Generator size to run 1hp Supersplitter

[3fordasho]

I finally pulled the trigger on the Supersplitter and went with the 1hp electric motor for power. 50% of my splitting is at home and 50% at the woodlot. The plan was to pick up a generator for at the wood lot (other uses for it too) It's not real clear just how much wattage is required for starting a 1hp motor, the run wattage is well known ~1200-1500 watts but starting wattage can be anywhere from 3x to 6x that or more. Anyone have any real world experience running a true 1hp single phase motor with a generator? I was looking at a 3000w continous, 3750w peak unit but am really wondering if that is big enough?

 

[sam-tip]

From a honda page a 1 hp air compressor takes about 4500 watts at startup. But what voltage is the 1 hp super split. 110 or 220 volt?

But a 1 hp capacitor motor requires less. I would go with the higher. A 6500is would do it at either voltage. A 6500is honda will cost more than the splitter. About $3K with shipping. From these numbers I would assume the splitter is 220 volts.



Honda Generators - Wattage estimation guide

 

[3fordasho]

From a honda page a 1 hp air compressor takes about 4500 watts at startup. But what voltage is the 1 hp super split. 110 or 220 volt?

But a 1 hp capacitor motor requires less. I would go with the higher. A 6500is would do it at either voltage. A 6500is honda will cost more than the splitter. About $3K with shipping. From these numbers I would assume the splitter is 220 volts.

The motor can be set up for 110v or 220v. Just a matter of how it's wired. The wattage requirement does not change however, the amp draw drops 50% at 220v vs 110v. The confusing thing is starting power requirments are all over the place. If I need a $3k generator I'll need to change my SuperSplit order to a gas motor. I was looking at $350 -3750W max or a $500 - 6000w max type generators at Menards. Coleman powermates.

FWIW I believe the motor on the SS would be a capacitor start motor, can't be a split phase.

A 1hp motor only requires max 1500w ONCE it is running. The question is - will the start up kill a 3750W max watt rated generator?

 

[zogger]

Who made the electric motor? Call them up (have all the specs off the plate handy), talk to some engineer there, they will know exactly.

 

[1grnlwn]

All I know is my 5000W generator will not start my 110V piston air compressor. I think it depends on the load on the electric motor when starting, compressors have a load even at start. Hyd pump probably has less load but I am not sure what happens when it is real cold. I always had the feeling that if I wired the compressor for 220 it would probably start. IDK

 

[timbrjackrussel]

Watch out, some of the brushless generators don't put out a perfect sinewave. Inverter generators are more expensive but can save you in fuel costs as opposed to a brush type generator running at a constant speed(3600RPM)

 

[upsnake]

Wattage Calculator

Electric Motors..............................Rated ....Surge Watts
1/6 HP Motor................................300.... 850
1/4 HP Motor................................400.... 1150
1/3 HP Motor................................475.... 1325
1/2 HP Motor................................650.... 1800
3/4 HP Motor................................900.... 2500
1 HP Motor...................................1000.... 2800
1-1/2 HP Motor.............................1700.... 4800
2 HP Motor...................................2000.... 5900
3 HP Motor...................................3200.... 9000
5 HP Motor ...................................5000.... 13750


I would assume you would probably have to wire the motor to be 220, as 2800 watts is 23.33 amp on 120. I doubt the genny would have that big of a plug for 120.
The 5500 watt genny i have, has a couple of standard 15 amp 120 plugs. A four prong 20 amp 120, and a four prong 30 amp 220.

A 3750 genny should have 17 amp at 220. The motor would only need 11.5 amps on 220 so i would think you would be ok. (using the assumptions from the website above of course)

 

[mesupra]

I can run my 3/4 well pump wired 220v off my 4400 watt (4000 constant) cheap ass Homelight generator with 8hp Briggs. I would assume anything around a 4000 or above should be good. Most 4000 have a 220 outlet as well which is handy when connecting to your home.

 

[hardy steve]

I use a 1000 Yamaha to run a 3/4 hp ice eater .It draws about 10 amps.I would check amperage. I run a electric wheelbarrow compressor on a 2500wt home lite.No extinction cords though wont pull thru it,but I'm not sure of its draw.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Is the SS direct drive off the motor? Lot of inertia to get the flywheels spooled up. I have been wondering the same thing. I love the sound of my saws, not so, the small four stroke BS type engines. Have you posed the question to SS factory?

 

[3fordasho]

Is the SS direct drive off the motor? Lot of inertia to get the flywheels spooled up. I have been wondering the same thing. I love the sound of my saws, not so, the small four stroke BS type engines. Have you posed the question to SS factory?

My understanding is the 1725 rpm motor drives through belt and pullys to achieve ~300 rpm at the flywheels. I have asked SS for the info off the motor plate. I think I'll wait on the genny until I have the SS and can measure actual amp draw on start up.

 

[dave_dj1]

Personally I wouldn't waste a cent on one of those cheap generators! Spend a little more and get a name brand that is proven and has a dealer to stand behind it. why not just get the SS with a gas motor?

 

[3fordasho]

Personally I wouldn't waste a cent on one of those cheap generators! Spend a little more and get a name brand that is proven and has a dealer to stand behind it. why not just get the SS with a gas motor?

I'm looking for something with at least a Honda motor. I do about 1/2 my splitting at home where there is plenty of 110/220v power. In the winter it's done in the garage with closed doors.. tired of the noise and gas fumes. Get my fill of that with the chainsaws. At the wood lot I'll still have some noise from the genny but a quailty extension cord I can get that 50' or so away.

