EPA Regulations

[Farmertim]

Sheeesh! Haven't got any birks - thats for sure. I come to this discussion from the trenches! We have a huge hurt on in the farming community, and there is always talk of bad publicity about pollution from farmers at the various meetings I attend. When people make a living that is affected by regulations - particularily environmental ones the reaction is usually defensive - golf courses pollute more! big industry, coal fired genaration etc, that doesn't negate the pollution from the agricultural industry! If we all had the attitude that what we do in our personal lives doesn't matter, its only the big players at fault, very little positive change would happen in any social, political, cultural, or environmental arena. By the way -- pits are great dogs and often misunderstood! I had a Roti that got killed on the highway -- still miss her, best dog I ever had,

Tim

 

[StihlGuitar]

+1


What do you plan on feeding said bears once you've exhausted the county of rabbits and meth labs. Oh wait, there's more meth labs than rabbits in Allegan Co.

They will feed on an Allegan man with a poop tooth...wait, thats not much of a meal...God Bless Anhydrous!

 

[StihlGuitar]

Sheeesh! Haven't got any birks - thats for sure. I come to this discussion from the trenches! We have a huge hurt on in the farming community, and there is always talk of bad publicity about pollution from farmers at the various meetings I attend. When people make a living that is affected by regulations - particularily environmental ones the reaction is usually defensive - golf courses pollute more! big industry, coal fired genaration etc, that doesn't negate the pollution from the agricultural industry! If we all had the attitude that what we do in our personal lives doesn't matter, its only the big players at fault, very little positive change would happen in any social, political, cultural, or environmental arena. By the way -- pits are great dogs and often misunderstood! I had a Roti that got killed on the highway -- still miss her, best dog I ever had,

Tim

to my point my friend...big players, not guys out cuttin wood with chainsaws. Lets make a difference where we can make a difference.

 

[dingeryote]

More to the point, when will it come to pass that semi-annual inspections are required of privately owned carbon emitting devices, to ensure the national limit is not exceeded, and to allow lattitude to Big industry for profits?

Think about it. The EPA has been basicly given the authority to legislate all aspects of most peoples lives, and the PSYCHO communist ram rodding EPA policy(Carolyn Browner) has sworn to destroy our economy in order to shift wealth to other nations. Cap and trade?

Does anyone think for a second that when big industry and mega energy start getting cramped for credits, they wont go to pressuring for the individual credits held privately? Meaning your car, furnace, lawn mower, etc...

'Ol Farmer tim is hearing the snivels from the Grass eatin globalists up in canada blaming AG, because individual private farms are an easier target than the mega corp. Unfortunately for him he's in Canada and might actually be better off caving in to the Hippies. It's spineless to be sure, but it's survival for now, at least untill they regulate him right off the tractor with thier bull####.

The EPA has stooped to the level of goin after weed whackers because they can...all the weedwhackers combined emit about the same as Al Gores private Jet.
Think about it. It ain't emissions, it's control.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[dozerdan]

How do you think the EPA would view you "Modding" your chainsaw. Somebody said this to me tonight and it made me say....hrrrmmmm. I have my thoughts but was wondering yours. It is a joke to even ask this question but if somebody else is thinking it, don't you think the EPA is? Food for thought!!

A few years ago I was contacted by EPA for porting saws. They told me that my fine would be 10,000.00 for each saw that I ported. I told them that was ok, just send me the fine. I will let my attorney deal with it. I told them that I build saws for competition use only and that I have no control over what people do with them after they leave here. I also told them that any person can purchase a new car, take that car off of the lot, do any mods they want to do to it and run it on any race track and that is legal. I basically told them I will stop porting saws when they stop building race cars in the US. I had to post the polite version, I wasn't that polite with them. I asked them how many ported saws it takes to equal the emissions for one jet flight from coast to coast or the emissions for one train running the same distance. They never answered that question. They never fined me.
Later
Dan

 

[Farmertim]

Good Point Dingeryote!, I agree, it is about corporate power, and we as farmers, or citizens have little to no say in this chess game! Big money talks! It is unfortunate but one of the problems in a capitalist economy. Sometimes I think that the frustration over government interference and BS overshadows some real ecological problems out there that we are all a part off; however, if Monsanto, or Shell oil can operate as they do, surely I can operate a 372 with a muff mod! I think many here are conservationists; I know as a hunter, wood cutter, fisherman, farmer, and canoeist I respect the land and resources that are foundational for these activities. Not all environmental concerns that are publicized today are BS, they are legit; I think, however, that the way government and powerful special interest groups have all the say--even if their actions and 'solutions' are counterintuitive and void of common sense! I think this is the major source of frustration.

