Filing after sharpening with the chain grinder

[user 122190]

It is the cutting edge that bares the brunt of the force, and dulls or gets chipped requiring sharpening. As far as the gullet and else beyond the cutting edge, most of the cutting is complete and has little effect.

Do you guys find the round profile needs to be touched up sooner than the flat edge left by a grinder, vice versa, or no difference?

 

[sunfish]

I was a diehard file only guy for 30 years, then got a good grinder.
Much prefer the grinder now, but can still make a chain cut faster with a file.

 

[CR888]

Sure its 'possible' to file a better performing chain by hand than a grinder. That is of coarse that you have the skill to hold the file consistently dead straight cutter after cutter on both left & right sides while doing this keep the file at the optimal height cutter after cutter. Basically your skill level needs to be very good to do it (which of coarse is 'possible'). But out of all the guys who claim they have such skill to outperform the mechanical device I wonder sometimes how true their statements really are. My guess is less than 2% of filers have that skill level. Do YOU reside in that category??... I get it too that to get great grinding results takes skill, but those who so quickly claim they can out file the grinder I worry about. Sometime we confuse our ambitions with our capabilities.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Grinder is quicker. Some of the chains we get in the shop would take an hour to do with a file!

 

[pbilly]

square chain and a simington grinder perfect every time no file needed

 

[rngrchad]

I would say the opposite. It might be possible to grind a chain to cut better than hand filing but only 2% of grinder operators have that ability. Most grinder operators confuse their skill to properly operate the machine. I would say more guys cutting timber in the woods for s living are likely filing by hand 90% of the time and most guys chains never even see a grinder. It’s faster, more efficient, and usually yields as good or better results filing chain on the saw than having to remove it, then re-install. It takes 15 minutes tops to file a fullcomp 105 driver chain, maybe 10 to do a skip 105 driver. My thoughts anyways. When I was making money with saws I filed every single tank of gas typically.

Sure its 'possible' to file a better performing chain by hand than a grinder. That is of coarse that you have the skill to hold the file consistently dead straight cutter after cutter on both left & right sides while doing this keep the file at the optimal height cutter after cutter. Basically your skill level needs to be very good to do it (which of coarse is 'possible'). But out of all the guys who claim they have such skill to outperform the mechanical device I wonder sometimes how true their statements really are. My guess is less than 2% of filers have that skill level. Do YOU reside in that category??... I get it too that to get great grinding results takes skill, but those who so quickly claim they can out file the grinder I worry about. Sometime we confuse our ambitions with our capabilities.

 

[anymanusa]

I never need a bench grinder. I always hand file.

Don't be lazy. Hand file.

 

[2broke2ride]

Like i said. I dont think I xan file better than a proper grind. Problem is, i cant justify the cost of a grinder myself and ive seen what the shops around here push out.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

Funny there's no talk of the Silvey. Unless you're making a race chain you'll never get sharper by hand.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Sure its 'possible' to file a better performing chain by hand than a grinder. That is of coarse that you have the skill to hold the file consistently dead straight cutter after cutter on both left & right sides while doing this keep the file at the optimal height cutter after cutter. Basically your skill level needs to be very good to do it (which of coarse is 'possible'). But out of all the guys who claim they have such skill to outperform the mechanical device I wonder sometimes how true their statements really are. My guess is less than 2% of filers have that skill level. Do YOU reside in that category??... I get it too that to get great grinding results takes skill, but those who so quickly claim they can out file the grinder I worry about. Sometime we confuse our ambitions with our capabilities.

For me whether to hand file or not is not an option. When I go to cut I take a large array of stuff like at least one back up vice and a dozen new files. For many years having electricity has not been an option however am considering setting up a generator. When I cut I could be gone for as long as 3 1/2 weeks. After more than 50 years of cutting and sharpening I am sure I know what I am doing. About 15 years ago a contractor that I was helping looked at one of my chains that I was determined to nurse one more tree worth of cuts out of. He says "you know if you spend a little energy on your rakes you would get more done". I was taken back because I had more experience than the whole crew combined. He was right even though I knew much I did not know every thing. So I spent time fine tuning the whole chain rather than just putting a new edge and moving on. At this point pretty much every time I pick up a saw it cuts better than the original factory chain. What is worse I rarely look at my chains because sharpening is so boring. I file by how it feels and the same for the rakers. When hand filing if you hit some thing wrong like a big super hard knot it could cause many teeth on one side to be rounded. A hand file job will not take all the material on the whole chain down to match a few rounded teeth. So chain last much longer. Thanks

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Grinder is quicker. Some of the chains we get in the shop would take an hour to do with a file!

