bthompson224
ArboristSite Member
If yer cuttin' faster due to mods, wouldn't you run the saw less and may actually produce less emissions?
Echo CS-590 timberwolf vs. Echo CS-600P
- Thread starter Miles86
- Start date
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echoshawn
....Beer is good.....
I apologize if I partially derailed the thread.
Four years ago you couldnt get an Echo thread to have 7 posts let alone 7 pages, 65 pages or so in the case of the 610 twin. I like my Echo, well made, starts everytime. Ive been eyeing them 600P's lately.
In the last 10 years it went from 95% bashers to 95% thaqt like Echo saws. Steve
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
[video=youtube;EHq8p-I2Fuw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHq8p-I2Fuw[/video]
cjtreeclimber
ArboristSite Operative
Your telling me . . .I have the money . . just saw it the other morning and held one in my arms . . . ough .. almost came in my pants. .. trying to wait it out for the right timing.
Was just in the local Echo dealer today and looked over(held) a 600p. Looked like a keeper to me.
The regional Echo distributor was also there and got to visit with him. He mentioned something about a big saw coming to replace the CS-8000 as was mentioned earlier. My brother and I invited him to the Iowa Spring GTG and it sounds like he is going to be able to come. Said that sounded like a good time and would bring along the demo saws for people to try. That is certainly more interest and involvement than we have been able to get out of our local Dolmar, Husqvarna, Or Stihl dealers. I hope he makes it and he wasnt just giving us lip service!
Ron
The regional Echo distributor was also there and got to visit with him. He mentioned something about a big saw coming to replace the CS-8000 as was mentioned earlier. My brother and I invited him to the Iowa Spring GTG and it sounds like he is going to be able to come. Said that sounded like a good time and would bring along the demo saws for people to try. That is certainly more interest and involvement than we have been able to get out of our local Dolmar, Husqvarna, Or Stihl dealers. I hope he makes it and he wasnt just giving us lip service!
Ron
Hedgerow
HACK
I had a 440 roll through my garage on its way to a neighbor...
A re-tune and sharp chain, and that saw was just fine!!!
Light, peppy, just very useable!!!
I almost thought about keeping it!!!
Am I sick???
hiluxxulih
ArboristSite Operative
What the h**l now I have to get a big brother for my Echo CS600-P , I will start saving right , now that I am firmly seated in the Echo bandwagon :msp_biggrin:
echoshawn
....Beer is good.....
I'm just glad someone else put it out there too, so I'm not the only one posting about a rumored new Echo big bore.... better start saving my pennies now...
Back to the original question . . .
I had the same question as the OP. Was going to start a thread when I saw this one. I also emailed ECHO this question:
I received this answer:
it's confusing when manufacturers create different names for the same product: I would have preferred 'CS 600' and 'CS 600 PRO', or 'CS 600 Timber Wolf Edition'. But is sounds like the 590 could be a good value for $100 less for the right users.
Philbert
I had the same question as the OP. Was going to start a thread when I saw this one. I also emailed ECHO this question:
I received this answer:
it's confusing when manufacturers create different names for the same product: I would have preferred 'CS 600' and 'CS 600 PRO', or 'CS 600 Timber Wolf Edition'. But is sounds like the 590 could be a good value for $100 less for the right users.
Philbert
old 040
Addicted to ArboristSite
i kinda feel the same way, the 600p is a great saw, then shoot us in the back and make the 590 at a much more reasonable price, and with little mods to the 590 you've got a 600p...................:msp_mellow:
zogger
Tree Freak
Pretty reasonable on their part.
They came up with a way to get you basically the same saw much cheaper. Mine are the original and have the plastic handles, yet I dont feel cheated with them going to aluminum on the later models, machinery evolves all the time.
I do wish they made around a 75cc on the same platform though...
echoshawn
....Beer is good.....
When you add up the 'upgrades' (rim vs spur, metal handle, power match vs pro lite/pro-am bar, not sure which the timberwolf is), the extra $100ish makes sense..
If you priced these parts separately, I'd be willing to bet it'd add up.
I still would've bought the 600P IMO..
old 040
Addicted to ArboristSite
exactly what i'm saying, i really don't mind a spur sprocket, laminated bar, or the composite handle, the saw still cuts just as good as 600p, but if i were to use it daily the upgrades would be needed, or nice to have, these are all simple upgrades that anyone can make, as far as power output, the saws feel exactly the same, i guess that's what i'm trying to say, in most cases, the lower priced saw will also have less power, and to get it up to the next level can be much more costly.................:msp_mellow:
Green Monster
ArboristSite Lurker
CS-590 vs. CS-600P
The 2 saws have the exact same 59.8cc engine. The CS-590 sells for $110 less because:
1) The CS-590 comes equipped with a laminated bar instead of the higher end Pro-Match bar with a replaceable tip you get on the CS-600P.
2) The CS-590 comes with a spur sprocket instead of the rim sprocket you get on a CS-600P.
