electric?

[klickitatsacket]

how many guys would run electric motors if there was an inexpensive option. We have been kicking around the idea of producing a chainsaw mill that uses an electric motor for a slabbing machine.

 

[carvinmark]

Sounds interesting, I would like to see your ideas.

 

[Husky137]

Might defeat the main advantage of csm,portability in to the woods.

 

[BobL]

The main reason I would be interested would for the reduced noise in an high density urban situation.

I would be a bit concerned about using electric with an Alaskan unless it was fixed on a rig of some kind - too much sawdust and chances of not seeing and chopping through the power cord.

At the mobile end of the scale I would definitely not be interested in toting a 2kW+ geny through the bush.

 

[wdchuck]

A neighbor of mine is trying to do just that, he has a broken chainsaw and wants to hook an electric motor to it for squaring off small spruce poles. The saw used to be a little puolon with 14"bar.

More info would be a good thing.

 

[BlueRider]

I would be very interested. I have been thinking of building one myself. My biggest reason for wanting an electric chainsaw is not a decrease in noise but a decrease in sucking down exhaust fumes.
As far as specs I am using an 075 on a 42" bar, I would want similar size and performance from an electric. the weight is a bit of an issue as I usually mill wood without a helper. cost is always a factor, but durability is more important than a low price.

I have been milling wood for 14 years and would definately be interested in working with you on a design. I am also a patternmaker incase your design needs any castings.

Robin

 

[woodshop]

I seem to remember that originally, you could buy the little Ripsaw bandsaw mill with an electric motor option instead of a chainsaw engine. Don't think they carry that any more although I suppose somebody handy could rig one up. I too would like to do without the exhaust fumes since with both a csm and the Ripsaw your face is right down there closer to the saw, and thus fumes. That's why I wear a respirator. I would worry about power though. You need to draw a LOT of amps to pull that chain or blade through logs. Example, I sometimes try and use my 2 1/4 HP 220V bandsaw as a mini sawmill, it has 12 inches between the blade guide and the table so theoretically could slice up a 12 inch log. But my experience has taught me that if we are talking wet wood, anything more than 8-9 inches is a chore. Not even close to the pulling power of even a 60cc chainsaw like on my Ripsaw bandmill.

 

[clearance]

I don't see why not, three phase would help, if you don't have three phase you can get a phase convertor. Big sawmills use electric, works for them.

 

[woodshop]

I don't see why not, three phase would help, if you don't have three phase you can get a phase convertor. Big sawmills use electric, works for them.

Well sure... big sawmills use electric to power their huge bandmills. But I thought we were talking about something small enough to mount on a csm and push down a log, something you could plug into your house outlet or run from a generator. Those big electric motors mounted in sawmills weigh couple thousand pounds and use more current than is normally available out of a standard house electric service. Apples and oranges.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I have pondered this myself. What I'm hung up on is how electric motor power compares to chainsaw power in a real world application. How big of an electric motor would be needed to pull a 60+" bar and hang with a 088/084/3120? I dunno....

 

[ShoerFast]

I have pondered this myself. What I'm hung up on is how electric motor power compares to chainsaw power in a real world application. How big of an electric motor would be needed to pull a 60+" bar and hang with a 088/084/3120? I dunno....

Down a 12Ga. extension cord, at 110V your only going to get about 3HP or 120V X 20A = 2400 Watts,,,, 2400 / 746 = 3.217 HP an MS-260 has 2.4K watts or 3.2HP (my 3500W truck-mounted generator has 20A breakers, but at that, a 12G cord dose get warm) Stihl only recommends 50' of 12G cord for there 1.7W 2.3HP electric chainsaw


220V moters would help, but your starting to limit you generators that could be used, and still dang heavy,,,, to get the same snort as even an MS-660 , your not going to cut far from the truck the generator is in. You would need a 5.5K 220V generator 7HP 220V motors are just plain heavy. 3-phase would help, but your pricing most out of the ball-game.

I'm thinking it will take awhile for an electric motor to make the power a CSM will give.

Band-saw mills have a lot of frame compared to a Bar-chain , if a light BSB could be made to really sing, aluminum frame, maybe a rig could be designed?

 

[klickitatsacket]

one thing to remember guys is that you need less electric HP then you do gas HP that is why train engines are deisel generators running electric motors. No transmission, no clutch and so on. The idea is to build a 220 outfit and I think a 3 hp motor for small mills and a 5 HP motor for larger mills.

 

[klickitatsacket]

also this idea is because most guys run their mills in the back yard. The chainsaw mill is still for taking to onsite jobs.

 

[BobL]

If you need 5kW (6.2Hp) to effectively drive a 60" bar you need a system that can deliver 5000kW/120V = 42 A . ie not likely through normal household circuits. To build in an added safety factor you would have to go to 3 phase.

Electric motor (current/HP) ratings are also neither constant nor accurate. For example, my 3HP rated table saw should then draw 2250 W which at 240 V = 9.4A. However, by really pushing it I can get it to draw up to 17A (4 kW) for about a minute before it trips its thermal cut out switch. The most I can get it to draw without tripping for an extended period is about 12A (2.9kW).

