Fuel Issues Anyone?

[biggus]

From the Stabil website:

I usually go through it before the two years is up - but some I've used right up to the two year mark - but usually when it's that old I just dump it into my truck (no oil mix in my stored containers).

 

[user 64030]

whats the price difference with the Aviation fuel???

Depends on where you are and how you buy it. Most self serve now is around $6.00 a gallon. This can vary up or down by more than a dollar a gallon depending on the region and airport. Fuel prices are pretty readily available online.

I see prices $5.70 - $7.80 go here ---> AirNav: Local Fuel Prices put in your zip, select 100LL AVgas, and prices within 30 days.

Now before you go, call ahead. Most airports in large cities will not sell into a container. Find a rural airport, w/out a tower (has to do w/ security controls) and you will likely find a 24/7 credit card pump for any plane than needs to refuel.

If you can find an airport w/ a repair hanger you may be able to tal them out of their drained fuel. Once drained they cannot put it back in the planes. It likely goes home w/ the mechanic or shop manager for the boat, ATVs etc., but you may get luck. Someone on here has a mechanic that keeps him stocked in free AV gas :msp_scared: Just pour through a strained funnel.

________________________________

One thing that we always fail to mention, ethanol dries the rubber lines out. Forget the moisture issues, which you can help, control buy buying small quantities etc., If you run ethanol fuel consistently you will have issues w. the rubber lines.

dw

 

[Trailtrimmer]

Any ideas just how much lead in in AV gas? I'm all about not dealing with ethanol, but I'm not a fan of breathing in lead while running a saw either.

 

[user 64030]

Another alternative, would be the Recreational Gas. A bulk fuel delivery service around here sells "recreational gas" Marathon has this in 90 or 91 octane Marine gas.

Call some bulk fuel delivery companies, see if they have an E-free gas, or if you are near a lake/river, call the marina and ask where they buy from as marina typically need e-free as well because of the proximity to water (go figure).


dw

 

[user 64030]

Go to a race shop and enquire about race gas, some is leaded some is not. Stay away from anything that says "oxiginated" that is a euphemism for ethanol. My local race shop only has the leaded 110 octane, I would prefer the AV to that as 110 is way too high.

VP fuels will sell it in cans 5 gl cans of 98 octanes or something or the VP SEF but those are expensive options, but maybe worth it in the end.


dw

 

[Modifiedmark]

I just paid $5.45 for it. I usually get it when I'm not inbetween jobs or at the beginning of a logging job, I'll burn up what I have and then use auto gas through the middle and then when I have a few days of work left, I'll start using AV gas again so its in the carbs. In 7-8 years, I have had zero gas issues and I had an 084 that I left it in there and never started it for around 2 years. It started right away 2 years later.

Like stated before, you can tell a difference when you run auto gas, the saws don't run as good or hard, they won't lug as hard, and are more picky about the adjustment screws to get them to idle right from gallon to gallon.

I don't mind saving a few bucks in the middle of a job when I know, I'm going to go through a lot of gallons of gas with multiple cutters running saws, but if there is a chance that we may have to quit for awhile and the saws sit with gas in them, I switch to 100LL, or I pour it out and refill with AV 100LL for the storage. If a saw of mine was to go down for some ignorant fuel related reason, I would be pissed and the "pain-in-the-butt" meter would be running at half mast, I'd just as soon never have moments like that.

I just went to my airport and they have self serve AV 100LL, can't beat that.


Sam

Sam your awful good at making it easy for everyone else. Problem is whats easy for you isnt always easy for everyone else.

There are NO airports here that will sell me fuel unless I bring a airplane for them to put it in.

I can also no longer buy any non ethanol fuel that I know of within 75 miles of me. I just ordered my first 5 gals of SEF yesterday. I know with the volume of fuel you go through thats not a option price wise but it should be ok for me, but I'm also not telling everyone else to do it.

 

[motobike]

Fuel Problems, Ethanol

I keep getting repeat customers in with the same problems.

When they leave my place, I give them information, on how and where to get aviation fuel. They just can't bring themselves to pay the extra money for it.

So they come back and I clean out the gunk the ethanol causes and charge them again. ??????

I'm not a psychologist; but there is something wrong here!

I did a few as comebacks when this "Green Fuel" started showing it's ugly head; but NO More.

The government caused this; I tell the customer to send the bill to them, for a reimbursement.

 

[fearofpavement]

Sam your awful good at making it easy for everyone else. Problem is whats easy for you isnt always easy for everyone else.

There are NO airports here that will sell me fuel unless I bring a airplane for them to put it in.
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Having been involved in aviation my whole life, I think there would be avgas available to you. Have you tried just going to a small airport and talking to someone about your need for avgas? ie, "Hey, I need to know where I can find a few gallons of avgas that I need for some antique chainsaws". My guess is that if they won't sell you some, they could point you in a direction. Most small airports that have self serve fuel pumps, have self serve because they are not attended all the time. I have purchased fuel all hours of the day and night whether the airport was attended or not. When the pump asks you for a registration number, just put in N0000 or something like that indicating you aren't an airplane.
To my knowledge, there is no law saying you can't use avgas in a piece of outdoor power equipment. And as far as not selling fuel unless it is going into an airplane, what about the guy that has his airplane at his own strip? Can't he buy 20 gallons so he can do some test flying on it before he heads to an airport?
If you pm me your exact location, I will do some research and see if I can find you a source for fuel. (If you want it) I am sure there is a way.

