Generator and sizing

[Chris-PA]

so your saying you dont like that you wouldnt be able to disconnect the power that feeds the panels inside the structures?
if so, what would be the difference if he didnt have a disconnect on the pole, and the utility was fed directly from the meter socket to his panel? because as long as the panel is within 10ft of where the utility enters the building it doesnt need a disconnect.
so if there was a fire in his panel how would you disconnect power to it? gonna call the utility and ask them to come turn it off for ya???
same would apply if there was a fire started in his disconnect on the pole...

This isn't some religious crusade BTW, just an opinion. If you have a resistive short in an electrical outlet in a wall which causes a fire, and the service panel is locked, then it is harder to turn off the power. You can always go out and yank the meter. I prefer to be able to access the breakers quickly.

There are certainly other scenarios where you could have a fault, say between the meter and the panel, that having access to the panel would not help. However, there are more connections and devices downstream of the panel, and so more opportunities for failures.

 

[Whitespider]

Well actually I see Chris-PA's point... to a point. But not for a short in a wall outlet because the service panel inside the house is still unlocked and readily accessible... same for all the out-buildings. So, as far as a wall outlet fire, having the "mains" panel locked out on the pole is no different than having service run directly to the building... just like almost every "city" home is. In town, the line goes to the meter on the outside of the home, and then to the service panel on the inside of the home... the only user accessible disconnect is the panel inside the home. There is one small exception, the service panel inside the home does not have a "main" breaker... all of the "main" breakers, for all of the buildings, are located in the panel out on the pole. The lines run directly from the "mains" breakers to separate building service panels/fuse boxes.
See what I'm getting at?? All of the breakers for individual circuits, in all of the buildings, are still unlocked... only the "main" breaker is locked.

 

[Chris-PA]

Well actually I see Chris-PA's point... to a point. But not for a short in a wall outlet because the service panel inside the house is still unlocked and readily accessible... same for all the out-buildings. So, as far as a wall outlet fire, having the "mains" panel locked out on the pole is no different than having service run directly to the building... just like almost every "city" home is. In town, the line goes to the meter on the outside of the home, and then to the service panel on the inside of the home... the only user accessible disconnect is the panel inside the home. There is one small exception, the service panel inside the home does not have a "main" breaker... all of the "main" breakers, for all of the buildings, are located in the panel out on the pole. The lines run directly from the "mains" breakers to separate building service panels/fuse boxes.
See what I'm getting at?? All of the breakers for individual circuits, in all of the buildings, are still unlocked... only the "main" breaker is locked.

OK - I misunderstood what panel you were locking.

 

[stihly dan]

The new buildings in NH are new being required to have a disconnect before the meter. Not sure if its state code or the individual utility doing this.

 

[Whitespider]

The new buildings in NH are new being required to have a disconnect before the meter.

That would be damn handy.
If I wanted to replace my "mains" panel out on the pole I'd need to have the service provider pull the meter to cut power... a simple on/off lever before the meter makes a ton of sense.
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[nathon918]

That would be damn handy.
If I wanted to replace my "mains" panel out on the pole I'd need to have the service provider pull the meter to cut power... a simple on/off lever before the meter makes a ton of sense.
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really? i useto do side work with a friend thats an electrician, and we did service changes all the time, the only thing the utility company was there for was to tie the utility into the new meter socket.
i almost think a disconnect before the meter would/could be bad, atleast for theft, then anyone could pull their meter and jump it, because they do make jumpers for testing purposes. your right though it would make it nice for service changes

 

[stihly dan]

really? i useto do side work with a friend thats an electrician, and we did service changes all the time, the only thing the utility company was there for was to tie the utility into the new meter socket.
i almost think a disconnect before the meter would/could be bad, atleast for theft, then anyone could pull their meter and jump it, because they do make jumpers for testing purposes. your right though it would make it nice for service changes

Good point. It must be after the socket before the panel. All I know for sure is that its on the outside of the house. Neighbors socket rusted out and he had to have a disco installed along with the new box. Another buddy had a service brought into his garage/rental apt above, had to have one aswell.

 

[nathon918]

Good point. It must be after the socket before the panel. All I know for sure is that its on the outside of the house. Neighbors socket rusted out and he had to have a disco installed along with the new box. Another buddy had a service brought into his garage/rental apt above, had to have one aswell.

well i believe national code is or atleast MA code is that within 10ft of service entering the structure there has to be a disconect of some sort weather it be a breaker, or switchgear, etc. but a meter socket with built in disconnect or add on disconnect is acceptable as long as thats where it enters the building.
sometimes to get away from needing to have a disconnect people will run conduit along the outside near the sill to within 10ft of the breaker panel, because the panel would then be within 10ft of the service entering the building, thus not needing a disconnect... almost always looks like garbage though!

anyway since the meter socket was rusted out it was likely old/not upto current code, and having it replaced,it would then have to be to current code...

 

[legg28]

Another way to hook up a generator can be seen at generlink.com it involves getting a different meter base and you plug your generator in to it and it won't backfeed the incoming line. But it has many restrictions on generators sizes and models

 

[Chris-PA]

Another way to hook up a generator can be seen at generlink.com it involves getting a different meter base and you plug your generator in to it and it won't backfeed the incoming line. But it has many restrictions on generators sizes and models

I really like that approach best - I wish they were more commonly available.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I pull the bottle off my meter loop every time I hook my big genset to my house... It takes all the worry out of back feeding...

