EVERYTHING I've read on doing cylinder work), and express his disappointment.

Libelous? Slanderous? Give me a break...the post came with pictures. Was his description inaccurate? Not hardly.

So...you have no problems slinging judgments at individuals, but if someone points out problems with a company's product they are guilty of "chest beating"?

You either have unhealthy issues with saw modders in general, or Brad in particular...or you have a man-crush on THall. But lets not blow things out of proportion by accusing others of blowing things out of proportion.

+1 on all of the above.

And I would add, your signature (indiansprings) describes you as a 'Loyal Stihl User since 76.' So what I would like to know is this:

Would you be so quick to sling bogus accusations if it were a different brand's ox getting gored here?


.
 
I think the relevent facts for me are as follows:

1) The cylinder was likely a "Stihl" inhouse part manufactured in Brazil (Thall's soft speculation way back).
2) A QA issue let it into a production cycle ending in a saw sold to a customer...found by a shop that mods saws and posted here.
3) This isn't a typical Stihl part...just because the casting is from a Stihl process instead of a Mahle process and it looks different on the outside doesn't mean all the Stihl casting look like the one posted here on the inside.
4) After all the knashing and hashing, the Stihl dealers would consider this a warrentee issue should a saw come to them with performance or reliability issues and in the process of analysis, a cylinder such as was posted at the beginning of this thread was found. (The porosity and finishing issues pictured, not the external look and feel of that casting from a different process than Malhe's
5) All manufacturing concerns are outsourcing to China...:cry:

How does this effect me? Even though intellectually I understand these parts may perform within spec..I will look for those style castings when I buy my next saw and they will be a deal breaker, an emotional response vs. a logical one I understand.... I don't care the brand (Stihl or Husky, or Dolmar/Makita). If I see even a hint of porosity..its a deal breaker. Bet I'm not alone.

If I could have one wish relative to this topic..all the brand and person bashing needs to go away. The data here can really impact a purchase and spur solid reseach relative to the manufacturing and quality standards of specific saws that might be of interest. Why turn a serious subject into a haze with all the BS?

I think the sad part is where once I was willing to buy a name saw brands Husky, Stihl, Echo, etc off the shelf and trust it is built to the reputation. Now I won't. I will have to look it over as I would a damn used saw!
 
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Some will try, just to defend Stihl:jawdrop:

Make sure you understand the law.

The assumptions about the con-rod, rope, stop, bending, so on and so forth, have been wrong.

The relationship between the piston, crank, and rod are very important when applying torque to the crank.

As I stated in the original thread about the rod failure, the con-rod has maximum leverage on the crankshaft at a point when the crankshaft center to rod journal center forms a right angle to the con-rod ceterline. At any point other than this the crankshaft leverage ratio increases.

In Trig trems, the side adjacent is the con -rod, the side opposite is the crank, and the hypotenuse is a line between the wrist pin center and the crank main journals.

If you seal an MS260 cylinder, then pressurize it with 100psi you will get a force of about 243 pounds on the piston. That same force will be constant at TDC, BDC, and everywhere in between. At BDC you will be able to move the crank back and forth with minimal effort. Put the con-rod and crank at the mentioned right angle position and the effort to move the crank toward TDC increases a great deal. Continue to move the crank toward TDC and the effort will lessen, although the force on the crown of the piston is constant.

That reduction of required effort is the same thing you feel when you draw a compound bow, or use a cam locking clamp.

If you place the piston near TDC with an uncompressable item in the bore, your ability to use the crank as a lever against the con-rod is greatly increased.

Putting it another way, If you put 100 lbs./ft. of torque on the crank you exert a much greater force against what you are compressing at 15deg. BTDC than you do at 60deg. BTDC.

I would imagine that Stihl's piston stop places the rod and crank in a relationship that favors the connecting rod.


Or, just use an impact wrench...:)
 
Now Ol boy ya know after whipping up the floor with ya I have left you alone. I have seen to many old sports figuares go on to long. The guys who left the site because of threads like this you say is totally stupid if thats the reason they left. Who really cares what the cylinder looks like. If its bad its bad. If steal starts having problems they will pay the price. Sooner or later things catch up to companies.
To many people here take things to seriously. Ive had people cry to mods about some of the things Ive done. Crud ola Ive had to put warning labels on my video's LOL. I never could understand this kind of crud. If you don't like it don't buy it. If it will piss ya off don't read it. If it will piss ya don't watch it.
Now if a man can pitch it as well as take it without getting all school girl pissy great. If ya can't stay out of the fire. I love the hit and runners. Guys on this site that don't like the dog. They come into a thread take a shot then leave and wait for the next thread. Of coarse we have the Lets talk in another language people. That come into a thread and put up there cute little sayings in french, german or some other language and think its funny.
Now tommi boy don't let alittle thread get ya all pissy. Your about the only one that can take my crud.


