First Time Clearing - Could use Some Advice / Direction

[FLRA_Dave]

Hello everyone,

I have been working on the same lot (first time doing something like this) for just over 5 months now… It’s taking way too long. I only have about a month or so before the homeowner is going to want the job completed. I was paying a few guys to help me for the first couple months, but I don’t think the $7/hr they were getting paid was enough to keep them coming back – although that’s better than the $3/hr or so that I’m making. I’m not getting paid to remove these trees… I just get to keep the wood in return for taking them down. I sell most of the wood at $50 a 1/3rd cord – mostly because its fresh cut / split. That way I can at least pay for the gas to keep working the lot.

Here is an aerial shot (green is area being cleared and red line is path out):

When I started I was able to drive my Dakota and 6.33’ x 12’ trailer (2000 lb payload) to the tree line. I used my X534 to help keep the area clear and to pull the smaller logs into the clearing:

Things were starting to get a bit muddy / loose at times, so I picked up some Terra Grip Traction Belts. They worked extremely well to navigate and pull 8’-16’ (depending on diameter) out of the woods to the open area for loading. I would pull or push / roll with the blade.

The lot is 40 minutes away from my house and I only have a few hours on Saturday mornings to get work done. Occasionally I can go there after work and get an hour or so in. Figure 6 hours max / week at the lot.
So I had the thought to load just the logs and cut and split at home during the week. First I used my engine hoist to load the trailer.

That was a bit cumbersome… So I mounted a HF pickup truck crane to the side of my trailer. This worked much better (the winch wore out and I replaced it with a higher rated boat winch that I had).

[video=youtube;LNxxQHY7QdU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNxxQHY7QdU[/video]

 

[FLRA_Dave]

My splitting area (modified Deere Model 52 splitter).

Then the snow fence was put up around the property (mostly for people on snowmobiles) and I couldn’t drive into the property anymore. So I had to switch to using a sled to move equipment / wood in and out.

In January I went crazy and took out at loan to buy a 1950 8N with back blade and PHD for $2,200.

I brought the X534 back home for snow plowing duty and took the 8N over to the lot. I used the Back blade to clean up the area and to carry the wood back to the truck.

Meanwhile back home… I purchased a Speeco slip on 4 way wedge from TSC for ~$65 to speed up the splitting (much improved!).

 

[FLRA_Dave]

The 8N / BB combo was doing the job, but it was taking me about 45 minutes to load up the back of the truck with about 1/3 cord.

I purchased a County Line 500 lb capacity Boom Pole from TSC to try and load logs onto the trailer… but without a ground guy it was just too time consuming.
So I went behind my wife’s back :msp_scared: and bought a County Line Carry All from the local TSC - Much better way of getting the wood to the trailer.

Then I got an email from the homeowners son… he was concerned about the ruts that I was leaving in the yard from the tractor (March weather for ya) and asked me to stop running the tractor until it either froze or dried out – bummer. It was getting a bit soggy in the woods as well – almost got stuck a few times.

So for right now I’m dropping trees and limbing / bucking to firewood length where they fall (some are currently in 6”-8” of water and will stay there until it dries up a little.
Side note… I also have to burn everything that I don’t take from what I cut down. That just adds to the time it takes to get the job done.

So far I have taken ~13 cords off the lot… with maybe 2-3 cords worth currently on the ground.
I have 232 man hours (325 if you want to include drive time) invested… and counting. So about 1/17th of a cord per hour to get to a stacked pile at home??? A bit depressing isn’t it?

Here is my current list of tools to get the job done:
- 1950 8N (Back Blade, Carry All, & Boom Pole)
- Poulan 2055 with 20” B&C (from my toasted PP4620AVL – Brother in law barrowed and used straight gas. One month old)
- 12” Husqvarna Timber Tong
- Deere Model 52 Splitter with Speeco 4 way slip on wedge
- 2008 Dodge Dakota QC
- 6.33’ x 12’ trailer (2000 lb payload capacity)
- STIHL 018C (14” B&C)
- Plastic utility sled
- Assorted chains / straps

I realize that has become an upside down job, but what tools / upgrades do I need (on a reasonable budget) to up my production / be more efficient? Or is it just the method of how I’m doing the job - Not using my current tools to their full potential??? Might help the next time I do something like this…
Thanks everyone…. I’m sure plenty of you will help straighten me out.

