echo cs-400 vs. stihl ms-250

[Cliff R]

"Yeah guys, what do your wives think about this "speed vs. quality" philosophy??"

I would imagine it depends on if they are with their boyfriends, or their husbands.....LOL.

Seriously, a good chainsaw for someone who requires their services on a consistance basis, and needs to get a LOT of work done in a given time period, needs to be fast, fuel efficient, reliable, and provide a long service period without tons of "issues".

For the most part, the "Professional" models meet these needs moreso than the "homeowner" or casual user models.

I consider myself pretty demanding as far as my equipment goes. I manage several hundred acres of woods for a local landowner, my own woods, and do some commercial contract tree removal on occassion as well.

I also keep all of my equipment in top notch shape, it is maintenced after every outing, chain sharpened, chips blown out of them, greased, chain tightened, topped off with fuel and bar oil, etc.

I've obtained quite a few off brand saws (other than Husqvarna) in recent years, some were useless piles of JUNK, others OK, and some quite impressive.

The newer Echo saw, specifically the CS-360T, CS-510, CS-520's have been the most impressive. I kept one CS-510 in my line-up, and the CS-360T. I use them just about every week, and they are excellent in all catagories to date.

One must keep in mind when recomending various Brands of saws, that there are models in their line-up that aren't that great, some are just plain POS. Both Stihl and Husqvarna have produced some pretty "low" end units to compete with the box store stuff. Echo on the other hand, stepped up their line-up and continues to improve their quality to edge into the higher end market owned by Stihl and Husqvarna. I'm not saying here that all their saws are "Professional" quality, but many models are significantly better than the lower end models from the big names, at least from what I've seen here.....Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

That's the truth, these Stihl guys get on here and act like they all have the same qualiy when there is night and day difference between the 50 hour ones and the 300 hour one, both in power per cc and quality. Echo's are all 300 hour saws . Some are the split case saws, some are clamshells which I have no problem with. About 95% of the engines I own are clamshell and with Echo's clamshell design it take around 10 minutes to have the whole engine laying on the bench, if replacing bearing that job is a snap compared to the split case, replaceing the P@C might a couple minutes quicker on the split case. On the Echo clamshell engines a whole new short block can be bought for $190 plus 30 to 40 minutes to install, about the same price as just a P@C on a Stihl. I've never even came close to wearing one out yet, just found out by buying set to lean ones off Ebay. So far in 8 years on my running ones I've replaced 1 AV mount on my 6700 besides bars and chains. Steve

 

[Kurf]

Well, looks like several of the Echo people are coming out ot the wood work. Good for them. Cliff has been around awhile, made a lot of good posts that I have enjoyed. I use Echo saws around the farm mainly because of their quality, low cost (on Ebay anyway) and easy starting. I have a cs-520 and thought that I needed to add a little fuel to the high end to improve preformance. I removed the restricter, opened the H jet a little and the rpms went down. It was trying to rain and I didn't play around with it in a cut. The rpms were around 11,300 before starting the adjustment, which, I thought was a little low. I opened it about 1/8 turn and the rpm went down to around 11,100. Sounds like it was opened far enough. I then leaned it out and it went to 11,800 and I stopped, I don't think it will cut any better at 11,800 because at some point in time I had adjusted it to the wide open position allowed by the restricter. I was hoping to adjust it to around 12,000. I don't really know what is recommended. I've searched around here and on Echo's site, can't find that information. Can anyone share the information on recommended max rpm for the cs-520. Thanks

 

[mountainlake]

Well, looks like several of the Echo people are coming out ot the wood work. Good for them. Cliff has been around awhile, made a lot of good posts that I have enjoyed. I use Echo saws around the farm mainly because of their quality, low cost (on Ebay anyway) and easy starting. I have a cs-520 and thought that I needed to add a little fuel to the high end to improve preformance. I removed the restricter, opened the H jet a little and the rpms went down. It was trying to rain and I didn't play around with it in a cut. The rpms were around 11,300 before starting the adjustment, which, I thought was a little low. I opened it about 1/8 turn and the rpm went down to around 11,100. Sounds like it was opened far enough. I then leaned it out and it went to 11,800 and I stopped, I don't think it will cut any better at 11,800 because at some point in time I had adjusted it to the wide open position allowed by the restricter. I was hoping to adjust it to around 12,000. I don't really know what is recommended. I've searched around here and on Echo's site, can't find that information. Can anyone share the information on recommended max rpm for the cs-520. Thanks

Sounds like you were plenty rich to start with on yours, maybe someone adjusted it before yiou got it, keep leaning it out untill it pulls the best in the cut, soon as you get to lean it will bog out easy. Then put the tach on it for a good baseline number. I'd think over 13000 Steve

 

[Gizzard]

It's not stihl glasses at all, I have both saws and the 211 at 35cc's plain and simple outcuts the 37cc echo as it should. I also have the 250 and 260 which are very close in performance but not price which doesn't hardly seem right but it is. I bought the 260 because my old 026 gave out after years and probably should have bought a 346xp but I never included a 290 in any comparison but probably should have against a 670. I know it seems like I dislike echo as a brand but I really don't. If I was to start a landscaping company tomorrow I would run across town and buy echo and gladly do so. The one thing I can't buy at that echo shop is a saw because even the owner thinks their saws suck, plain and simple.

