Disparaging Remarks

[bottlefed89]

Koa.. I'd like to see a pic of all you equip some time, sounds like you have a lot of neat toys..
Back to topic, I hate it as well. I added mowing a few years ago when we weren't staying busy, and I needed to keep help doing something. we mow about 48 yards, generally just on Thursdays and Fridays. 3 guys. We mow for a machine shop, the guy is a good buddy, so we only charge $30/mow. It is my cheapest account. It normally takes us 4 minutes to mow, trim and blow everything off, then about 15 minutes for him to rant about how I have it made, he wishes he was young so he could make all that money...
I also have an uncle that work for my pops in a warehouse that always has a comment about how he wishes he could play outside all day, or something of the like.

I should invite them to shadow me for a week, I think that'd fix em. I recently began a huge firewood endeavor, it's taking a lot of my money, and I leave the house at about 4am and get home at 10-11pm. Wish everyone could have it as easy as us...

 

[Tio]

What are you talking about? I love to pull brush and haul logs.
Problem is my groundman loves it too.

*Talking to puppy voice*

Awwwwww. . . look! It's so cute!

I want one!

Truth is. . . a lot of times my 1845 is just too much for the job.

What kind of lifting capacity on that little sweetie?

How high?

Can I have it?

 

[bottlefed89]

Yeah, I've got a skidsteer, even when it's not too big, it is a pain to take..

 

[Koa Man]

Tio,
It has a 700 lb. lifting cap. to full height, which is about 69 inches. We use it to machine feed the chipper, makes it at least 5 times faster than feeding by hand. Big advantage of this machine is we can haul it around on the back of a full size pickup and it does not tear up lawns at all, even when making the tightest turns the machine is capable of. I have even run it on fine lawns 2 hours after the sprinklers shut off with no problem. I love that machine. It will run hard all day on 4 gal. of diesel. If you got brush to drag a 100 ft. or more, 8 groundmen will not be able to keep up with 2 groundmen and that machine.

 

[Tio]

Yeah, I've got a skidsteer, even when it's not too big, it is a pain to take..

Yep.

That little honey looks like it ain't too much of a pain to tag along though.

Ekka has one kind of like that one.

I am awful curious about them little honeys.

 

[Tio]

Koa,

That is a sweet little machine.

If I could justify the cost, I would be having me one of them right now. . . today!

What kind of attachments will it take?

Small shear?

Post hole digger?

Bucket?

*edit*

Looking at them now.

 

[hugashe]

I'm looking at getting a Toro-Dingo let me know what you all think.

 

[Koa Man]

Any attachment that has a universal mini skid mount can be placed on that machine. I have a trencher, standard and 4/1 buckets, pallet forks, stump grinder, grapple, tow hitch (great to move the trailer and chipper around), and rippers. There are about 50 different attachments you can put on it.

hugashe,
get a Boxer or Thomas. Thomas probably most bang for the buck. Boxer for great versatility (variably track width and greater lift and height than the Dingo. All the mini skids will tear up the lawn making turns.

 

[Tio]

Now... I don't know why the word irony comes to mind here.

I started out whining about how most of these folks who hire us to do a job, sort of look down on us because we are some kind of simpletons or something.

Everything is going along just fine. . . b**ching an' all...

AND THEN (drum roll please)

Along comes Koa with a picture of a pretty.

Now all of a sudden I am googling this little sucker and going OOOOHHHH and AHHHHHH!

*laughs at self*

It occurs to me... maybe I ain't so smart after all.

Hey look!

A shiny. . .

*wanders of into the woods*

 

[frashdog]

oh it's definitely tough work, but you have to remember WE do it because we are getting paid good for it. there's no way i'd do the same work for the standard hourly rate groundies get.

one of my groundies recently tried my spikes. we had to take off a big awkward branch. he couldn't get past the 2nd step up and said F this, it's scary. so i went up and did it myself and took the branch down in a few minutes. afterwards i said to him, "would you have done that for $150?". he said "hell ya, even if i had to monkey climb that sucker." i said, "well now you know why i went up there."