 

[greenskeeper]

everybody has deadlines, but getting a lot cleared for free I don't see how they can get upset, especially if no specific finish date was agreed upon.

Looks like you really need a backhoe, I do want to see a video of the JD tractor skidding tree trunks around :msp_biggrin:

 

[jrider]

While I admire your willingness to work hard, 6 hours a week and virtually no equipment for doing a job this size isn't going to cut it. And paying people $7 to do wood work and expect them to show up time after time and work hard is not realistic around here. Hell, I pay highschool kids $10 an hour to help me when I need it. If you are looking to get it done, you need to spend some serious time there and get your hands on some equipment that's capable of moving logs on a much larger scale than what you are doing.

 

[Jredsjeep]

sounds like you are working for tools at this point. i am not a pro but it is usually far faster to drag out logs to cut up later on my property than buck them up and load them on site. handling many small pieces vs a few big ones.

if the owner is asking you to back off when you can get the wood (sounds like for good reason) i would let him know that this is negativly going to affect his timeline. you can work with that but that it WILL push things out.

can you use the tractor to haul the trailer in to load logs directly on. the closer you can get to the wood the easier it is.

 

[farmer steve]

can you use the tractor to haul the trailer in to load logs directly on. the closer you can get to the wood the easier it is.

thats what i do, then pull the trailer out to the truck.that old 8n is a good ole tractor.i like your optimism,you already trying to figure how to do it easier the "next time" FS.

 

[cmsmoke]

Being a one man operation is going to take time. Load the logs on froze/dry days (I wouldn't want the ruts either) and it's not productive to work in those conditions. When it's wet cut and split or go to the site and drop, burn brush and clean up.

 

[nathon918]

well first off you have plenty of tools to do this, but you need to go about it totally different.

i grew up logging, we first started pulling wood with a 53 Ford NNA, believe me your 8N will pull some wood.
you really need to focus on one thing at a time, you waste too much time cutting to trailer/truck length, then hauling that little bit of wood out.

if i were you i would go in cut it all down! start in the back and drop them the oppsite of the direction they will be pulled, from your pics i would say drop them toward the train tracks.
then after its all dropped go in and clear out an area(landing) atleast 2 tree lengths long. then start pulling logs to that landing (start closest to the landing and work your way back) then limb the logs on the landing then pull them ahead out of the brush and pile them up. this accomplishes 2 things, 1 it gets all of the brush in 1 location so when your done the job just chip it or in your case light it up. and 2 all of your logs are accesible to buck and load into the truck/trailer.

as for the ruts from the tractor, you should only need to in the yard to get the tractor to the lot, and maybe just to pull the trees that are on the edge of the yard. 90% of your work should be in the woods.

 

[FLRA_Dave]

everybody has deadlines, but getting a lot cleared for free I don't see how they can get upset, especially if no specific finish date was agreed upon.

Looks like you really need a backhoe, I do want to see a video of the JD tractor skidding tree trunks around :msp_biggrin:

Yeah... That X534 won't pull any large logs out, but it holds its own. Locking the differential really helps. It isn't on the lot right now... otherwise I'd take a video.

While I admire your willingness to work hard, 6 hours a week and virtually no equipment for doing a job this size isn't going to cut it. And paying people $7 to do wood work and expect them to show up time after time and work hard is not realistic around here. Hell, I pay highschool kids $10 an hour to help me when I need it. If you are looking to get it done, you need to spend some serious time there and get your hands on some equipment that's capable of moving logs on a much larger scale than what you are doing.

Well... the $7hr is just what it came out to be. Had we been more efficient it would have yielded better pay rates... but I know what you're saying. I wish I could spend more time there, but I work 7am - 5pm M-F and my wife works 12 hr shifts overnights on the weekends so I got the 3 kids (7, 3, and 1) so she can sleep.

sounds like you are working for tools at this point. i am not a pro but it is usually far faster to drag out logs to cut up later on my property than buck them up and load them on site. handling many small pieces vs a few big ones.

if the owner is asking you to back off when you can get the wood (sounds like for good reason) i would let him know that this is negativly going to affect his timeline. you can work with that but that it WILL push things out.

can you use the tractor to haul the trailer in to load logs directly on. the closer you can get to the wood the easier it is.