Ya dayuummmmmmmmm right. This thread doesn't bug me Booker, no pansy here, you should know that. Sending fire back as fast as it arrives has never been a problem. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Don't Back Down. Ever heard that Booker, good song. Far as this thread goes a million posts can be written but my mind will not be changed about that world famous cylinder and the dealings surrounding it. So lets rock, I'll start. If someone walked in the shop carring that thing and the story behind it with the regestration card and reciept, asking for another to pocket some money would get laffed at and sent packing. Thats not riling, thats fact. If they came in hollering Stihl quality has gone to hell I would say what the hell are you doing here then, get out. Thats not riling, thats what my reply would be. Ask 2k how I operate in the shop in the real world, things like in this thread would be stettled in less than 30 seconds.

Now to more important things Booker, did you send those DVDs today? Your Sopranos will be on the truck tomorrow, thanks for sharing them,:cheers::cheers:
 
Ya dayuummmmmmmmm right. This thread doesn't bug me Booker, no pansy here, you should know that. Sending fire back as fast as it arrives has never been a problem. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Don't Back Down. Ever heard that Booker, good song. Far as this thread goes a million posts can be written but my mind will not be changed about that world famous cylinder and the dealings surrounding it. So lets rock, I'll start. If someone walked in the shop carring that thing and the story behind it with the regestration card and reciept, asking for another to pocket some money would get laffed at and sent packing. Thats not riling, thats fact. If they came in hollering Stihl quality has gone to hell I would say what the hell are you doing here then, get out. Thats not riling, thats what my reply would be. Ask 2k how I operate in the shop in the real world, things like in this thread would be stettled in less than 30 seconds.

Now to more important things Booker, did you send those DVDs today? Your Sopranos will be on the truck tomorrow, thanks for sharing them,:cheers::cheers:

So are you to tell me if a concerned customer pointed out obvious defects you would cut them off at dealer level is that the service training stihl gives?
 
You have to have blinders on not to agree that these couldn't be observations of someone relatively new to the site. "loyal stihl user"
probably needs edited, that was before coming to the site, I use the efco saw as much as any and plan on using the dolmar 143 as soon as I get the time to get it fixed. I'm going to buy a 70-80cc saw this fall and certainly have ruled out a 372, it'll be a 372, 441, 460. It just depends on the read I get from the new husky dealer, pricing and how they feel when cutting.

As to #2. if a statement had been made in the same tone against your company, lively hood or family, would you not consider it bordline slanderous and liable. The tone is what I had an issue with, and Brad has been man enough to admit it was probably strong.

As to#4. AS is a marketing tool for modders, they are allowed to be sponsors and talk about their trade openly on the forum, if thats the rules no issue other than the majority of firewood cutters,tree trimmer don't run modded saws.
My cousins family is the largest loggers in the area and they don't touch a modded saw and haven't for forty years.

As to #8. Thats just my opinion after reading post after post, there seems to be a blind following. It's just mine, dosen't have to be yours.

As to #12, After working as a VP for two very large and well respected companies that interact with the customer everyday, I can honestly tell you companies don't give a rats ass about the opinion of one guy, it's sad but it's true. I've seen it first hand numerous times, times have changed my friend they just care about the bottom line profit, if you believe otherwise, your kiddin yourself.

As for the rest, is it not a legitimate question, I have seen all types of claims in my past life in marketing, only Brad can answer that question and I believe he has the integrity to answer it honestly. If it was just to call out the crappy quality, then I believe him, it's just a question you have to ask when someone makes part of their lively hood off the credibility gained on the site.

I don't have a problem with the modders, I just personally understand why a person would pay that kind of change to have perfectly running saw, sometimes under warranty messed with by someone half way across the country with only u-tube vids to show the results. I respect the technical compentcy of some of the modders, computer simulations, precise mfg methods being used with consistent results, but do you wonder if the more radical modds discussed are really beneficial, with the equipment I have and the mfg knowledge I have, I could crank em out all day long it's just not my thing.

I don't even know Thall, it's just an observation, and I believe an accurate one that some just enjoy bashing him. Does he bash back, I don't deny that, it's pretty amusing reading at times.

I'm an independent, just call them as I see them, certainly doesn't mean thats the gospel, like rectums everybody has an opinion and that's what's great about this country, everybody is entitled to his own and the freedom to express it.

The Stihl vs. Husky argument is ridiculous, both are good products, each to his own.





2. The manner in which it was called out was over the top and is borderline libelous and defamatory.

4.AS has become a marketing/advertising tool for saw modders that charge 200-300 to mod saws to some level of higher performance.

8. Saw Modders words are the gospel to a majority.

12. Will it likely solve the issue, doubt it, I seriously think Stihl could care less if Brad supports the brand, I imagine they hope he will start supporting another. It's the same attitude most large companies have just not Stihl.

