Free climbing?

[jimmyq]

perhaps a stupid question but, I am curious. I have been called by a customer to look at and prune a wind damaged Gleditsia. Damage was 2 years ago in mid crown area leaving the tree "fairly one sided"(I havent seen it yet), height of the tree is 25 to 30 feet (says Joe customer...)
Question 1: Am I allowed by ANSI and such to free climb this tree to do the pruning?
Question 2 : What fall protection or restraints should I have or employ?
Question 3: Where is Bob Wulkowicz these days, did he give up on all of us here?
Question 4: Will Mr. Maas tear up my post and tear a strip off me for asking this question?
Question 5: If I am not able or allowed to free climb, what are my options if I have no climbing gear or ropes?

 

[Gord]

Hmm...common sense is a good place to start. Falling to the ground from a height of thirty feet is not something I put on my "fun things to do" list. I and many other experienced tree climbers work in Burnaby and GVRD daily. Take a day here and there and find out how it's done by observing fellows on the job, not reading. Once you have seen it done buy a copy of the Tree Climbers' Companion. It'll tell you all the basics and quite a few tricks to boot. Climbing trees is not something that can be properly learned from text, it takes practical experience. Arbormaster comes to the city often as well if you wish to go that route.

 

[Koa Man]

I never free climb anything. I am tied in from the ground. I used to usually free climb about 10 ft. and then tie in. After falling about 10 ft. and receiving a compound facture on my wrist in 1989, I now tie in from the ground. I also know a guy who climbed a tree about 10 ft. up at the beach to spot fish to use his throw net. He fell and broke his back. He is in a wheelchair now.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Question 1: Am I allowed by ANSI and such to free climb this tree to do the pruning?
No, you can free climb a ladder to access the tree or look around.

Question 2 : What fall protection or restraints should I have or employ?
You need to be secured with a rope so you can't fall, and you need two seperate tie in points if you are going to use a chain saw.

Question 3: Where is Bob Wulkowicz these days, did he give up on all of us here?
I dunno.

Question 4: Will Mr. Maas tear up my post and tear a strip off me for asking this question?
I won't tear you up for asking a question. If you come here and state it's safe to free climb, then I'll cut Kneejerk Bombas loose on you.

Question 5: If I am not able or allowed to free climb, what are my options if I have no climbing gear or ropes?

Find someone with gear or buy some. It seems this is the field you want to work, for a few hundred bucks you can get some "top of the line" climbing gear and have it when you need it.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by jimmyq
If I am not able or allowed to free climb, what are my options if I have no climbing gear or ropes?

Option #1, sub it to a climber.
Option #2, buy the gear.
Option #3, somewhere in the DUH category, use pole tools. A 30' tree can be pruned entirely from the ground with a 16' pole. I use pole tools to make all possible cuts before even putting on a saddle. Saves time, and from the ground is a better perspective for making many cuts anyway.

If you need to enter the mid-tree to make cuts poletools can't make, securing yourself at the top of a ladder is not hard.

ANSI is voluntary unless you are under a contract requiring compliance, so you're "allowed" to cut branches with your teeth if you want to..

Where has Mr. Wulkie gone? Dunno; has he found a friendlier clime on the UK board? :alien:

Re 10 foot falls, I had a guy cleaning gutters at my house fall off a ladder. Shattered heelbone, 3 months in cast and out of work. Being tied in is not a bad idea. There are many ways to advance a rope; "free climbing" should be relabeled "unsecured climbing", since only if you are restrained by a rope are you free to use your whole body for working.

 

[MasterBlaster]

If you free climb, you could die.




Then who'd take care of Suzie Q?

 

[Jumper]

ANSI would have no juristiction in BC, though your provincial labour ministry likely has lots to say regarding this topic. Suggest a search of their site.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Re: Re: Free climbing?

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
...ANSI is voluntary unless you are under a contract requiring compliance, so you're "allowed" to cut branches with your teeth if you want to...

As the recognized standard, not following it opens up liability issuses. An insurance company could even refuse benifits in case of a claim.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: Re: Re: Free climbing?

Originally posted by Mike Maas
As the recognized standard, not following it opens up liability issuses.

Good point. It pays to follow the directions, or have a well-substantiated rationale for deviating from them.

 

[jimmyq]

Thanks guys, points noted. I shall go look, prune with the new pole saw I need to buy and take care of it from the ground if I can, otherwise I will sub it to my usual referral company.

 

[TREETX]

With every free climb, you can have a free fall.

No thanks

When I leave the ground I am tied in.

 

[Joe]

One could also climb using a bowline-on-a-bight. If one did this for a couple of trees, they may make enough money to buy a saddle.

I don't like polesaws. I don't care what any1 says, I think the cuts made with these things suck.

Joe

 

[Stumper]

Joe, You have already said that you don't care what anyone says but please consider----Guy has a reputation as a person who really cares about trees-he likes a polesaw. So do I. Polesaws don't HAVE to make crappy cuts. Sometimes I come down from a tree I've climbed and see a bad cut made with a handsaw from a difficult angle-I wind up fixing it with a polesaw!
Some of the most cost effective pruning that people can purchase is on young trees. Trees in which a climber can't access the places where the cuts should be. That is polesaw and polepruner territory. A small amount of $ spent on a 7-10 year old tree can save hundreds in corrective pruning in the future.:angel:

 

[Joe]

Originally posted by Stumper
Joe, You have already said that you don't care what anyone says...