 

[zogger]

I'm looking for something with at least a Honda motor. I do about 1/2 my splitting at home where there is plenty of 110/220v power. In the winter it's done in the garage with closed doors.. tired of the noise and gas fumes. Get my fill of that with the chainsaws. At the wood lot I'll still have some noise from the genny but a quailty extension cord I can get that 50' or so away.

They have inexpensive small diesel gennies now as well, if you don't mind imports. The quality appears to be acceptable. Guys are using those engines to repower equipment and giving favorable reviews, small tractors and whatnot.

I *do* know from being in the alt energy community for so long, that most any of the inexpensive gas gennies, no matter who makes them, just don't last very long. This is from people who live off grid and actually have to rely on generators as supplements for their other systems/rigs, solar or wind, etc..

And diesel stores way longer and gives better mileage, you'll get more electricity per fuel dollar spent for sure.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

The motor can be set up for 110v or 220v. Just a matter of how it's wired. The wattage requirement does not change however, the amp draw drops 50% at 220v vs 110v. The confusing thing is starting power requirments are all over the place. If I need a $3k generator I'll need to change my SuperSplit order to a gas motor. I was looking at $350 -3750W max or a $500 - 6000w max type generators at Menards. Coleman powermates.

FWIW I believe the motor on the SS would be a capacitor start motor, can't be a split phase.

A 1hp motor only requires max 1500w ONCE it is running. The question is - will the start up kill a 3750W max watt rated generator?

A wild idea crossed my mind....

If the start up wattage is the concern, what about modifying the splitter by using the belt drive as a clutch? The method of modification would depend on the design of the belt drive. My first thoughts would be to use a longer belt, and put in movable tensioner connected to a lockable lever. Disengage the clutch to start the motor. Once the motor is up to speed, slowly engage the clutch to get the flywheel up to speed.



Thoughts?

 

[Whitespider]

It’s a rare device that uses more than double the running wattage at start-up. If the running wattage is 1500 max, than I would bet start-up ain’t even double if it can be run from a standard 110/120v outlet.
Look at it this way… A standard 20A 110/120v outlet (20A x 120v = 2400 watts), and in reality a 20A circuit is designed to carry only about 85% load continuous, or 17 amps… There isn’t any way possible that start-up would be over 3000 watts if the thing can be plugged into a standard 110/120v outlet.

If a 5000W generator will not start a 110V piston air compressor… I’d be having that generator looked at, ‘cause it ain’t working correctly!

With all that said, I’d still get the larger $500.oo – 6000w max generator because you’ll probably want to use it for other things and you don’t want to be short on power. I have a 5500/6500w generator for back-up power… no problem running my whole house (with a bit of common sense). When I tested it I had all the normal stuff running or plugged in (such as lights, TVs, clocks, computers, ceiling fans, etc.), then I fired up the well pump, furnace blower, 2 window air conditioners, all four burners on the electric range, and not until I started the electric clothes dryer did the breaker on the generator let go… but it didn’t kill the engine.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

A wild idea crossed my mind....

If the start up wattage is the concern, what about modifying the splitter by using the belt drive as a clutch? The method of modification would depend on the design of the belt drive. My first thoughts would be to use a longer belt, and put in movable tensioner connected to a lockable lever. Disengage the clutch to start the motor. Once the motor is up to speed, slowly engage the clutch to get the flywheel up to speed.



Thoughts?

I like the idea of an over center belt clutch if it can be done easily. Then you could surely get by with one of the whisper quiet Honda generators, which I have, (no super split though). I said earlier I like saw noise, but hate splitter engine noise. Can't explain it, but if you watch youtube vid of electric SS, it is almost tranquility!

 

[3fordasho]

I like the idea of an over center belt clutch if it can be done easily. Then you could surely get by with one of the whisper quiet Honda generators, which I have, (no super split though). I said earlier I like saw noise, but hate splitter engine noise. Can't explain it, but if you watch youtube vid of electric SS, it is almost tranquility!

I like the way you think ;-) The idea would be to get by with the smallest/lightest/quietest generator possible. Not much efficiency in having a 6000 watt, 200lb generator run a 1000w load. A co-worker suggested getting the flywheels spinning before applying power. Don't know the practicality /accessability of doing that- I'm pretty sure those flywheels are well covered up. I too don't mind the noise from chainsaws, but that 13hp honda clone on my 27ton splitter sure drives me nuts.

 

[Whitespider]

Not much efficiency in having a 6000 watt, 200lb generator run a 1000w load.

Actually there is.
Running a gasoline powered generator at, or close to, maximum capacity uses a lot of fuel and creates a ton of generator destroying heat; running one at, or below 1/2 capacity creates minimal heat and sips fuel. A 5000w generator running a 1000w load will last 10-times as long and use a lot less fuel than a 1200w generator running the same 1000w load. When it comes to generators, the question of efficiency is not answered with "smaller is better." In fact, 50% capacity is where most are bench-marked as far as fuel efficiency, run time and life expectancy.

 

[zogger]

I like the way you think ;-) The idea would be to get by with the smallest/lightest/quietest generator possible. Not much efficiency in having a 6000 watt, 200lb generator run a 1000w load. A co-worker suggested getting the flywheels spinning before applying power. Don't know the practicality /accessability of doing that- I'm pretty sure those flywheels are well covered up. I too don't mind the noise from chainsaws, but that 13hp honda clone on my 27ton splitter sure drives me nuts.

Put a car muffler on it.