Tim

 

[StihlGuitar]

me tooo

Tim, I'm on board in respect to conservation. I just don't think that the solution is in EPA restrictions on 2-stroke equipment. You said, "Ya, I like the pre epa saws better too, and I know there are a lot of worse polluters than 2 strokes; however, better to be part of a solution than part of a problem." I don't think that running a stock ms441 instead of a modded 044 is a solution. A better solution would be to terminate the advancement of medical technology. The life expectancy in 1900 was 45 years of age. now it has doubled. My generation's (I'm a gen x 35 year old) life expectancy is 108 years old. Besides the car I drive, the mower I cut my grass with, etc...I exhale CO2....probably the worst thing I do for the environment...Just food for thought. I'm being facetious, of course, but what measurable advantage are we gaining from limiting 2-stroke emissions?

 

[Farmertim]

Yea, I have to agree Stihl, just not so sure that the epa will be the demise of either of our countries! Sometimes when there is legitimate frustration over government meddling and control there can be an adverse reaction that is emotional over rational. All the publicity over 'climategate' etc, lead many to act as if our actions have no really consequences and any environmental concerns is pure hogwash. Lets not forget all the skewed data and untrustworthy science etc we have been fed from oil conglomerates, chemical companies etc, and we usually don't see people saying screw our combustion engines - we have been had. We all like the conveniences of modern life, and are remiss to give them up and we will look for justification to keep them! As usual the buck gets passed onto Joe citizen, or working folk trying to make ends meet over industry (just ask any farmer - thinking manure regs etc.). I sure would take our democratic system over forms of government around the world, though! I know I am personally not well enough informed about the science and politics of climate change, emissions etc. to speak on this with any authority - just trying to add a little balance! There are a lot of extremests on either side of the equation. As Winston Churchill once said "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter". (That includes me!!!)



Tim

 

[jd548esco72]

Somalia is doing real well without a government...

LOL!

their economy is booming too! who says piracy and kidnapping don't pay?:greenchainsaw:

 

[Cam501]

The fines apply to licensed dealers and certified mechanics, not joe blow working in his garage...

The fine for joe blow is 3750 per day for the end user! this comes from documents from multiple manufacturers.

Seriously man....do you really think that you are part of a solution? Do you think that the cloud of smog I see hovering over Chicago and Milwaukee when I look out over Lake Michigan from SW Michigan is due in any significant way to 2 stroke engines? If you're that on board, go ride a bike, and know that the rubber on the soles of your Birkenstocks will not biodegrade for 5 million years and sweatshop children harvested your patchouli. When they pass the Polar Bear Adoption Act, due to polar icecaps melting, I'm fawkin gettin one...always wanted to hang a, "Beware of Polar Bear" sign in my window...then maybe my 2 pitbulls will get a break from being ridiculed by the ignorant and misinformed.

the OPE industry accounts for 8% of our pollution, for whtatever that is worth, relevant, or irrelevant to you.

Who here likes spring anti-vibe? Specifically on stihls?

That came about because of government regs, not because stihl loves you!

How can you attibute spring antivibe (Which works better than rubber buffers) to the govt?!?! Wow, some people seem to want to blame everything on the govt....which is onl partially true.

 

[Cam501]

The fines apply to licensed dealers and certified mechanics, not joe blow working in his garage...

The fine for joe blow is 3750 per day for the end user! this comes from documents from multiple manufacturers.

