Cylinder plating separation

[spuldup]

I recently rebuild my MS 360 top end using a Hyway jug and pop-up piston/caber rings. Ran the new top end for about 8 tanks, but it never really woke up. Compression did not feel high enough. I checked squish and it was .060 so I milled the cylinder plate and planned to do a base gasket delete to reach ~.020. While I was in there I figure I'll try cleaning up and smoothing the ports. I have done back end exhaust and muffler work on other saws but this was my first time working inside the cylinder with a fordam type tool. Not trying to change timing, just smoothing and widening. Well somehow the plating came delaminated from the aluminum. I was going easy on it and am not sure how this may have happened (theories are welcome here). The photo is not excellent, but there is about 1/16" of plating that can be seem separated from the aluminum. Can I open the port a bit to get back into the connected plating or is this jug now trash? Thanks for reading, folks.

 

[cus_deluxe]

hard to tell from just that pic but raising intake roof can lead to ring ends getting into the port, then you snag a ring. no good reason to grind on the top of the intake port other than cleaning up casting. what happened to the original cylinder?

 

[spuldup]

@cus_deluxe thanks for responding. I still have the original OEM Mahle cylinder which has cut probably 200 cords of wood. It was my dad's saw I got when he passed. It is not scored and the bore measures OK. Was hoping to keep this hyway simply because it is new and I've put time into it. But if taking 1/16" means higher chance of ring snag, I wouldn't want to risk that.

 

[cus_deluxe]

youll make more power with the original cylinder. but if ur only goin up 1/16” that wont be an issue since it sounds like u already cut base by .040 or so. what i would do is use a diamond/pink stone ball to feather back from the chipped plating, that will hopefully help keep it from peeling further, but AM cylinders are pretty well known for this very thing.

 

[spuldup]

Thank you sir. I'm going clean up and have a good look at the OE cylinder.

Why do you say OE will make more power? Just curious.

 

[cus_deluxe]

typically oems put much more thought and effort into their cylinders. better port shapes and sizes, better casting, etc. hyway are typically pretty decent as far as AM goes, but almost every time oem is gonna be better

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

Clean and inspect the OEM cylinder. If the plating looks good give it a light hone with a 240 grit aluminum oxide abrasive ball hone. New OEM rings and you’ll be good to go.

 

[spuldup]

I was wondering about the hone. Do I need one specific for 48mm? Look to cost about $50. And on the rings, do they need replaced since only used for a month? They are Caber brand.

 

[grizz55chev]

Clean and inspect the OEM cylinder. If the plating looks good give it a light hone with a 240 grit aluminum oxide abrasive ball hone. New OEM rings and you’ll be good to go.

Honing Mikhail is not needed nor recommended, according to my sources. Edit: nikasil, Damn spell check, lol!

 

[cus_deluxe]

do not hone plated cylinders.

 

[cus_deluxe]

hit it with a scotchbrite ball or somethin if needed. way too easy to hone right through a couple thousandths of plating

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

Honing Mikhail is not needed nor recommended, according to my sources.

I’ve done it many times with no I’ll effect. Helps the ring(s) break in, also improves ring seal because the texture holds oil. I’m talking like five or six strokes with a ball hone. Not gonna take a bunch of material off, just deglazing the cylinder and adding some texture.

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

I was wondering about the hone. Do I need one specific for 48mm? Look to cost about $50. And on the rings, do they need replaced since only used for a month? They are Caber brand.

Go to brushresearch.com and look at their ball hones. It will need to be 48mm and you want 240 grit aluminum oxide abrasive as I mentioned before. Use an appropriately sized container and either diesel or kerosene as a lubricant. You want the cylinder partially submerged. This will improve surface finish and help flush away any dirt and grit. Gonna be a little smelly but it’s important to keep everything lubricated while honing. You could use penetrating oil but you’ll really have to hose everything down good. Definitely replace the rings. The old ones have already conformed to the cylinder after month of use.

 

[cus_deluxe]

fabu

Go to brushresearch.com and look at their ball hones. It will need to be 48mm and you want 240 grit aluminum oxide abrasive as I mentioned before. Use an appropriately sized container and either diesel or kerosene as a lubricant. You want the cylinder partially submerged. This will improve surface finish and help flush away any dirt and grit. Gonna be a little smelly but it’s important to keep everything lubricated while honing. You could use penetrating oil but you’ll really have to hose everything down good. Definitely replace the rings. The old ones have already conformed to the cylinder after month of use.

thats stupid, DO NOT HONE plated cylinders. thats bad advice. a piece of emery cloth in a split mandrel or scotchbrite will accomplish the same thing without stripping the plating.

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

fabu

thats stupid, DO NOT HONE plated cylinders. thats bad advice. a piece of emery cloth in a split mandrel or scotchbrite will accomplish the same thing without stripping the plating.

A couple passes with a ball hone will not “strip the plating”. Don’t know where your getting your information from but it’s wrong period.

 

[cus_deluxe]

A couple passes with a ball hone will not “strip the plating”. Don’t know where your getting your information from but it’s wrong period.

 

[cus_deluxe]

the same fuggin site you reccommended. idiot.

 

[ballisticdoughnut]

the same fuggin site you reccommended. idiot.

Wow your stupid. It states CLEARLY if the plating is damaged not to use a hone. Why would you hone a cylinder if the plating is damaged to begin with. Go take a nap and let the people who know what they’re talking about have a conversation.

 

[cus_deluxe]

good luck @spuldup , im done w this thread. sounds like ballisticbutthole has you covered.

 

[cookies]

I have honed many saw cylinders for new ring installs, instantly seats the rings. I simply dip the brush in 5w-30 and run it through the cylinder a couple times and it comes out perfect. No more 10 tanks to break in crap, no more waiting for ring edges to finally wear in and seal no need to use beveled edged caber rings. Install oem and your ready to go.
Like it says plain as day...Do not use on damaged coatings.