OK so you're gonna send up a groundie (at you're groundie pay) on spikes to prune?? Nice....

Quote:
Originally Posted by frashdog
I'm sorry, that is for clouding you're thread with off topic trash.
.


hey Frashdog, i accept your apology too !!!

yea, I'm sorry bro.... but you're the off topic trash. Actually maybe you should start a trash company too. I like the sounds of trashinator...$500 a trashcan

No pics yet huh

 

[buff]

I just do not see how anyone in the tree business can say that they get stumps taken with axes for $20.

 

[Ekka]

I quoted a customer once $60 to grind a stump out, they were flabberghasted

Then asked how much less it would be if I dug it out.

The customers have little regard for your health. They often treat you as a machine not a human.

I've had easily felled palms with huge fat heads being argued for a block down, the customer thinks unless you are busted they haven't got value for money. The easier you make it look the more ripped off they feel.

"I can simply fell it here and cut it up, no worries" response, "but I'd prefer you go up there and cut it up in bits, isn't that what you are supposed to do?"

Sometimes I tell them how I will do the job, other times not, you have to read the people well. Then (like Koa) you bring in the mini loader and smash the job in no time ... well, they can get the chits. Be careful, and remember that satisfying the customer comes from their perspective not yours ... so sell the job after you're done too.

If you whipped it in no time sell them the professionalism, knowledge, equipment factor that made it look quick and easy, and let them know that they were wise in their choice of choosing you over unequipped incompetance that may have torn their yard up and left them with inconvenience for hours or days longer.

 

[Treeinnovator]

I quoted a customer once $60 to grind a stump out, they were flabberghasted

Then asked how much less it would be if I dug it out.

The customers have little regard for your health. They often treat you as a machine not a human.

I've had easily felled palms with huge fat heads being argued for a block down, the customer thinks unless you are busted they haven't got value for money. The easier you make it look the more ripped off they feel.

"I can simply fell it here and cut it up, no worries" response, "but I'd prefer you go up there and cut it up in bits, isn't that what you are supposed to do?"

Sometimes I tell them how I will do the job, other times not, you have to read the people well. Then (like Koa) you bring in the mini loader and smash the job in no time ... well, they can get the chits. Be careful, and remember that satisfying the customer comes from their perspective not yours ... so sell the job after you're done too.

If you whipped it in no time sell them the professionalism, knowledge, equipment factor that made it look quick and easy, and let them know that they were wise in their choice of choosing you over unequipped incompetance that may have torn their yard up and left them with inconvenience for hours or days longer.

well said Ekka.

i usually go into a whole song and dance about how hard it will be to climb up and piece it all out with rigging, etc. then i come by during the week (intentionally) while they're at work and take the whole tree down in one cut, chop it up, and haul it away. when they come home they go, "wow, he actually climbed up there and did all he said he was going to do."

if they only knew ...lol

 

[Treeinnovator]

OK so you're gonna send up a groundie (at you're groundie pay) on spikes to prune?? Nice....

No pics yet huh

yes i send up the groundies. how else will they learn if you don't send 'em up.

here's your pic.... see attached

 

[BostonBull]

yes i send up the groundies. how else will they learn if you don't send 'em up.

here's your pic.... see attached

You never cease to amaze me. I hope you dont have a family, or if you do I hope everything you say you do is all a lie because with your comments,if they are true your family will miss you. You seem like a very unsafe/unprofessional worker.

Spikes on prunings? :bang:

 

[frashdog]

Quote:
Originally Posted by frashdog
OK so you're gonna send up a groundie (at you're groundie pay) on spikes to prune?? Nice....

No pics yet huh


yes i send up the groundies. how else will they learn if you don't send 'em up.

here's your pic.... see attached

dude I'll give it up....that's funny.