Seriously man....do you really think that you are part of a solution? Do you think that the cloud of smog I see hovering over Chicago and Milwaukee when I look out over Lake Michigan from SW Michigan is due in any significant way to 2 stroke engines? If you're that on board, go ride a bike, and know that the rubber on the soles of your Birkenstocks will not biodegrade for 5 million years and sweatshop children harvested your patchouli. When they pass the Polar Bear Adoption Act, due to polar icecaps melting, I'm fawkin gettin one...always wanted to hang a, "Beware of Polar Bear" sign in my window...then maybe my 2 pitbulls will get a break from being ridiculed by the ignorant and misinformed.

the OPE industry accounts for 8% of our pollution, for whatever that is worth, relevant, or irrelevant to you.

Who here likes spring anti-vibe? Specifically on stihls?

That came about because of government regs, not because stihl loves you!

How can you attibute spring antivibe (Which works better than rubber buffers) to the govt?!?! Wow, some people seem to want to blame everything on the govt....which is only partially true.

Sheeesh! Haven't got any birks - thats for sure. I come to this discussion from the trenches! We have a huge hurt on in the farming community, and there is always talk of bad publicity about pollution from farmers at the various meetings I attend. When people make a living that is affected by regulations - particularily environmental ones the reaction is usually defensive - golf courses pollute more! big industry, coal fired genaration etc, that doesn't negate the pollution from the agricultural industry! If we all had the attitude that what we do in our personal lives doesn't matter, its only the big players at fault, very little positive change would happen in any social, political, cultural, or environmental arena. By the way -- pits are great dogs and often misunderstood! I had a Roti that got killed on the highway -- still miss her, best dog I ever had,

Tim

It's small change that moves us along!!!

More to the point, when will it come to pass that semi-annual inspections are required of privately owned carbon emitting devices, to ensure the national limit is not exceeded, and to allow lattitude to Big industry for profits?

Think about it. The EPA has been basicly given the authority to legislate all aspects of most peoples lives, and the PSYCHO communist ram rodding EPA policy(Carolyn Browner) has sworn to destroy our economy in order to shift wealth to other nations. Cap and trade?

Does anyone think for a second that when big industry and mega energy start getting cramped for credits, they wont go to pressuring for the individual credits held privately? Meaning your car, furnace, lawn mower, etc...

'Ol Farmer tim is hearing the snivels from the Grass eatin globalists up in canada blaming AG, because individual private farms are an easier target than the mega corp. Unfortunately for him he's in Canada and might actually be better off caving in to the Hippies. It's spineless to be sure, but it's survival for now, at least untill they regulate him right off the tractor with thier bull####.

The EPA has stooped to the level of goin after weed whackers because they can...all the weedwhackers combined emit about the same as Al Gores private Jet.
Think about it. It ain't emissions, it's control.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

The Clean Air act gives the EPA authority to regulate these items, and even a republican leaning court has agreed with this posidtion

 

[StihlGuitar]

[/QUOTE] The Clean Air act gives the EPA authority to regulate these items, and even a republican leaning court has agreed with this posidtion[/QUOTE]

I'm going to politely ask you for your list of running saws now (and any mods.)

 

[djmercer1]

The fine for joe blow is 3750 per day for the end user! this comes from documents from multiple manufacturers.



the OPE industry accounts for 8% of our pollution, for whatever that is worth, relevant, or irrelevant to you.



How can you attibute spring antivibe (Which works better than rubber buffers) to the govt?!?! Wow, some people seem to want to blame everything on the govt....which is only partially true.


It's small change that moves us along!!!



The Clean Air act gives the EPA authority to regulate these items, and even a republican leaning court has agreed with this posidtion

well, i can directly attribute the emissions crap on my truck to the government.... i had a lb7 that got 21-24 mpg empty and 16 while towing, i have a lly with egr only and can barely get 20 mpg empty and a lmm that can hardly get 15 empty.... load either the lly or lmm and you lose 4-8 mpg.... the epa mandates equpment that lowers fuel economy by almost 40% and causes reliability issues (ask someone with a 6.0/6.4l ford or the newer 6.7l cummins).... end of the day, the duramax motors are effectively the same
mechanically and the efficiency has gone to crap while durability is shot...

the government has done the same with almost all equipment, it is less reliable in the long run that also produces waste... when figuring out the pollution levels of a piece of gear you have to calculate the carbon foot print of producing a vehicle or other piece equipment that doesnt last as long...