Do you ALWAYS pre install a climbing line on all take downs?

[newguy18]

I look at it like this by the time I have my climb line installed and my knot tied can be 20' of the ground in gaffs.When i reach the top I install it to go out on limbs and such and I coil my lowering line up and hang it off one of my dee rings.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

The standard as I know it is...

"Arborists shall use a second point of attachment (work-positioning lanyard or double-crotched rope) when operating chain saws in a tree, unless the employer demonstrates that a greater hazard is posed by using a second point of attachment while operating chain saws in that particular situation."

Who gave the seminar? What you posted here reads like two fliplines makes a secure position.

 

[Magnum783]

Thought of you guys today. Did a couple of spindly little pine removals that required some rigging and I wasn't so sure they would hold me and the weight and force of the piece so I went up tied into the tree next to me. This is weird because I normally don't but I hate pine trees and quite scared of them so I am always up for extra precautions. Just thought that I would post it up a here a a situation where a pre-positioned climbing line was needed. Also for you gear gurous or just really smart guys here is a question. I am up in this small pine and there is a much larger one really close but no branches close to where I am working how do I tie on to it. I just used a running bowline and SRTed it. Any ideas are helpful.
Jared

 

[AtlantaLawn.com]

yes.............

 

[treesquirrel]

Who gave the seminar? What you posted here reads like two fliplines makes a secure position.

The old standard is OK with two flips or a lanyard and flip, or two lanyards.

It was the mention of a new standard requiring the pre installed climbing system that came up. Not yet in writing as I understand it.

I do not know the genitalmans name. it was at our local Vermeer dealer. But he was very in touch with all the latest techniques and products.

 

[oldirty]

does he go by the name **** or richard?

 

[oldirty]

It has been my observation that people who routinely require high lines for removals are not comfortable on their spurs.

D Mc

makes alot of sense



oldirty

 

[treesquirrel]

does he go by the name **** or richard?

LMAO.....

Even though I have to give credit for an informative seminar this fella did know it all. The first hour of the thing was a recital of his resume'.

 

[Themadd1]

Vermeer salesmen as a trainer in safety and proper climbing technique?

Let me know if I can come down and spout off alot of knowledge then try to sell you something. He should stick to what he is employed to do and that is sell you equipment. Leave the training seminars to the certified and specialists.

When ever someone is trying to "sell" me something I always wonder what their underlying motives might be.

It's like saying the guy on the informercial you saw last night was educating you on proper biological control and then tries to sell you a vaccuum cleaner.

He might know a lot about biological control but why is he sticking his foot in about biological microbials in a foreign environment, anthrax as a toxic substance. Stick to the facts about the product and leave the informative presentation to the scientific community.

Sorry, I dont see any gain in safety to tie into a removal <evergreen> when the safest part of the tree is the trunk not branches you can throw a tip over. Especially in the winter. Those pines snap like twigs under to much pressure. Also there are more lines to keep track of while cutting on the way up. If you have a technique that is safe and works for you then use it.

:deadhorse: :deadhorse:

 

[treesquirrel]

Vermeer salesmen as a trainer in safety and proper climbing technique?

Let me know if I can come down and spout off alot of knowledge then try to sell you something. He should stick to what he is employed to do and that is sell you equipment. Leave the training seminars to the certified and specialists.

When ever someone is trying to "sell" me something I always wonder what their underlying motives might be.

It's like saying the guy on the informercial you saw last night was educating you on proper biological control and then tries to sell you a vaccuum cleaner.

He might know a lot about biological control but why is he sticking his foot in about biological microbials in a foreign environment, anthrax as a toxic substance. Stick to the facts about the product and leave the informative presentation to the scientific community.

Sorry, I dont see any gain in safety to tie into a removal <evergreen> when the safest part of the tree is the trunk not branches you can throw a tip over. Especially in the winter. Those pines snap like twigs under to much pressure. Also there are more lines to keep track of while cutting on the way up. If you have a technique that is safe and works for you then use it.

:deadhorse: :deadhorse:

I did not mean to imply a salesman gave the seminar. they hosted it but the seminar was conducted by tree professionals.

One of the instructors was from North American Tree service and was very knowledgeable. The big headed guy was from North American training institute I believe. Also smart but also very full of himself.

 

[(WLL)]

yea

i do consider my lanyard a climbing line(a line used to climb with)so when climbing i always pre install A climbing line. i also understand that 2 points of attachment is a good rule,and practice when cutting aloft. i only tie high when its appropriate, or benefiting anything else is a wast of time & effort

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

i do consider my lanyard a climbing line(a line used to climb with)so when

Same here, that is why mine is 18 ft long.

 

[Rftreeman]

this was way before the steel flip line but I was taught to climb to the very top, tie in and drop to the bottom and start stripping it out and hunching back up to the top and blow out the top and work back down blocking it but do i do it that way now, heck no that was 20 years ago and 90 pounds lighter, I'm a big guy now and weigh 270 so there ain't a lot of hunching going on, at least not in the trees that is. I start from the bottom with my climbing line and flip buck strap and work my way up popping limbs off and back down blocking being sure not to forget to leave a stub so I can repel down, usually by the time I'm done my legs are to sore to climb back down.......lol....it sucks being fat.

the only time I'll climb to the top first is if there will be some rigging going on.

oh yeah, I have never pre installed a line on take downs but a few times on really large diameter trees where it is hard to flip my rope and strap.

 

[ropensaddle]

I understood at this seminar that this new standard is coming soon so possibly the jury is still out on it.

That is one reason I wanted to start this discussion.

I know for a fact some of the instructors at the seminar are AS members who will hopefully chime in here.

I'm all about reasonable standards but this seems a stretch. Next thing will be that no work can be performed aloft unless from a bucket truck.

We need to exercise maximum personal responsibility and keep the detailed/dictated standards at a reasonable level.

Like someone said above, I find most ANSI rules very realistic but this one seems a bit far reaching. I'd like its feasibility severely debated before becoming gospel.

Yeah kinda like the time I was at an osha meeting the instructor
which I am fairly sure had never been more than two feet off the
ground in his life said no climbing out of a bucket! I asked him why,
he said cause you would not be tied in! I then explained that I installed
my climb line at full reach with jameson poles while bucked in to the
bucket;then tied in and unbucked from the bucket! He then said
oh but you are not in a harness I said no my saddle he was unsure
how to rule and I said I felt safer climbing out of the bucket than
from the ground and saved time ,energy and that I would continue
to climb out when necessary. These guy's mean well but they got
all their info from books none from experience just my thoughts.

 

[newguy18]

kinda like the guys who say theres no need to one hand.you can tell they've never worked in a tree.

 

[Rftreeman]

these OSHA & ANSI people need to come work with me for a week, maybe I can put some sense in to them....................................NOT.............

 

[newguy18]

they'd cringe watching me one hand my 51.its only got a little 20" bar on it.Thats why i don't have a tophandled saw because i'd one hand it through every limb.

 

[Rftreeman]

I remember when saws had no chain brakes and was trained to one hand saws, that was just the norm then.

 

[newguy18]

Its pretty much an everyday thing for me too but with that size of a saw i don't do it as often as I would with a top handle saw.

 

[ropensaddle]

Its pretty much an everyday thing for me too but with that size of a saw i don't do it as often as I would with a top handle saw.

Wait till ya do it with a 2101