 

[borat]

I buy regular pump gas from a high volume dealer. That's all I've used since day one. I leave fuel (gasoline and diesel) over winter for a good six months every year for decades and have never had a problem.

As a matter of fact, a couple days ago, I pulled out the Jred 670 to fire it up. It had some old fuel in it but didn't have that stale gasoline smell. Maybe the oil in the gas helped preserve it. I added a bit more fresh fuel, cleaned the spark plug, dropped a bit of gas into the cylinder, fired it up on the first pull and it kept running.

The last time I ran that saw was November of 2007! I keep the Jred 630 at camp and the 670 here at home along with the Echo CS346. I seldom cut wood at home and when I do, the small saw is all I need. I remember that I cut down two large aspens in the back yard back in '07 with the 670. So that gas that was in the saw, was five years old, not counting the splash of fresh gas I added.

From the comments of many here, I'm doing everything wrong. However, I seem to be getting away with it, for well over 30 years and more than 30 pieces of equipment.

And yes, we do have ethanol in our fuel and have for many years just to take care of moisture issues during cold weather.

 

[Tommy in Wilton]

Any ideas just how much lead in in AV gas? I'm all about not dealing with ethanol, but I'm not a fan of breathing in lead while running a saw either.

Seriously illegal. I put 100LL blue fuel in my Porsche 928S2, with its 10.4:1 compression...once.

It promptly started the foul the plugs. If it does this on a car with fuel injection, you can bet that it will turn your chainsaw's plug into something that looks like the racks on a barbecue grill in a few minutes.

My car has no catalytic converter, [this is technically legal because the car is 27 years old], so the lead wasn't an issue. What WAS an issue is that the 340 hp 4.7 liter/286 cubic inch SOHC V8 simply did NOT need the octane.

-When the piston goes up on the compression stroke, the plug fires and then the combustion event takes place. Most people think that the charge simply burns smoothly and evenly, but that is not the case at all! Every combustion event is DIFFERENT. Some times the flame front moves across the cylinder, and the air is evenly heated, and wants to expand. Pressure is placed upon the piston, and everyone is happy. But that is not always the case. Sometimes, the spark fires, and the mixture burns WAY too quickly across most of the cylinder, producing a supersonic shock wave, then the edges burn slowly and actually most of the mixture burns in the exhaust after the exhaust valve opens. Thus, there is a ratio: Proper combustion cycles to improper combustion cycles.

Octane determines this ratio. Too little octane, and your engine runs hot and has low power. Too MUCH octane and your plugs foul from too low average cylinder temperature.

[Get the point yet? Engines NEED a small amount of detonation in order to maintain proper temperature!]

Modern engines have knock sensors that sense knock, and can even determine which cylinder is getting too hot. They modify the spark timing in order to maintain cylinder combustion temperature within a certain range.

-The newest cars have DIRECT INJECTION. This means the fuel is directly injected into the cylinder. This requires extremely expensive high pressure injection pumps, along with hideously expensive injectors that can survive for 200,000 miles the temperatures and pressures of the combustion chamber. The ability of these injectors to give FAR FAR FAR more control over the combustion event allows the engineers to design fuel curves that are cut to the bone; EVERYTHING these days is Corporate Average Fuel Economy. In this case, the government has mandated that the automobile companies in Detroit, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart, and Tokyo WILL improve their fuel economy. And it has worked-

[A certain "Governor" from Massachusetts would reverse all this progress-]

A dozen years ago, the government of the United States directed that gasoline companies must sell fuel with a 10% ethanol content, in order to reduce the amount of oil that we import. This was a GIGANTIC MISTAKE!!!!!!!

First of all, a gallon of ethanol actually requires MORE than one gallon of petroleum to produce!

Second, a gallon of ethanol has about 60% of the combustion energy of a gallon of petroleum. Since 10% of your fuel is now ethanol, that means that you lose about 6% of the energy. If you poured water into your gas tank, your gauge would read FULL, but I guarantee your car would go nowhere! Your fuel milage goes down by 6% immediately. That means that you pay MORE....

THIRD- Alcohol is highly hydroscopic. That means, that just like brake fluid...it WANTS(!) to absorb water. This stuff has a LUST for water! They've since banned methanol, which was used in the 1980's, due to the devastating damage it did to cars. Methanol is "wood alcohol", and it is used as RC model airplane fuel because the owners of these miniature airplanes know enough to put oil into the intakes of the tiny engines and work it through because this stuff corrodes like CRAZY! Ethanol, also known as Bacardi 151, Everclear, or moonshine, is nearly as bad. It attracts water, and anything it comes near is going to get drenched with water. Which will lead to corrosion!


