Do particularly dangerous jobs make you grumpy?

[jomoco]

I woke this morning with a very grumpy attitude, got unjustifiaby snide responding to Thillmaine's excellent thread on dueling cranes and OSHA, and in a very general sense was a complete jerk until I got today's job safely on the ground and cut up. It wasn't until I left the job waving at very happy clients that I realized that risking my life makes me downright grumpy.

It was a moderately large dead kellogg oak in the laguna mountains east of here.

Because the tree had a spiderweb of power, phone and cable lines restricting my safe DZ to less than 90 degrees, rigging off the dead tree was a must.

I knew the tree was hollow and full of aged silver hangers and branches that had clearly died 3-4 years brfore this tree died a couple years ago.

It was a case of dead and deader above utility drops. The only advantage this nightmare removal offered me was a lean over the pole and drops I wanted to avoid. That may sound crazy, but it isnt to me.

Knowing I had to rig this tree(no crane access) and wanting to exert the bare minimum of shock loading on it meant the preferred loading stress would be 180 degrees off the lean over the pole, exactly where my 75 degrees of DZ was. This is the direction I speedlined the entire tree that wasn't cut and chucked that way by hand.

When I'm doing dead trees I think of myself as a spider tiptoeing up the tree trying not to jar it whatsoever until serious weight has been removed from the leader that I am tied into, to me that means cutting and chucking in small pieces atleast 3 times my body and gear weight.

In this tree I cut and chucked all the hangers after tying them to the tree. Once this was done the speedlining went smoothly with all dynamic forces applied away from the lean.

Once I had a 70 foot fat stick left in the air, I tied a bull line to it, came down, locked the hubs on my old 84 toy 4X4 climbed up the hill about 90 feet away from the stick, tied my front G eye hitch off to a big ponderosa pine, played my 12K pound winch line off the back of the tooltruck about 30 feet to the bull line.

The stick stood straight up nicely and fell precisely inline with the winch line with me cutting with a 394 husky, and my buddy on my truck's winch control.

And despite being bitten about 20 times by the fire ant colony in the hollow base of the tree, I left the job wondering if potential danger to me as a climber makes me so serious that I turn into a knit picking tyrant who needs to chill out?

I don't think so, I think it has kept me alive for 34 years in this biz. All I can do is apologize after I come out of my trance.

What do you guys think?

Do dangerous trees affect any of you this way?

Are you too tyrants about your means and methods when it's your azzes up there on the end of a line?

I know it makes my dinner and beer taste a little better than usual tonight.

jomoco

 

[Ghillie]

I would have to agree with you.

I try to joke with the guys that I work with, both at the department and in my business of trimming/removing trees. But when I am truly concerned that something can go wrong and myself or (far worse to me) someone else getting hurt, I get very "focused" and do not find humor in much at all.

I can completely relate to being "nit-picky" about everything. I wouldn't call it a trance though. It is like mmy mind is racing through all the possible outcomes of every decision or act that is made and weighing the worst case scenario.

Be safe,

Fred

Edit: and most guys that have seen me in this "mode" wait until I crack a smile again before calling me an a$$hole!

 

[jomoco]

I would have to agree with you.

I try to joke with the guys that I work with, both at the department and in my business of trimming/removing trees. But when I am truly concerned that something can go wrong and myself or (far worse to me) someone else getting hurt, I get very "focused" and do not find humor in much at all.

I can completely relate to being "nit-picky" about everything. I wouldn't call it a trance though. It is like mmy mind is racing through all the possible outcomes of every decision or act that is made and weighing the worst case scenario.

Be safe,

Fred


Edit: and most guys that have seen me in this "mode" wait until I crack a smile again before calling me an a$$hole!

That's funny Fred, in that I inform every newbie I work with that I'm a complete azzhole on the job, and as long as they remember and do what I tell them to, we'll get along just fine.

I have fired more newbies than you can shake your saw at, and I did it for their own well being!

These days I prefer working with veteran crews that I've known for many years.

The older I get, the pickier I am.

jomoco

 

[046]

if it's too dangerous... it's simple... pass

 

[jomoco]

if it's too dangerous... it's simple... pass

Call me suicidal, but I've never taken a pass. Though I did request that the 3rd generation logger that owned the company I was subbing to in lake arrowhead drop a giant hollow coulter pine over a 3 story multi-million dollar mansion utilizing a boxcut to fell it on the lake's shoreline pulling it upright and over with a large tracked bobcat.

You can learn alot from pro tree fellers.

Someone has to do it, one way or another, that's why the pro's get paid big bucks to prove their professionalism on nasty jobs that others walk away from.

Though I confess, it does make me a bit grumpy on certain jobs.

jomoco

 

[Burvol]

Ya, I can get grumpy. Like today for instance. At work I get paid to cut what is in my strip and do it in a timely, proffesional manner, no matter what is in there. I am the one who will cut it.