A comparative power to weight example can be obtained as follows.
The biggest Makita electric CS is rated at 13A (120V) or 2.1 HP so ~3 of these will get you 6 HP. The Makita weighs 9 lbs so you'd be lugging about 3 of these (not quite because you don't have to duplicate everything when you go bigger) which is a similar power/weight ratio to CS. (But you'd really need 42 A ie 3 phase).

I understand that there are still significant improvements in the electric motor power to weight ratios that manufacturers have not released. Some of these may become relevant when electric cars become more common.

 

[BlueRider]

how about DC

I had originaly thought about using a 3ph motor and runing it through a variable phase controler to control the speed. Prpblem there is that the the vpc eats up a bit of the hp output of the motor.

My latest idea is to use a dc motor. Dc motors are really torqey and are the motors of choice for cars. just run the gererator through an inverter and then use a controller similar to a golf cartto control the speed. The thing about a dc motor is they have great low rpm torqe. Ive been looking at golf cart moters but they are a bit pricey and I can't find any info for how much they weigh.

 

[BobL]

one thing to remember guys is that you need less electric HP then you do gas HP that is why train engines are deisel generators running electric motors. No transmission, no clutch and so on. The idea is to build a 220 outfit and I think a 3 hp motor for small mills and a 5 HP motor for larger mills.

The reason for using a smaller power electric motor in vehicles is related to the stop-start action cycle of motor vehicles. You don't need high HP to maintain top speed but you need a lot of torque to get you there quickly. Trains especially and cars as well need a lot of torque to accelerate in a reasonable time so a "high torque - low HP" motor like electric is very useful for vehicles that stop and start. My understanding is that CS need raw power. Whether its electric or gas, if you need xHP to keep millin there is no difference between a gas or electric.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I had originaly thought about using a 3ph motor and runing it through a variable phase controler to control the speed. Prpblem there is that the the vpc eats up a bit of the hp output of the motor.

My latest idea is to use a dc motor. Dc motors are really torqey and are the motors of choice for cars. just run the gererator through an inverter and then use a controller similar to a golf cartto control the speed. The thing about a dc motor is they have great low rpm torqe. Ive been looking at golf cart moters but they are a bit pricey and I can't find any info for how much they weigh.

This is interesting. There's a golf cart in my barn that was supposed to be a short term storage deal for a friend. It may be a candidate for cannibalizing...

What else can you tell me about this?

 

[klickitatsacket]

I understand what you are trying to say. However one of the things I am trying get past is the power to weight ratio thing. It is not what i am looking at. I would not be trying to compete with the csm but rother add an option for others where it might fit there needs. These would be carriage mounted and semi portable. Meaning you would have to take it down to move it. I had a friend of mine who built a band saw using a 3 HP electric motor and built his entire house with it before he sold it. It worked great and was fairly cheap to build ($500). A lot of mills use electric chainsaws as deck and ripping saws and I was just looking at the idea for a back yard saw if others might be interested I might think about building others besides mine.

 

[aquan8tor]

I had originaly thought about using a 3ph motor and runing it through a variable phase controler to control the speed. Prpblem there is that the the vpc eats up a bit of the hp output of the motor.

My latest idea is to use a dc motor. Dc motors are really torqey and are the motors of choice for cars. just run the gererator through an inverter and then use a controller similar to a golf cartto control the speed. The thing about a dc motor is they have great low rpm torqe. Ive been looking at golf cart moters but they are a bit pricey and I can't find any info for how much they weigh.

This is true; the VPC, or static converter, as I've heard them called, eats up something on the order of 30% of the output, unless you get a rotary phase converter, which creates true three phase power. The difference between the two is simple......a few hundred dollars. I looked into them a bit when looking for a new motor for my woodworking bandsaw; I settled on a 1PH 220V 1.5HP model (its only a 14" bandsaw).

The thing with a DC motor is that you have to have some MONSTROUS power cords to deal with the amperage, unless you're talking high voltage DC. You have to remember that the amperage goes up tremendously when you're talking about 12V or even 24V. This is why car battery cables are so thick, and why they heat up when you jump start a car. Better opt for the 2/0 or 4/0 ga. cable!! Not cheap. I remember that from my high school days when I wanted a big car stereo. For the record I did NOT listen to ghetto rap!!!!!

Logosol has some electric motor conversions available for their mills, and I'm thinking htat alll of them are three phase. They're quite large from what I remember from their video, around the size of a small watermelon! But, they also looked pretty darn fast, too. You just have to have 3PH power, or a big converter, which will cost you a good $500 or more for a 5HP rotary phase converter. I'll have to ask my cabinet making friend what brand he uses in his shop; he has a couple older tools that run off 3PH power, and he has a good converter.

 

[Railomatic]

electric

I have tried electric motors before and its a non starter if you want portability but its ok for a static.
A motor which has the same power as one of the bigger chainsaws is a pretty heafty thing and costs more than two new saws unless you get second had, then there's the heavy duty cable needed and a power supply like 3 phase to run everything.
Single phase motors once you get near the 3-5hp range are very expensive items, you would be better off buying a 13hp 4 stroke Honda motor instead
which I'm still working on right now, should have some results later this year.