I wouldn't say that except in the case of using polesaws.

but please consider----Guy has a reputation as a person who really cares about trees-he likes a polesaw.

My opinion of polesaw use and my opinion of Guy as an arborist are 2 seperate subjects.

So do I.

I don't.

Some of the most cost effective pruning that people can purchase is on young trees. Trees in which a climber can't access the places where the cuts should be.

Agreed.

That is polesaw and polepruner territory.

I use a pole pruner, a handsaw, and a chainsaw. No polesaw!

A small amount of $ spent on a 7-10 year old tree can save hundreds in corrective pruning in the future.:angel:

Yes.

Joe

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Polesaws can make good cuts, but for the most part they don't.
Many a tree I've climbed after pole saw work was done that looked ok from the ground, then when you get up there you see the horrible cuts.
That's not to say I don't use one. If I have a large tree to deadwood and the salesman gave me a half hour to get the job done, I don't have time to climb to every tip. I will climb about 2/3s of the way out and get the rest with the poles saw.
I am aware that the cuts aren't great, but that's what you get with a polesaw. Some of the really small stuff even just gets snapped off. At that point it's mostly cosmetic anyway.
If the customer wants the best job that can be done without time constraints, no way will that include a polesaw.

 

[NeTree]

I hate to state the obvious, but why are you bidding on tree work if you obviously don't even have the most basic equipment for it?

 

[rbtree]

We've had this polesaw discussion many times.

Joe, I'm casting no doubt on your abilities as a climber, and agility at accessing branch tips, nor would I dare do so about Berndt Strasser and others who eschew pole saw use.


In the real world, many many trees simply do not have a structure that allows efficiency of work---unless a pole saw is used.

As well, I must humbly disagree with the argument that correct cuts are hard to make with a pole saw. Often they allow very good positioning if one moves just a bit, so that the final cut can be made correctly. Not saying that I am perfect, far from it.... but heck, I can get in a hurry with a hand or chain saw and screw up a cut too. Then there are the occasional long conifer branches requiring shortening...sometimes just reaching them with a 14+ foot pole is tough, and so very hard to do without some rip occuring.

I think I'm as nimble ( if not quite as fast) as most good climbers at maneuvering throughout a canopy, but find that the work can be done much faster with a pole saw. And, in a nice shade tree, if one is careful, cuts can be made very cleanly and correctly. If not, then I climb out after the cut, if at all possible. So a very small percentage of cuts can end up being sloppy, especially if I get a little lazy or impatient, tired, or move too fast. Hey, no one is perfect, but that can apply to a hand saw cut too...( in shade trees, I do try to limit pole use.)

However, with conifer pruning, at least done to my specifications, it is darn near impossible to do without an extension. I would gladly challenge anyone to come prune a conifer, such as this one , as I require, which is branch lightening all the way to the tips, without a pole saw. Most likely the work could not be done completely, or it would take over twice as long.

Now I'm not talking about the idea that many conifers do not need thinning, which is often true. However, those that have developed huge, and heavy limbs, from age or previous topping, absolutely require branch lightening, often shortening, to reduce limb failure from wind or snow loading.

 

[jimmyq]

Erik.
I was not intending to do any climbing work because of the obvious liability issues and because I haven't taken any training or such for it but, that being said I do need to make a living. I told the customer that I would come look at the tree and if it something I can handle (from the ground or short, tied in ladder) then I would give him an idea of cost and we could proceed, OR, I would hand him the business card of the company I always defer to for things that are beyond my insurance, capabilities and experience. I want to go and see the tree because I want to learn, I want to see what it looks like, see if I can visualize what to do in the tree from the ground so one day when/if I climb I will be more prepared to handle the situations I encounter. I asked the question to start this thread because I honestly didn't know if it was an acceptable practice to go up a tree freestyle monkeyman. I didn't think it was but wanted to hear you fellas talk it out a bit. As for my equipment, yes there are some things I am missing, I was recently layed off from my full time retail job and have been forced to make a living through my previously part time landscaping / pruning / design business. I have most tools that I need at this point except a truck ( an Impala trunk is really quite capable but not good to haul debris or topsoil) (if anyone is interested in a 2000 Impala LS- loaded etc please call me, I am looking for a mid 90's F-250 4x4 regular cab), a pole saw / pole pruner, chainsaw and chainsaw chaps.

that got more wordy than intended....

ok, thanks again for the info guys, I am listening.

 

[NeTree]

Making a living is one thing, getting in over your head is another. Don't take it as a personal attack, but...

Bear in mind that it has taken years of hard work and public education by professionals to raise the perception of arboriculture to what it is today. A higher standard if you will. Untrained and/or unskilled people running around with ladders and working from the trunk of their car can quickly lower that public perception of the industry from a legitimate profession to a quick-buck scheme that every Tom, ****, and Harry can get into.

Is there anyone you can work with who's willing to teach you how to climb/prune etc safely and properly?

 

[FBerkel]

I'm with RB on the polesaw use.

Here's one point to consider: how many of you anti ps people never make a reduction cut one lateral lower than you would have liked, because climbing up would be too dangerous, or tiring (for old ferts like me)? I never use one from straight below, which leads to pigs ears, but from the next leader or branch over, you can frequently get a perfect angle on the cut.