If you have a rocked out chain that is trashed by hand the chain should be brought back in at least 30 minutes on the saw. If you have 5 rocked out chains not even I would sharpen them all in one day with out a grinder. Some one who is competent should be able to restore a chain in half the time to remove chain and set up grinder. Thanks

 

[HarleyT]

For me whether to hand file or not is not an option. When I go to cut I take a large array of stuff like at least one back up vice and a dozen new files. For many years having electricity has not been an option however am considering setting up a generator. When I cut I could be gone for as long as 3 1/2 weeks. After more than 50 years of cutting and sharpening I am sure I know what I am doing. About 15 years ago a contractor that I was helping looked at one of my chains that I was determined to nurse one more tree worth of cuts out of. He says "you know if you spend a little energy on your rakes you would get more done". I was taken back because I had more experience than the whole crew combined. He was right even though I knew much I did not know every thing. So I spent time fine tuning the whole chain rather than just putting a new edge and moving on. At this point pretty much every time I pick up a saw it cuts better than the original factory chain. What is worse I rarely look at my chains because sharpening is so boring. I file by how it feels and the same for the rakers. When hand filing if you hit some thing wrong like a big super hard knot it could cause many teeth on one side to be rounded. A hand file job will not take all the material on the whole chain down to match a few rounded teeth. So chain last much longer. Thanks

A good "hand file job" is a great stress reducer!!

 

[user 122190]

Hand filing by hand, no bar mounted jig, is a hard skill to master. I've a neighbor that can do it, and he cuts a lot, and has been at it for over 25 years, since he was 12. I have other neighbors that try hand filing and it is a disaster, and didn't know it. I insisted on sharpening their chain and they can't quite believe how much better their saws cut.

Sure its 'possible' to file a better performing chain by hand than a grinder. That is of coarse that you have the skill to hold the file consistently dead straight cutter after cutter on both left & right sides while doing this keep the file at the optimal height cutter after cutter. Basically your skill level needs to be very good to do it (which of coarse is 'possible'). But out of all the guys who claim they have such skill to outperform the mechanical device I wonder sometimes how true their statements really are. My guess is less than 2% of filers have that skill level. Do YOU reside in that category??... I get it too that to get great grinding results takes skill, but those who so quickly claim they can out file the grinder I worry about. Sometime we confuse our ambitions with our capabilities.

 

[user 122190]

As Woody Allen once shared, the DIY hand file job is an empty experience. But as empty experiences go, it is one of the better ones.

A good "hand file job great stress reducer!!

 

[Beetlejuice]

I loaned my saw out and this how the chain came back.. Didn't even screw with it.. Put a new used on.. Some people need to learn how to hand sharpen is a fact

 

[Philbert]

We have had many of these discussions before. Some of it even depends on your definition of the word 'sharpen'.

For some, it means 'touching up', or 'maintaining' sharp edges. For others, it means reshaping angles, or repairing damaged/abused cutters.

Philbert

 

[user 122190]

Mostly, I run Stihl saws, with Stihl chains. Except on my 461, I run Husky chains, because a local dealer is damn near giving them away. How do you feel about reprofiling a Husky 55/25 to a Stihl 60/30? It appears to me that that the 2 are of different metals, if that makes any difference. Just go ahead and reprofile or just suck it up and change the grinder settings to the Stihl vs. Husky chains, and visa versa?

We have had many of these discussions before. Some of it even depends on your definition of the word 'sharpen'.

For some, it means 'touching up', or 'maintaining' sharp edges. For others, it means reshaping angles, or repairing damaged/abused cutters.

Philbert

 

[user 122190]

I loan myself out along with my saw. I won't even run anybody else's gas/oil mix in my saw.

I loaned my saw out and this how the chain came back.. Didn't even screw with it.. Put a new used on.. Some people need to learn how to hand sharpen is a factView attachment 663598 View attachment 663599

 

[Beetlejuice]

I loan myself out along with my saw. I won't even run anybody else's gas/oil mix in my saw.

You are a smart fellow. I take my own stuff, I won't let someone fill up on my dime.. Won't be responsible for a blown up saw.

 

[Philbert]

How do you feel about reprofiling a Husky 55/25 to a Stihl 60/30?

One of the big advantages of sharpening your own chains, is that you can do it how you want. Whether you file, or grind or whatever.

The angles specified by manufacturers for their chains are based on 'general use'; for millions of users, in hundreds of countries, cutting thousands of different species of wood. If you optimize a chain for the wood you cut, the saw you use, and the type of cutting you do, you might choose other angles. The cutters on different brands of chain (e.g. Husky and STIHL) may also not be identical, even if the same pitch. Very hard to measure without precision machinists' tools, but the profiles could be different.

So the best thing, in my mind, is to experiment! Have fun! Try a couple of identical chains, side-by-side, filed / ground to different angles, and see if you notice a difference. See how the Husky chain cuts at different angles. Try the STIHL chains at the Husky settings. These differences are easiest to compare if you swap chains between cuts on the same logs.

You can also have different chains optimized for hardwoods, softwoods, frozen wood, stumps, and select for the situation like a caddy for a golf pro ('I'd go with the full chisel, STIHL, 27°/55°/10° on the MS460 for that cut . . . ')

Philbert