Huskystihl, nice sig line you have now. I know I mentioned it before, but my experience with the MS211 (35.2cc) and CS-370 (36.3cc)was different than yours. The CS-370 I had (2005) was one of the first ones out and didn't have primer and none of the richening issues that are often mentioned with the recent ones. I've run 2 different 211's and they weren't as quick at starting or cutting as that 370. Guy in forestry division doing stand thinning talked me out of that saw. Easy to do when the offer was more than I payed for it new. Price inflation of new saw makes it hard for me to hang onto saws. I take good care of them and someone often makes an offer for one that is more than what I originally paid for it. I've always liked the smaller Stihl's, but for the money seems like they should produce a lot more power or be the clear "king of the hill".

 

[2000ssm6]

The best thing echo could do is talk to toyota and try to figure out how to get their saws up to full throttle.

Wish I had room in my sig for this quote! LOLOLOL

 

[huskystihl]

Huskystihl, nice sig line you have now. I know I mentioned it before, but my experience with the MS211 (35.2cc) and CS-370 (36.3cc)was different than yours. The CS-370 I had (2005) was one of the first ones out and didn't have primer and none of the richening issues that are often mentioned with the recent ones. I've run 2 different 211's and they weren't as quick at starting or cutting as that 370. Guy in forestry division doing stand thinning talked me out of that saw. Easy to do when the offer was more than I payed for it new. Price inflation of new saw makes it hard for me to hang onto saws. I take good care of them and someone often makes an offer for one that is more than what I originally paid for it. I've always liked the smaller Stihl's, but for the money seems like they should produce a lot more power or be the clear "king of the hill".

Thats the same on I have, no primer. I gutted the muffler and fought with that dam limiter cap for an hour and richened it up and it just went BLAH. Finally I used a tach and set it about 14k which by ear sounded right but it still is underpowered with a 16" bar. I don't really care simply because I signed up at one of those expo deals at the home depot one day and won a $500 gift card so I got my trimmer and the 370 and I love that trimmer to death. I also have the fs55 at the lake that I wouldn't give a squirt of pi%% for. Rattly vibrating jackhammer on a stick. So theres my stihl bash and my echo plug.

 

[Gizzard]

Huskystihl,

Your ordeal with the 370 seems like similar tale I've got from other owners. I got lucky with one.

Usually just hear thumbs up on the 211 from whoever has one. The 211's I've run are nice fast running saws and even though the plastic looks poor on them, they seem like real durable saws.

Good luck with your business this year.

 

[huskystihl]

Huskystihl,

Your ordeal with the 370 seems like similar tale I've got from other owners. I got lucky with one.

Usually just hear thumbs up on the 211 from whoever has one. The 211's I've run are nice fast running saws and even though the plastic looks poor on them, they seem like real durable saws.

Good luck with your business this year.

Yep! I got the 211 and gave it a week and that was a year ago. I actually cracked an 036 case from less abuse than the 211 has had simply beacuse I have tried to kill it. Maybe some straight gas would get it done. I like feeling like I got my moneys worth on expensive items and try to expose the weaknesses of cheap ones. The gripe I had on the little limber was the price but it earned it's keep surprisingly.

 

[Saw Seller]

What saw

I would take the Echo over the Stihl any day. I love Stihl saws though, actually I love selling them to die hard loyalists who wouldn't own anything else. Stihl made some really great ones like the 028 WB, one of the most bullet proof saws ever made. I like Dolmars & was a Sachs Dolmar dealer for quite a few years. For the most part though I'm not a Stihl fan. They are too pricey, too hard to do major repairs, I'm seeing junk quality main bearings on some newer saws. You are not going to get German SKF's until you get up to a 660 or 880. You want a great saw for a great price? DOLMAR!

 

[pgg]

Echos have their place with homeowner saws and are just another mediocre performer amongst heaps of other brands. Echos get crap thrown at them by pros because they're promoted and branded as something they're not. Echo attempts to market their saws as being on the same level as pro stihls and huskys and at a much CHEAPER price. It's all such B.S. Surely intelligent people can see through the crap? Wise up, you don't get something for nothing in this life. Echos don't make the grade as a good pro saw, they're just tinny egg-beaters with no real substance when it comes to the harsh reality of commercial forestry.