 

[beowulf343]

well said Ekka.

i usually go into a whole song and dance about how hard it will be to climb up and piece it all out with rigging, etc. then i come by during the week (intentionally) while they're at work and take the whole tree down in one cut, chop it up, and haul it away. when they come home they go, "wow, he actually climbed up there and did all he said he was going to do."

if they only knew ...lol

The problem with this is that usually when I take down a tree, I get neighbors watching what's going on. You can be sure they will sooner or later discuss the job with the homeowner. If I did it differently than I originally told the homeowner, they are going to feel they got ripped off and there goes your reputation. Granted, there are exceptions, but if I say I have to climb a tree, I climb it. And if it is just an easy drop and drag job, well I let them know that too.

Now onto letting groundies climb. My problem with your method is that you let them climb after only a couple days of tree work. They don't know their knots, rigging methods, how to run their crapsman, etc. I am a fan of keeping a groundie on the ground for at least a year before starting to climb. Yes, actually climbing can be a good way to learn, but if they've been on the ground for an extended period of time, they can learn alot just by watching. I started climbing after only three months on the ground, and looking back I realize I made alot of stupid mistakes that could have been avoided if I had watched how someone else handled problems in a tree. Don't get me wrong, just going out and climbing is a good way to learn, but why not save your groundies some headaches and let them learn from someone else's mistakes. (and considering who I'm talking to, they'd probably learn alot from your mistakes)

 

[frashdog]

I quoted a customer once $60 to grind a stump out, they were flabberghasted

Then asked how much less it would be if I dug it out.

The customers have little regard for your health. They often treat you as a machine not a human.

I've had easily felled palms with huge fat heads being argued for a block down, the customer thinks unless you are busted they haven't got value for money. The easier you make it look the more ripped off they feel.

"I can simply fell it here and cut it up, no worries" response, "but I'd prefer you go up there and cut it up in bits, isn't that what you are supposed to do?"

Sometimes I tell them how I will do the job, other times not, you have to read the people well. Then (like Koa) you bring in the mini loader and smash the job in no time ... well, they can get the chits. Be careful, and remember that satisfying the customer comes from their perspective not yours ... so sell the job after you're done too.

If you whipped it in no time sell them the professionalism, knowledge, equipment factor that made it look quick and easy, and let them know that they were wise in their choice of choosing you over unequipped incompetance that may have torn their yard up and left them with inconvenience for hours or days longer.

Ekka, so true. Perspective sells, if you look like a pro (which you do on your vids) it get is soo much easier.

When I first started a customer handed us a $500+ check and said, " you can get alot of pizzas for that huh?". We looked like college kids with a beat up old truck. Now we show up with a nice F-350 diesel, decent chipper and tucked inshirts. Helps for the respect part. The proof is when the customer rounds the price up or say's something like you guys do good work, or if you need a refrence don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Treeinnovator]

I am a fan of keeping a groundie on the ground for at least a year before starting to climb.

I started climbing after only three months on the ground, and looking back I realize I made alot of stupid mistakes that could have been avoided if I had watched how someone else handled problems in a tree.

1) a year??? lololol... christ, i can't keep workers for more than a couple of months before they get burnt out or get a better jobs. i'm sure we can all agree that one of the hardest parts of our industry is the employee's dependability.

2) man, i must really be running things backwards from the rest of you guys. i started from day one climbing. why, cuz i had to in order to get paid by the customer. i got INC'ed, bought insurance, and a stumpgrinder in one week and started knocking on doors. that's how i got into the biz. there was no one else to do the work to learn from. i learned how to cut wedges and take down trees from the little instruction booklet that comes with a brand new chainsaw. i learned how to use spikes and harness from the tree supply shop's salesman.

so i guess what i'm saying, is that i think several months being a groundie is wasted time. he could be climbing instead if shown a few quick tricks.

 

[buff]

None of the rest of you who are criticizing this guy for putting climbers in the trees right away spent a year pulling limbs and grunting over chunks. If you did it is because you were grunts whose employer did not plan on training as a climber. I want you guys to quit this going back and forth.