SR

 

[hedge hog]

I pull the bottle off my meter loop every time I hook my big genset to my house... It takes all the worry out of back feeding

that good to hear! even a little 110 generator produces plenty of high voltage on the back side of a transformer to kill man.
I installed a 200amp feed through right under the meter so would not chance back feeding .
at my friends I jerk the meter out and lay it on the ground so he chance it.

 

[hedge hog]

I really like that approach best - I wish they were more commonly available

there call transfer switch , manual , lockable, 100 amp or 200 amp , mount your outlet right to it and plug and play.
really is the safest way.

 

[kybaseball]

We didn't lose power Sunday so we ran a test run today. Everything worked great the diesel generator didn't even run hard to keep up. I watch the watt meters on the side of the transfer switch and they never got close to 2500!! So I quess we doing everything right. Thanks for all the info and help with this and everybody had some great ideas on how to do this. But for me and my family the transfer switch makes since(wife proof).

 

[Whitespider]

I pull the bottle off my meter loop every time I hook my big genset to my house...

...at my friends I jerk the meter out and lay it on the ground so he chance it.

Where I'm at it's a crime to pull the meter or mess with it in any way... only the service provider can "pull" it. The meter box is sealed with an anti-theft device of sorts, you have to cut it to remove the meter. When they come to read the meter and see that anti-theft thingy has been tampered with.... the next person to pull in your yard is a deputy sheriff.

i almost think a disconnect before the meter would/could be bad, atleast for theft...

I suppose putting a disconnect before the meter would make it a bit easier to steal from the provider... but it wouldn't make it easier to get away with. Having a disconnect just after the meter would be just as handy for what I was thinking... but then it wouldn't be part of the incoming service (installed by the service provider), because the meter is where their property ends and mine begins. My thinking is there should be a way for either party to sever the connection between the two properties. They can come pull the meter, thereby killing power at my "mains" box on the pole (my property)... but I have no way to legally disconnect my box on the pole (my property) from their service. Maybe a (lockable?) disconnect lever integrated into the meter box makes the most sense??
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[kybaseball]

Our meter here has a security ban around it that alerts them of anybody trying to take it off. The neighbor done this and they was out there with in an hour seeing what was going on. They never come to the houses for a reading anymore it is connected by internet and checks it everyday at 945. I was worried it would be wrong so I checked it for week and it was dead on.

 

[hedge hog]

Where I'm at it's a crime to pull the meter or mess with it in any way... only the service provider can "pull" it. The meter box is sealed with an anti-theft device of sorts, you have to cut it to remove the meter. When they come to read the meter and see that anti-theft thingy has been tampered with.... the next person to pull in your yard is a deputy sheriff.

around my parts they don't like it ether, but any of them would rather replace a security band than be hit with 7,500 volts from a guy that is back feeding
a transformer down stream 2 miles away with a 5 horse generator.
so they recommend you install a feed through panel or a manual transfer switch box .

 

[ponyexpress976]

How about this:

http://greenmountaingenerators.com/product/mep002a-5kw-military-diesel-generator/

Yup, that's it. I realize that most people don't have the space for one. But when it comes to someone trying to steal it...good luck! The 2a and 3a share just about everything...and there are about 10 Bahjillion of them out in the world so parts can be had. IF anything ever breaks it can be fixed as everything on these units is designed to be repaired in the field. The military filters can be converted to "civilian" screw on type filters with the addition of a simple base plate.

I'm back fed into the panel just like many others here. Simple procedure to turn off the main before anything else gets touched. My "safety" is located right between my ears. Just like the safety on all my firearms is located next to my thumb.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I don't think it's legal to pull the meter here either, but I always do it and have yet to have anyone say one word to me about it. In fact, I've had them come in and pull it themselves when they hear my genset running.

I don't have one of those auto meters though...and I really don't want one, but I know they ARE coming.

SR

 

[Jredsjeep]

I added a generator backup connection to my main panel and included a lock-out kit to help ensure the main CB is switched OFF before the breaker that feeds gen power can be switched on. My power cooperative requires this at a minimum for any permanent installation of a generator connection.

My 6.8KW gen will not power everything so there is a written start up procedure that includes shutting off all large inductive loads prior to switching over to the generator. Once the gen is switched over and things stabilize, the inductive loads get brought back online one at a time with a proper delay period in between each of them.



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i just upgraded the panel in my house last year and looked high and low for one of those bent sheet metal pieces that are probably in the $5-10 range. they don’t seem to sell them around here anymore, instead they have a nice $300 transfer switch. i was not happy about it but talking with the wifey it made her happy to be able to simply go down and flip a easily marked switch if i am away on a deployment. the way my township is they would have failed my inspection if they found out i was back feeding the box in any way. he didn't want to see one of those bent sheetmetal pieces either. i live in a pretty rural area but lately the local code guys have really stepped up there requirements. it sucked bellying up the extra $$$ but it is nice to have it now.

back feeding my house was not really an option for me before. i had an old pacific box that had NO main breaker to even shut off. now i have a fresh 200 amp box with a transfer switch sub box. i simply pull the generator up to the side of the house, plug in my cord to the outlet mounted on the house and flip the switch in the basement. Walla, my furnace, well, sump pump, freezers and living room are back on line. no rats nest of extension cords.