Today, a friend of mine's neighbor asked me to come over on my day off to cut some trees, no biggie. A bunch of thinning in some small Doug Fir (12-18" DBH & 80-100 ft tall) and two hazard trees. The one was a really bad jello White Fir that was about 80 feet tall and rotten all the way down, forked in between two big branches on a really tall Doug Fir. Long sory short, I got it down, finished all the thinning and bucking, then the dude tells me he doesn't have any duckets for me. WTF? All this crap, an hour drive, and on my day off? I even went and looked at the job last Saturday. He knew for a whole week I was coming. Some people are scammers, and he is not the kind of guy that would survive a hard sock in the face. I just let it go, not even raising my voice. Another re-enforcement of my belief that working folks treat people like people more so than people with a lot of money that really don't work. We would give all we have to pay for someone's services, especially ones that can make you dead really quick.

 

[jomoco]

Ya, I can get grumpy. Like today for instance. At work I get paid to cut what is in my strip and do it in a timely, proffesional manner, no matter what is in there. I am the one who will cut it.

Today, a friend of mine's neighbor asked me to come over on my day off to cut some trees, no biggie. A bunch of thinning in some small Doug Fir (12-18" DBH & 80-100 ft tall) and two hazard trees. The one was a really bad jello White Fir that was about 80 feet tall and rotten all the way down, forked in between two big branches on a really tall Doug Fir. Long sory short, I got it down, finished all the thinning and bucking, then the dude tells me he doesn't have any duckets for me. WTF? All this crap, an hour drive, and on my day off? I even went and looked at the job last Saturday. He knew for a whole week I was coming. Some people are scammers, and he is not the kind of guy that would survive a hard sock in the face. I just let it go, not even raising my voice. Another re-enforcement of my belief that working folks treat people like people more so than people with a lot of money that really don't work. We would give all we have to pay for someone's services, especially ones that can make you dead really quick.

Amen brother!

These are the people that won't look you in the eye.

jomoco

 

[Ghillie]

That's funny Fred, in that I inform every newbie I work with that I'm a complete azzhole on the job, and as long as they remember and do what I tell them to, we'll get along just fine.

I have fired more newbies than you can shake your saw at, and I did it for their own well being!

These days I prefer working with veteran crews that I've known for many years.

The older I get, the pickier I am.

jomoco

The pickier I am...... The older I get!

 

[randyg]

In The Zone

My wife says "He's in a tree, just leave him alone" when I'm right in the room with them. Third peson, like I'm invisible or something. To me its like playing 30 moves ahead in a game of chess, then back to square one, then 30 moves ahead again. Interrupt me on move 27 and I have to go back to square one again?

When the risk goes up, the price doesn't seem to go up accordingly. That is what makes me cross. I feel like I'm selling myself short, and have no one to blame but me. Anyone relate to that?????

 

[TimberMcPherson]

yeah I get grumpy on the dangerous jobs, well im more sensitive to stuff that I would normally have no problem with. I guess its a case of taking things seriously and only wanting to concentrate on getting it done safe and smooth. I still make the odd joke etc, but its just to relieve tension.

I think its quite natural.

 

[senechal]

This is compounded by sales staff not properly preparing crews for said trees.

Work order says "Remove 1 Green Ash at back left of property":
You leave the shop with the usual gear and show up to the job site to see a very large hazard tree in proximity to primary, no lift or crane access, leaning over a house, with few rigging points, etc. Chances are it's under quoted for time, pile that on with risking your life and you have one very grumpy crew.

 

[treevet]

For the first 20 years I would usually get drunk and/or stoned the night before a big nasty. These last 20 years (total sobriety) I generally put the night and sometimes the day before into total planning and staging equipment and sharpening. Both give a sense of calm during the job but the latter makes for a much easier life.

In either case I agree on the grumpy factor at home and during the job with the gm. If 2 of them they better not be talking or grabassing and give me their devoted attention. No ciggs in the mouth while lowering, no cell phones not on buzz. If I am going to die it is not because they were distracted and their smoke fell on their jacket or their sweety called and they didn't let the line run.

Other days I love to bust each others balls for laughs.

 

[treevet]

An after thought to Jomoco's initial post.....I never feel more alive than just after finishing a death defying removal. Most people will go thru their entire lives without feeling that.

 

[D Mc]

The life and death factor of tree work is where it is at. It is what got me started in the business. I noticed after the completion of every job which pushed me to the limits of my courage, that I appreciated the world around me to a much greater extent. It is a challenge of physical and mental complexities and you must be up for the task to survive.

I must confess I had to ask my wife, do I get grumpy before a dangerous job? She said no. I get "quiet, determined and focused." Which is what I thought but I know sometimes a focused state could be interpretted as grumpy because you are not as responsive as normal.

I do know when things go really bad I have this bad reflex of smiling at totally inappropriate times. Can freak people out. I don't know why I do this, it is not malicious...it just happens.