I can take the trailer in once the weather is more favorable... and that's what I would normally do. The guy just doesn't seem to like the bar treads in his yard. I might have to get my brother (would cost me $300) to bring a skid steer with a rock hound to smooth everything out when I'm done.

 

[FLRA_Dave]

thats what i do, then pull the trailer out to the truck.that old 8n is a good ole tractor.i like your optimism,you already trying to figure how to do it easier the "next time" FS.

The truck actually does a better job at keeping the impact to the yard to a minimum - No lugs digging into the ground. That... And I really don't like hooking up to my trailer when it's loaded. I have to get out of my truck a half dozen times to make sure I can drop it on the ball without missing / smacking anything. I could just be bad and lining up though....

 

[FLRA_Dave]

Being a one man operation is going to take time. Load the logs on froze/dry days (I wouldn't want the ruts either) and it's not productive to work in those conditions. When it's wet cut and split or go to the site and drop, burn brush and clean up.

That's what I was leaning towards. Stage the wood for a few days of removal when conditions are right. Might be able to get a 14 wheel dump to help with transport (30 miles away) - would just cost me fuel. Loading the dump would be the tricky part though...

 

[Whitespider]

...but you need to go about it totally different...
...you waste too much time cutting to trailer/truck length, then hauling that little bit of wood out.

That's what I was thinking. I'm no logger, but I agree 100% with nathon918... and I'd go at this just like he said.
When I tackle a job I like to do one thing at a time so you're not constantly switching tasks, tools and equipment (and hauling all of them back and forth)... as well, I always think about a way to "work smarter, not harder"... in this case, like nathon918 said, keep all the limbing and brush in one single area so you can just keep pushing it up into one pile. The time for help would be after all the cutting was done... two vehicles, your pickup and something else pulling the trailer, so you could be loading one with logs while the help hauled the other home (you'd need to figure some way for them to unload, which is usually easier and faster than loading). Maybe even three vehicles if ya' got a buddy willing to help (several of mine work for beer).

 

[FLRA_Dave]

well first off you have plenty of tools to do this, but you need to go about it totally different.

i grew up logging, we first started pulling wood with a 53 Ford NNA, believe me your 8N will pull some wood.
you really need to focus on one thing at a time, you waste too much time cutting to trailer/truck length, then hauling that little bit of wood out.

if i were you i would go in cut it all down! start in the back and drop them the oppsite of the direction they will be pulled, from your pics i would say drop them toward the train tracks.
then after its all dropped go in and clear out an area(landing) atleast 2 tree lengths long. then start pulling logs to that landing (start closest to the landing and work your way back) then limb the logs on the landing then pull them ahead out of the brush and pile them up. this accomplishes 2 things, 1 it gets all of the brush in 1 location so when your done the job just chip it or in your case light it up. and 2 all of your logs are accesible to buck and load into the truck/trailer.

as for the ruts from the tractor, you should only need to in the yard to get the tractor to the lot, and maybe just to pull the trees that are on the edge of the yard. 90% of your work should be in the woods.

I like what your saying. Unfortunately the guy was marking trees for me to take down… then wait for me to clear it out. Then mark more trees. The guy lives about 15 miles away and usually can’t be there when I am.

 

[farmer steve]

another thought is to try and get some free help in exchange for some firewood. i'm sure there is always somebody lookin for wood they dont have buy in your neck of the woods. plus nathon918's post hits the nail on the head.

 

[nathon918]

I like what your saying. Unfortunately the guy was marking trees for me to take down… then wait for me to clear it out. Then mark more trees. The guy lives about 15 miles away and usually can’t be there when I am.

well your post says "Clearing" you're doing thining/selective cutting,
without a landing theres really no way to do it efficently
id tell this guy if he wanted it done then you need to use the yard as the landing, no logging/tree company in their right mind would work it without a landing.
i understand you're doing it for the wood but with the money your making off of the wood its not worth the time you have into it!
232 hours is a serious amount of time for a job of that size.
1 guy with a cable skidder can do that job in 3-5 days including chipping the brush.