The only question/issue I really would like to know with 100% honesty was the post used to just call out Stihl or was there some, if just a little chest beating going on to draw attention to oneself to lend credibility to the status of a "saw builder" for self credibility gains, puffing the ego a little---not that there is anything wrong with it, if we are all honest we all do it to some degree concerning some facet of our life.
 
:ices_rofl:

That's only true when you're transferring force from the piston to the crankshaft. It couldn't possibly be true when the crankshaft is being pushed against the rod.

:buttkick:

Ed could you explain that, isn't the piston on top of the rod, awwwwwwwww it is isn't it. I don't know if your joking or serious, I hope your joking..
 
The only question/issue I really would like to know with 100% honesty was the post used to just call out Stihl or was there some, if just a little chest beating going on to draw attention to oneself to lend credibility to the status of a "saw builder" for self credibility gains, puffing the ego a little---not that there is anything wrong with it, if we are all honest we all do it to some degree concerning some facet of our life.


IS,

See this post for your answer...
 
So are you to tell me if a concerned customer pointed out obvious defects you would cut them off at dealer level is that the service training stihl gives?

No Rope, I'm saying if they came in hollering and expecting something for nothing to go make a buck I would send them packing fast. Take note I've said many times if the person who bought the saw brought the entire saw in with a complaint, not the modder, fully assembled, then notta a problem, I fix it, not the modder. Thats how it works in the real world no matter where you go.
 
No Rope, I'm saying if they came in hollering and expecting something for nothing to go make a buck I would send them packing fast. Take note I've said many times if the person who bought the saw brought the entire saw in with a complaint, not the modder, fully assembled, then notta a problem, I fix it, not the modder. Thats how it works in the real world no matter where you go.

Well I guess that would make sense btw I looked at the outside of my 200t and did not see any flaws external, so; guess I got a good one! I won't bother even checking the cheaper version I had to buy as back up when I got real busy a few moths ago. It will likely get moodded as it seems such a piece.
 
Well I guess that would make sense btw I looked at the outside of my 200t and did not see any flaws external, so; guess I got a good one! I won't bother even checking the cheaper version I had to buy as back up when I got real busy a few moths ago. It will likely get moodded as it seems such a piece.

Rope I knew you we're reasonable all along. Yes it makes sense, thats how its done everywhere. Think about it Rope, I buy a saw from you and take it to a modder. He opens it up, doesn't like what he see's and now he's at your door demanding something you knew nothing about and wants it for free so he can make a buck off the guy you sold it to, telling you the quality is poor, you would send him packing just as fast as me. Almost like you sawing trees down for people and then turning around and paying those people for letting you do it, I don't think so.
 
No Brad, your not so lucky. I'd like to see this thread cease but in order to do so someone has to give up, its not gonna be me, sorry.

LOL, I agree Tom, I'd like this thread to stop, cause it's wasting so much of my dam time. And I just can't stay away, LOL.

No Rope, I'm saying if they came in hollering and expecting something for nothing to go make a buck I would send them packing fast. Take note I've said many times if the person who bought the saw brought the entire saw in with a complaint, not the modder, fully assembled, then notta a problem, I fix it, not the modder. Thats how it works in the real world no matter where you go.

I like the way you operate Tommy. I'm a auto tech, we've had people come in and say, you fixed my car, then later something went wrong with it, I took it somewhere else and had it fixed, and now I want you to pay the bill?? ha ha ha LOL LOL, their lucky I'm not on the front counter, because I'm not so diplomatic with this kinda stuff. If you would have just brought it back to us in the first place we would of gladly taken care of it if it was the fault of ours. Not for some other party to decide. The warranty is with us and no other. I'd tell them to take a trip to fcukity off land!!!
 
No Brad, your not so lucky. I'd like to see this thread cease but in order to do so someone has to give up, its not gonna be me, sorry.

Now it makes sense...logic and common sense be damned, whoever posts last wins!
 
I just can't help but thinking that a contributing factor to the rod failing is the rod being stretched and stressed due to being run at rpm's for long periods of time that it wasn't designed for, happens in auto's doesn't it, couldn't it be a contributing factor in this instance. A guy just has to accept that as a risk when exceeding the design limits of anything that sees that kind of inertial force/stress applied to it. Isn't it only reasonable that it would weaken?
 
I just can't help but thinking that a contributing factor to the rod failing is the rod being stretched and stressed due to being run at rpm's for long periods of time that it wasn't designed for, happens in auto's doesn't it, couldn't it be a contributing factor in this instance. A guy just has to accept that as a risk when exceeding the design limits of anything that sees that kind of inertial force/stress applied to it. Isn't it only reasonable that it would weaken?

Maybe, but nothing can be proved. I would think the rod would snap before it would stretch.
 
Maybe, but nothing can be proved. I would think the rod would snap before it would stretch.

It's going to have to streach before it reaches the yield point and starts to fatigue and fracture.

Rods have been pushed much further than brad pushed that 180 and have held up fine. No doubt though, more RPM is more tensil force on the rod at TDC.
 

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