3) The CS-590 has a plastic handle where the CS-600P has an aluminum handle with a rubber overmold.
4) The CS-590 has a translucent gas tank so you can see your fuel.
5) The CS-600P uses the larger oversized bar nuts, where the CS-590 has standard sized bar nuts.
Bottom line, both saws are going to perform the same. However, if you cut a lot of wood, the CS-600P has the features you will appreciate. If you just want a big saw with good power, but you only cut 2 to 4 cords of firewood a year, or less, the CS-590 will do you just fine.
The saws ECHO is referring to when they say the CS-590 Timberwolf performs better than comparable models from Stihl and Husqvarna are the MS290 Farm Boss and the 455 Rancher. The CS-590 is about $20 to $30 more, but is a lot more saw! The CS-590 has more power than both the MS290 and 455, plus it has more features, and a much better warranty. It's well worth the extra $30 or so.
The 2 saws have the exact same 59.8cc engine. The CS-590 sells for $110 less because:
1) The CS-590 comes equipped with a laminated bar instead of the higher end Pro-Match bar with a replaceable tip you get on the CS-600P.
2) The CS-590 comes with a spur sprocket instead of the rim sprocket you get on a CS-600P.
3) The CS-590 has a plastic handle where the CS-600P has an aluminum handle with a rubber overmold.
4) The CS-590 has a translucent gas tank so you can see your fuel.
5) The CS-600P uses the larger oversized bar nuts, where the CS-590 has standard sized bar nuts.
Bottom line, both saws are going to perform the same. However, if you cut a lot of wood, the CS-600P has the features you will appreciate. If you just want a big saw with good power, but you only cut 2 to 4 cords of firewood a year, or less, the CS-590 will do you just fine.
The saws ECHO is referring to when they say the CS-590 Timberwolf performs better than comparable models from Stihl and Husqvarna are the MS290 Farm Boss and the 455 Rancher. The CS-590 is about $20 to $30 more, but is a lot more saw! The CS-590 has more power than both the MS290 and 455, plus it has more features, and a much better warranty. It's well worth the extra $30 or so.
Green Monster
ArboristSite Lurker
All current model ECHO CS-600 chainsaws get the "P" suffix. In other words the model number is always CS-600P. The "P" simply means "Performance Cutting System". It is the higher end ECHO Pro-Match bar vs. a laminated bar.
john damps
running chainsaws sence 1974
i have been logging all my life,i used just about everything i just ordered a timberwolf 590, love my stihl 290 super,i hope the timberwolf has the same power,the echo cs 400 [i have 4] are just great running excellent quility,i own big husky older 61 tons of power, 268-372, stiihl o44mag i think husky quality is getting low,the older stihls 5 years and older have more power than new ones[probley emissions] but i must admit echo quility is top self,im not brand loyal,i buy what i need,ill keep you posted when i run the 590 timberwolf;
I went in to my local dealer (carries ECHO and Stihl) a few days ago to look at the CS-590. He had just sold his last one earlier that day but will have more in about a week. But I did have a very interesting conversation with him and the service manager about the question of fuel and how ECHO saws are tuned by the dealer. It seems that ECHO specifies that the H & L needle valves are to be adjusted using a tach with the saw under no load using high grade fuel (preferably their PowerFuel, I suppose). It seems that fuel quality is becoming more and more of an issue, and I was told that ECHO recently sent a memo to their dealers and service stations that any saw that came in with fuel in it with octane rating below 89 or phase separation was not covered under warranty. The ethanol (and perhaps other additives) in standard automotive fuel is really affecting the stability of the 2-cycle oil added into the fuel. Even stabilizer doesn't help for long. Since a 2-cycle engine relies on that oil for all of its lubrication, it only takes a little gas (or worse yet, water) with no oil in it to ruin the engine. There are many reports of people who have bought good chainsaws, like the CS-400 and CS-590/600 that have burned up from lack of lubrication after only a few hours of use. They all claim to have used good 2-cycle oil with "new" gas from the local automotive service station. And, of course, they were all upset to find out that the warranty doesn't consider such damage to be a manufacturer's defect. Since I want my new saw to run for a long time, and always when I need it, I am willing to pay extra for quality fuel, although I too wish it were less expensive. And perhaps it will be as the demand grows and larger containers become more available.
There is some interesting information about this on the VP Racing Fuels website
http://www.vp-sef.com/index.php/products/pro-max
wherein they point out that the 2-cycle engine of a chainsaw like the CS-590/600 runs under conditions (HP/pound, RPM, cylinder temperatures) often more severe than the highest performance race car engines, especially since such 2-cycle engines are air-cooled. VP now has a premixed fuel especially formulated for high performance chainsaw engines called VP Pro Max with 97 octane, no ethanol, and Motul synthetic oil (710 2T?). I have a dealer not too far away and I will find out what it costs. The regular VP Small Engine Fuel with 94 octane, no ethanol, and Motul oil costs about $6.00/qt in the standard 8-pack. All of their fuels are also available in 1-gallon, 5-gallon, and 54-gallon containers for larger users.