 

[FLRA_Dave]

well your post says "Clearing" you're doing thining/selective cutting,
without a landing theres really no way to do it efficently
id tell this guy if he wanted it done then you need to use the yard as the landing, no logging/tree company in their right mind would work it without a landing.
i understand you're doing it for the wood but with the money your making off of the wood its not worth the time you have into it!
232 hours is a serious amount of time for a job of that size.
1 guy with a cable skidder can do that job in 3-5 days including chipping the brush.

Well... the first 1/2 was clearing... now's he is thinning. 3-5 days... makes me feel like I have no business doing this, lol. I'll have to get some pictures of the area tomorrow while I'm there so you can see how far I am.

Also... the guy said he had some professional guys come take a look at it, but I think that since you have to drive really close to his septic tank / leach field to get back to the trees that it may have been a deal breaker.

 

[artbaldoni]

This sounds like a no win situation. I don't think you can make enough on the firewood to recoup all the dollars spent, not to mention labor time (remember labor = $). It sounds like the land owner is getting you to do a normally paid for service for basically free.

I think the main focus should be to hone your estimating/bidding skills. I think this would have been a "you pay me AND I get the wood" job for me. But in the long run if the job pays for the tools and you gain some wisdom (this is usually expensive) you came out ahead.

How many cords of wood could you buy for the $s you have invested? If you are going to do all the work it should be worthwhile.

I give you an "A" for effort though! :msp_thumbup:

 

[c5rulz]

I agree with nathon 918,

I'd drop the trees, cut off the brush and leave in woods, drag to the edge of the wood, buck up rounds and hand toss into trailer and truck since you are splitting someplace else. If you can get the truck/trailer to the tree, even better. I'd forget about the small arm wood and chuck it in the burn pile. The winch looks neat but must take way too much time.

With the distance you are traveling you want to come home with as much wood as you can carry everytime.

Cutting wood is my hobby. I generally can cut, split, load truck with as much as it will hold, and unload/stack 6-7 hours with a 17 mile drive. This is well over a face and a little shy of half cord. This place does not lend itself to a trailer and I can drive to within 50-75' of the wood, (tops, and blown down trees, or damaged).

See this thread.
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/229574.htm

Today we started on a new spot that has a good 25-30 cord of log ends and rejected culls laying in a field. This is going to have to get done before planting time. We will do this totally different. Once the snow is gone I'll load a trailer (6 x 10') with as many rounds as I can carry, 2 face and then throw a face in the truck. I'll worry about the splitting later as the plan is as quickly as possible. Since these are logs it will go very quick and will probably get a loader to use too.
However this spot now has way too much snow for access right now. So today we walked in with a saw and a splitting maul, cut a tank ful and then split it on the spot. A buddy and I only worked up a little over a face, but we didn't spend 2 hours either.

My point is adapt and work smart.:msp_thumbup:

BTW, it is starting to ad up.

BTW, I am picking up a 372XP tomorrow for these logs. My rationale is it will be quicker, yah that's it. Pics tomorrow.

 

[strangersfaces]

well first off you have plenty of tools to do this, but you need to go about it totally different.
..... cut it all down! start in the back and drop them the opposite of the direction they will be pulled, from your pics i would say drop them toward the train tracks.
then after its all dropped go in and clear out an area (landing) at least 2 tree lengths long. then start pulling logs to that landing (start closest to the landing and work your way back) then limb the logs on the landing then pull them ahead out of the brush and pile them up. this accomplishes 2 things, 1 it gets all of the brush in 1 location so when your done the job just chip it or in your case light it up. and 2 all of your logs are accessible to buck and load into the truck/trailer.
.....

Only way to go...:msp_thumbup:

I like what your saying. Unfortunately the guy was marking trees for me to take down… then wait for me to clear it out. Then mark more trees. The guy lives about 15 miles away and usually can’t be there when I am.

Perhaps a meeting with the both of you in order to mark all the remaining trees to be removed, keeping access to the landing in mind...?

Well... the first 1/2 was clearing... now's he is thinning. 3-5 days... makes me feel like I have no business doing this, lol. .......

Education costs. You've been enjoying a continuing education, learning as you go, and unlike many, have had the gumption to stick with it. Admirable...


Are the adjacent RR tracks functional and if so, are they in regular or infrequent use?

If infrequent....

A huge bottleneck your facing is in moving from woods to road, to home, so....