Driving trees?

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HorseFaller

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I keep hearing that certain timber owners or maybe L&I says its strictly forbidden. I see everyone do it all the time. I do it, love to do it any insite would be great. I should add I also am not a commercial faller so I don't work for any timber company's, it's all private.
 
I do it when I have to or when it makes sense to. Basically everything is frowned upon by someone. Say... cutting off half of the hinge for instance. Cleaning up the mess can be a real ##### when you're driving a few.
 
I heard from the last timber company meeting that they are cracking down on alot of things. I heard of two truck drivers got out without hard hats on... sent home. One shovel operator climbed down to take a buisness of two, no hardhat on sent... sent home. There are also three fallers I heard that where chewed out for driving trees and are on the the verge of being banned from there farms.
 
Depending on the situation, its can be pretty risky, for instance if you are pushing a tree over that wants to fall onto you and the driving tree, while you are there cutting the driving tree. I've done it and do it and have several videos of doing it, but that doesn't make it very smart ...... like a lot of things, you look cool when it all goes good, but if something goes bad you are running really quick or seriously injured or dead.

Based on my "seat of the pants meter" of the risk involved, and what skills and experience you should have, I would highly recommend those that don't cut a lot ..... like in the thousands of trees range, to not do it, because its really not worth it, if things do go bad, and you need to have the skills and experience to know when, where, how and why things might go bad, and then at that point you have to watch two or more tree tops, while cutting the drive tree.

Its one of those things that the best outcome, sure pales in comparison to just a mild screw up, much less, an epic fail.

I never knew it was "illegal", who says its illegal?

Thats my opinion of it,

Sam
 
I realize the risk... done it wrong done it great. They do state that it's okay if needed to difuse danger trees. I won't name names but it ends in fiber. I use a drive some small some big with alot of hardwood. They never grow straight or are always in the way. Is there any other reason then they came to dangerous.
 
Slamm is saying it right.

the thing is, if and or when things don't go right, the consequences can be huge. big difference between pushing over a dead snag leaning into your strip and driving every third tree. If you're having to drive, or wedge, that much, you probably decided to lay your timber the wrong direction anyhow.

Consider one scenario, the tree your driving busts off its hinge and the butt sails downslope and the top comes back at you. Where you gonna run to know? The unexpected, thats why its dangerous.
 
Never heard it called "driving".

We call it "domino".

I have a friend who is a full time logger, has been for the last 25 years...he is famous for it..
I have seen him domino as much as 40 pines.

I only do it (did it) when there was no help from the skidder available and they needed to all go opposite of the natural lean. Find the one tree that leans the right way and is large enough...bang, 3 hitches on the ground.
 
...I never knew it was "illegal", who says its illegal?

OSHA says...

Title: Logging Operations

Paragraph (h)(1)(ix) -- Domino Felling

The final rule prohibits domino felling. OSHA defined domino felling in the final rule as "[t]he partial cutting of `multiple trees' which are left standing and then `pushed over with a pusher tree'." In the preamble OSHA explained that domino felling was a method of attempting to fell a line or row of trees by partially cutting the trees and then pushing the end tree into the others, thereby creating a domino falling effect. (59 FR 51699, 51724). There was considerable evidence in the rulemaking record that such a method of felling a group of trees is extremely dangerous because there is greater likelihood the line of trees will not fall in the intended direction or may not fall completely, thereby creating even greater hazards (Ex. 5-42, 5-46; Tr. W2 231, OR 659). The hazards associated with domino felling are further increased where a danger tree is among the line or row of trees to be felled using this chain reaction method. Therefore, OSHA emphasized that danger trees also could not be felled using domino felling.

After publication, OSHA was requested to further clarify whether the felling of a single danger tree by felling another single tree into it is prohibited under the final rule. The final rule does not prohibit this practice in all cases, since the definition of domino felling in the final rule does not include the felling of a single tree with another tree. The domino felling that is prohibited in the final rule is the felling of multiple trees with a pusher tree. OSHA is revising the final rule to identify practices which are not considered to be domino felling, and therefore, are not prohibited by the standard.

However, the practice of felling a danger tree by felling another one into it, while it is not prohibited, is not automatically permitted to be used whenever a danger tree is felled. Paragraph (h)(1)(vii) of the final rule also requires that where a danger tree is felled or removed, the feller must use a technique that minimizes employee exposure to the hazard. In some cases, felling a danger tree by felling another tree into it will not minimize employee exposure to the hazards, and may even increase the risk the feller faces in removing the danger tree. As OSHA pointed out in the preamble, commenters told OSHA that felling a danger tree by felling another one into it is a safe technique when used by an experienced feller, but only "in certain situations" (Ex. 5-74 through 5-92). Other commenters told OSHA that this technique is generally not considered safe practice (Ex. 5-42, 5-46). In clarifying that this technique is not prohibited under the final rule, OSHA is permitting that a danger tree be felled in this manner only where a careful examination of mechanical techniques is first made and where it is also determined that the hazards felling the danger tree in this manner can be sufficiently minimized. The revised compliance directive notes that felling a danger tree by this method does not always minimize employee exposure to the hazard under paragraph (h)(1)(vii), and emphasizes that a safer method to remove a danger tree is to pull the tree down with a skidder or mechanical feller (Ex. 5-43).

Above from...
Logging Operations - 60:47022-47037
 
Green wedging works just fine. The companies get pissed about the fiber pull that tends to go with it. I'll do it it ####ty timber, little lodgepole all leaing up the hill type strips, but it's not a good thing to be doing in nice timber. Especially if the big boss is getting paid by the thousand. If it's ####, and paid for by the ton....#### 'em.
#### OSHA.

Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam
 
Thank you for the clear up on the "who said it was illegal" question.

I agree with OSHA on the dangers of this felling method, as there is an involute curve of dangers added when you drop additional trees with that one last cut of one tree, but sometimes things are done. A timber cutter is a dangerous job and risks are taken, when you get good at your job you can in many cases, perform higher risk tasks without inherently incurring a higher rate of danger or fail rate, as the experienced worker offsets these additional risks or dangers with additional skill and experience.

Long and short of it, its a gamble, like anything in life. If you're good, its fast and fun, if your not good, well things can get ugly and at times you just flat loose. In the last 3-4 years I've had 8 guys cut for me, I would only allow 3 of them domino trees and feel comfortable that everything was going to be okay, and these 3 are experienced enough to know they don't need to ask my permission, but they have cut 1,000's and 1,000's of trees ................. thats a lot of experience, and it gives someone of lesser experience an idea of the caliber of cutter it takes to "safely" perform this realitively dangerous act and not think that the world is going to end that day for them.

I'd say to Joe Subdivision who's cut say 40-100 trees down and is starting to thinks he's really something ........ that isn't near enough to be competent at domino'ing trees and thinking that they (and those around them) aren't at a very high risk of getting squashed as a result.

My opinion,

Sam
 

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