Starting last year, I now use TruFuel 50:1 premix with 92 octane, no ethanol, and synthetic oil certified to JASO FD, etc., which I get for about $5.00/qt in standard 6-packs at Lowes. (Supposedly it is made by the same company that makes the Stihl MotoMix in the USA.) My smaller CS-330 tree saw starts and runs noticeably better on it. And, of course, in the tree is where I care the most that it starts easily all of the time.
I'll post what I find out about the VP Pro Max once I visit the dealer. I'll also post my test results with the CS-590 once I get it.
Happy cutting to all!
There is some interesting information about this on the VP Racing Fuels website
http://www.vp-sef.com/index.php/products/pro-max
wherein they point out that the 2-cycle engine of a chainsaw like the CS-590/600 runs under conditions (HP/pound, RPM, cylinder temperatures) often more severe than the highest performance race car engines, especially since such 2-cycle engines are air-cooled. VP now has a premixed fuel especially formulated for high performance chainsaw engines called VP Pro Max with 97 octane, no ethanol, and Motul synthetic oil (710 2T?). I have a dealer not too far away and I will find out what it costs. The regular VP Small Engine Fuel with 94 octane, no ethanol, and Motul oil costs about $6.00/qt in the standard 8-pack. All of their fuels are also available in 1-gallon, 5-gallon, and 54-gallon containers for larger users.
Starting last year, I now use TruFuel 50:1 premix with 92 octane, no ethanol, and synthetic oil certified to JASO FD, etc., which I get for about $5.00/qt in standard 6-packs at Lowes. (Supposedly it is made by the same company that makes the Stihl MotoMix in the USA.) My smaller CS-330 tree saw starts and runs noticeably better on it. And, of course, in the tree is where I care the most that it starts easily all of the time.
I'll post what I find out about the VP Pro Max once I visit the dealer. I'll also post my test results with the CS-590 once I get it.
Happy cutting to all!
7sleeper
Addicted to ArboristSite
@ larry lee
VP Pro-Max is an ETHANOL-FREE fuel mixed with best-in-class synthetic oil at 50:1
Pro-Max is specifically designed for the unique demands of high-load, high rpm professional chainsaws operating in high temperature and other extreme conditions. Its 97 octane rating provides maximum detonation protection, especially when air cooling systems are restricted by wood chips, sawdust or sap-pitch, and during jobs requiring many starts and stops which can rapidly build heat within the engine.
Engineered and tested to significantly enhance the performance and durability of today’s “stratofied lean burn” professional two-cycle engines (chainsaws and cut-off saws).
Sorry but this is just marketing bull$h!t.
Since when is a stratofied engine a lean burner? Lean burn only happens when the carburator is not properly adjusted. Just that simple.
97 octane rating! I can get that at every gas station I want.
Detonation protection especially when air cooling systems are restricted...
This is getting better and better! 
No doubt these premix fuels have very good qualities. First and formost would be the "pure" synthetic fuel absent of the additives in todays gas station fuels. Thus resulting in a "cleaner" fuel with less burned off or not burned off byproducts. Further that they have a shelf life of 5 years in a unopened container. So yes they are definately very good. And I recomend them to every homeowner because "old mix" is probably the number one problem for homeowners saw that get run every 2-5 years after a storm.
But if your "tree saw" has starting difficulties it has nothing to do with the fuel. More a carb issue.
7
VP Pro-Max is an ETHANOL-FREE fuel mixed with best-in-class synthetic oil at 50:1
Pro-Max is specifically designed for the unique demands of high-load, high rpm professional chainsaws operating in high temperature and other extreme conditions. Its 97 octane rating provides maximum detonation protection, especially when air cooling systems are restricted by wood chips, sawdust or sap-pitch, and during jobs requiring many starts and stops which can rapidly build heat within the engine.
Engineered and tested to significantly enhance the performance and durability of today’s “stratofied lean burn” professional two-cycle engines (chainsaws and cut-off saws).
Sorry but this is just marketing bull$h!t.
Since when is a stratofied engine a lean burner? Lean burn only happens when the carburator is not properly adjusted. Just that simple.
97 octane rating! I can get that at every gas station I want.
Detonation protection especially when air cooling systems are restricted...
No doubt these premix fuels have very good qualities. First and formost would be the "pure" synthetic fuel absent of the additives in todays gas station fuels. Thus resulting in a "cleaner" fuel with less burned off or not burned off byproducts. Further that they have a shelf life of 5 years in a unopened container. So yes they are definately very good. And I recomend them to every homeowner because "old mix" is probably the number one problem for homeowners saw that get run every 2-5 years after a storm.
But if your "tree saw" has starting difficulties it has nothing to do with the fuel. More a carb issue.
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