Tommy in Wilton<---- I will NOT put ethanol fuel in my boat. I will NOT put ethanol fuel in my lawn mower. Or ANY of my lawn implements! I do put it in my '85 Porsche 928S2, simply because the car HAS to have 93 octane, and the local stations that sell REC-90 don't have the octane that I need. I drive 10 miles to buy gas for the boat and my implements, gas that has NO ethanol at all: REC-90.

You can find REC-90 near you at this website, which I have nothing to do with: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

I have to put the local Chevron in the tank of the Porsche, and of course....on hot days, I have an issue with vapor lock. This car is perfectly tuned, the fuel pressure is correct, and the injectors were rebuilt by Cruzin Performance a few years ago.

-Listen: This ETHANOL is a gigantic SCAM. I am all for the American farmer, but this crap is making the owners of lawnmower repair shops wealthy. Someone brings in a generator that they bought four years ago, haven't tried to start it since [hello?], and wants them to make it work. $200 later....

Ethanol is a SCAM!

 

[Tommy in Wilton]

Sam your awful good at making it easy for everyone else. Problem is whats easy for you isnt always easy for everyone else.

There are NO airports here that will sell me fuel unless I bring a airplane for them to put it in.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Having been involved in aviation my whole life, I think there would be avgas available to you. Have you tried just going to a small airport and talking to someone about your need for avgas? ie, "Hey, I need to know where I can find a few gallons of avgas that I need for some antique chainsaws". My guess is that if they won't sell you some, they could point you in a direction. Most small airports that have self serve fuel pumps, have self serve because they are not attended all the time. I have purchased fuel all hours of the day and night whether the airport was attended or not. When the pump asks you for a registration number, just put in N0000 or something like that indicating you aren't an airplane.
To my knowledge, there is no law saying you can't use avgas in a piece of outdoor power equipment. And as far as not selling fuel unless it is going into an airplane, what about the guy that has his airplane at his own strip? Can't he buy 20 gallons so he can do some test flying on it before he heads to an airport?
If you pm me your exact location, I will do some research and see if I can find you a source for fuel. (If you want it) I am sure there is a way.

Hello? I fly 757's for an airline. Most FBO's these days are onto the scam that hot-rod owners are trying to pull and WILL NOT dispense avgas into containers. Only into airplanes....

 

[chadihman]

I quit using pump gas several years ago and switched to 100LL av-gas. I'm no big expert on gas but I've found it just works better for me.

The main concern I had with pump gas was the inconsistency of it. I'm usually working different places all the time and I used to just grab my gas at whatever station I could find. My saws suffered some for that, I think. I never had any outright failures that I could attribute to the gas but I could sure tell the difference in the performance of the saw. My saws have to run right or I don't make any money.

I work at a lot of different elevations, anywhere from 1000 to 8000 feet above sea level so I'm constantly retuning my carb for peak performance. With the pump gas I'd often have to retune when switching from one jug to another that was bought at a different place. A lot of the gas stations buy their gas from a broker and that means it might come from a different refinery every load. How do you know what you're really getting?

Av-gas is consistent from place to place. It's refined to very strict standards and I've found no difference in how my saw runs no matter where I bought the gas. Av-gas is also very well filtered before delivery. It's also a little more expensive and some places won't sell it to you if you don't have an airplane or if they don't know you. But it is available and it is legal to run.

It also stores well. I leave it in my wife's weed-eater all winter and I've been doing it that way for six years with the same weed-eater. No problems.

I don't think that pump gas is as bad as some people make out. I just don't trust it not to let me down. And how are you going to know if you're getting bad gas? I wanted something that I could use and trust and not worry about and, for me anyway, av-gas is it.

I also run 100 but not sure if it's av. It does store well and it leaves a race car smell when sawing. I did a little carb adjustment after switching to 100. I wander if the race car smell is from unburnt gas due to high octane? I can't really say it has helped or hurt the power.

 

[dingeryote]

Sam your awful good at making it easy for everyone else. Problem is whats easy for you isnt always easy for everyone else.

There are NO airports here that will sell me fuel unless I bring a airplane for them to put it in.

I can also no longer buy any non ethanol fuel that I know of within 75 miles of me. I just ordered my first 5 gals of SEF yesterday. I know with the volume of fuel you go through thats not a option price wise but it should be ok for me, but I'm also not telling everyone else to do it.

Mark,

There's a Farm Bulk tank 3/4 full, with Ethanol free 91(Marathon Rec.91) treated with PRI-G 200yds. from me.
You're about an hour or so south.
If ya need, bring the gas cans and have a cup of Coffee.

No point in screwing up good old saws and doing another marathon fuel line replacement festival.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[dboyd351]

Type in pure-gas.org into your browser. It gives a list of gas stations in all 50 states and Canada. Buy your gas there, add Stabil when you get the gas - end of problem, assuming there is a station somewhat near you. Gas handled this way is good for 6 months to a year.