I also agree with you, Jomoco, on moving like a spider on a dead tree. I also prefer to chunk a substantial amount of weight off of a dead tree prior to lowering.

There is a big difference now when I tackle a dangerous tree than when I was younger. Then I would climb anything, any time, anywhere. Got myself into a couple of situations I would have preferred not to be in. Now I can look at a tree with experience and know whether I am mentally AND physically capable of accomplishing the task in the manner I have chosen and if not, being able to recognise that and formulate a different plan, rather than just going forward in a bullheaded manner.

Dave

 

[Burvol]

An after thought to Jomoco's initial post.....I never feel more alive than just after finishing a death defying removal. Most people will go thru their entire lives without feeling that.

That's for sure, getting out of a hairy situations when falling timber makes one feel lighter in the steps he takes! Don't frickin' panic, when you push the panic button in a "Jackpot" as Bushler calls them, everything multiplies. Stay cool until it's time to make a move. Herky jerky freak out is bad. My twist on the old saying, "If you can't stand the heat, maybe you belong in a kitchen".

 

[pdqdl]

Ok, I'm a chicken

WOW! I can appreciate cranky, and also the need to work it out later.

That sounds like way too much dead for me to think about getting into. I don't do dead and dangerous, so as to avoid becoming that way myself. I could get more experience at it, and gain some confidence, but I consider the learning curve too steep.

I really respect those of you that are willing to take that risk, but I have always been able to figure out a way to do a nasty dead tree without putting my life on the line. I did that once, early in my career, and I haven't been back.

That often means I don't get the job at my price, but that hasn't killed me yet, either.

Just out of curiosity, since you were able to pull the tree trunk away from the lean, what was to keep you from pulling the whole tree (without any climbing or top removal) in the same fashion?

 

[jomoco]

WOW! I can appreciate cranky, and also the need to work it out later.

That sounds like way too much dead for me to think about getting into. I don't do dead and dangerous, so as to avoid becoming that way myself. I could get more experience at it, and gain some confidence, but I consider the learning curve too steep.

I really respect those of you that are willing to take that risk, but I have always been able to figure out a way to do a nasty dead tree without putting my life on the line. I did that once, early in my career, and I haven't been back.

That often means I don't get the job at my price, but that hasn't killed me yet, either.

Just out of curiosity, since you were able to pull the tree trunk away from the lean, what was to keep you from pulling the whole tree (without any climbing or top removal) in the same fashion?

The tree was far too tall and wide, between two cabins, as well as having it's lower limbs tangled in the utility drops Pdql.

When we winched the stick upright and over we had to land it between two ponderosa pines about 15 feet apart. The stick fractured in three different spots when it hit the hillside.

jomoco

 

[pdqdl]

I understand. Broke into 3 pieces, eh? That's why I don't climb those.

Some years back I loaned a saw to a competitor, and he brought it back at the end of the day, obviously crushed from a bad fall. It seems the whole tree broke in 1/2 and dropped his climber about 50' onto a sidewalk. The owner said his man landed on his back, and bounced so hard that he flopped upright, and then fell on his face. Ouch!

Apparently the climber was as broken up as the saw was. He applied for work at my business 6 months later, with a 50 lb. weight lifting restriction. Sadly, I could not work around that limitation.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

yes I too get cranky when dealing with a large and or dangerous takedown. I try to remember that my helpers are doing their best and don't want anything bad to happen either. I have little patience in situations like that though. But I try. I usually will think about the takedown for a few minutes from the ground and get in the zone and then just tell myself "One limb at a time". If I look at the big picture sometimes it can be overwhelming. But when I figuere out each piece one at a time it goes easy and before I know it I'm finished. Mentally exausting sometimes though...... Mike

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The tree was far too tall and wide, between two cabins, as well as having it's lower limbs tangled in the utility drops Pdql.

Service drops are manageable, have them disconnected. I'll intentionally work slower around them if the idiot primary contractor thought he could get away without scheduling it to be done. I've made them reschedule the work too, it is just not worth the cost if someone goofs up and takes out a mast or something worse.

I've has a few where the insulator on the house was held in by rotten wood, the lineman (troubleman) grabbing the line popped it out.

It is a PITA to coordinate multihouse disconnects, but at least it does not cost us anything but time here in the MKE metro area.

I walk from a few harry/scary jobs these days, sometimes they are just too big for what the client/contractor expect. "I cannot do that in one day?!?" I've said on more then one occasion. "I told you to get the those drops down last week!"

I've had a few where it required clearing out the biggest tree to rig smaller ones out from it before it could come down. I believe in leaving dampening mass on a rigging spar, it seems to make taking bigger pieces easier.

As for grumpy/focused, I agree, we all do it to some extent. I can remember night of poor sleep when I would have different rigging scenarios running through my head, it does not happen much anymore .

I think what it comes down to is why you get grumpy, if it just focus it is OK. If you feel that you do not need to do it any more, then waling away is the thing to do.