How many PNW loggers up there run echos? I'd hazard a guess and say none. I wonder why? Ha! get real dudes, Echos are shyte as pro saws and just a temporary substitute for the real deal. If the cheesy Echo propaganda machine stopped all the crap and described their saws as what they really are, that's a typical budget-grade backyard chainsaw(there ain't nothing wrong with being branded a homeowner saw) then no-one would be throwing sh!t at them

 

[mountainlake]

Echos have their place with homeowner saws and are just another mediocre performer amongst heaps of other brands. Echos get crap thrown at them by pros because they're promoted and branded as something they're not. Echo attempts to market their saws as being on the same level as pro stihls and huskys and at a much CHEAPER price. It's all such B.S. Surely intelligent people can see through the crap? Wise up, you don't get something for nothing in this life. Echos don't make the grade as a good pro saw, they're just tinny egg-beaters with no real substance when it comes to the harsh reality of commercial forestry.

How many PNW loggers up there run echos? I'd hazard a guess and say none. I wonder why? Ha! get real dudes, Echos are shyte as pro saws and just a temporary substitute for the real deal. If the cheesy Echo propaganda machine stopped all the crap and described their saws as what they really are, that's a typical budget-grade backyard chainsaw(there ain't nothing wrong with being branded a homeowner saw) then no-one would be throwing sh!t at them

Well said for someone that doesn't know how or won't even tune a saw right. Just run them untill they die. Steve

 

[STIHLTHEDEERE]

Echos have their place with homeowner saws and are just another mediocre performer amongst heaps of other brands. Echos get crap thrown at them by pros because they're promoted and branded as something they're not. Echo attempts to market their saws as being on the same level as pro stihls and huskys and at a much CHEAPER price. It's all such B.S. Surely intelligent people can see through the crap? Wise up, you don't get something for nothing in this life. Echos don't make the grade as a good pro saw, they're just tinny egg-beaters with no real substance when it comes to the harsh reality of commercial forestry.

How many PNW loggers up there run echos? I'd hazard a guess and say none. I wonder why? Ha! get real dudes, Echos are shyte as pro saws and just a temporary substitute for the real deal. If the cheesy Echo propaganda machine stopped all the crap and described their saws as what they really are, that's a typical budget-grade backyard chainsaw(there ain't nothing wrong with being branded a homeowner saw) then no-one would be throwing sh!t at them

i have a cs600,and i would put it against my 361/362 any day,it is not a stihl,but it is an exc. saw.my brother uses several cs 530/600 on his crews on a dailly basis. they run all day beside "PRO" stihls',and have zero issues. the new cs600p is a great saw.

 

[Cliff R]

I feel the same way about my CS-510. Never ran a 50cc saw that was really any faster, smoother, etc. It has proven to be dead solid reliable in long term service as well, haven't touched it since it was purchased in 2003, other than removing the carb limiter caps and opening up the muffler a tad.

If my 262XP ever gives up, I'd replace it with a CS-600 without hesitation.......Cliff

PS: I'm still waiting for the little CS-360T to develope a "death rattle". Just finished cutting up most of the wood in this picture less than about 12" , 6 trees in all, and it didn't falter once.....

 

[Cliff R]

Here's a pic of Nathan and his favorite saw, the little Echo CS-360T. We used the CS-360T to limb about 60 trees on this job. Aside from tossing a chain once, it never grumbled the entire time.....Cliff

 

[503mckinney]

Don't know if this matters to you or not.

Echo CS-400 made in Japan/USA

Stihl MS-250 made in China

The Echo is a well made quality saw. :greenchainsaw:

Sorry your totally wrong on this. I work with Stihl in Virginia Beach VA and have for years now. The MS-250’s are produced almost weekly at this facility and is one of their highest selling products. This plant has over 1million square feet and is very impressive to see in person. So it’s disappointing to see people post totally incorrect assumptions when they don’t actually know the appropriate answer.

Oh and by the way I currently own a 2015 CS-400 that has less than 20 hours and will not stay running. Just got it back from the shop again today and no one including myself can diagnose the problem. Echo makes great stuff as well but honestly this has been the most problematic saw I’ve ever owned so it’s hard for me to believe that a MS-250 is much worse than the Echo. I found this thread as I’m currently trying to decide on which to purchase.

 

[holeycow]

Old thread...
but I'll bite;
I would buy neither.
I would find a Makita ea4300 (Dolmar 421).

 

[503mckinney]

Thanks glad someone took the challenge.

 

[Goinwheelin]

Sorry your totally wrong on this. I work with Stihl in Virginia Beach VA and have for years now. The MS-250’s are produced almost weekly at this facility and is one of their highest selling products. This plant has over 1million square feet and is very impressive to see in person. So it’s disappointing to see people post totally incorrect assumptions when they don’t actually know the appropriate answer.

Oh and by the way I currently own a 2015 CS-400 that has less than 20 hours and will not stay running. Just got it back from the shop again today and no one including myself can diagnose the problem. Echo makes great stuff as well but honestly this has been the most problematic saw I’ve ever owned so it’s hard for me to believe that a MS-250 is much worse than the Echo. I found this thread as I’m currently trying to decide on which to purchase.

So you work at a Stihl factory. Own an Echo. And can’t decide which one to buy?

 

[503mckinney]

So you work at a Stihl factory. Own an Echo. And can’t decide which one to buy?