Geothermal just installed and first $1300 dollar power bill is here

[bassman]

My cousin installed geo and was bragging about how cheap it will be .
his first $1300 dollar power bill just showed up and he is pissed.
the installer said if the ground temp is not up the power will kick in to help.
his last bill was $178 befor the geo and now $1300 .
I can see how this thing will pay for itself in only 5 years ..... ya right.

 

[Ductape]

Is it possible to have an electric bill that high??? I would guess electric baseboards wouldn't be $500 in the coldest of months.

 

[bigbadbob]

Guess I won't complain about my $70 gas bill!!!
Geo is trying to get in here, but it seems expensive to install and if you have problems it's even more!!!

Sounds like his geo isn't even working as the earth temp is pretty constant.

 

[rx7145]

That's 13000Kwh!!:jawdrop:



I don't see how that could be right.

 

[allthegross]

geothermal?

just what is geothermal and how exactly does it work? i know i should know this but i guess thats why im here.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

$1300 does seem like an excessive bill. Could it be that the lines are reversed and he is heating the ground outside ? or they arent buried deep enough to get to warm earth ?

The theory seems good but the application might not be quite correct.

 

[bassman]

I saw the setup and it looks bad, real bad.
the installer is new and in my opinion has no idea what he is doing .
I asked how the system works and he dosent really know!!
all I know is that you flip the breaker for the geo system and the power meter almost stops and flip it on and it spins like a top..
I will keep you all posted on what is going on .

 

[blis]

definately sounds like a faulty install or too short loops... since over here geo never goes on back-up electric heating even in the coldest months...

Any idea how much tubing is there in ground and how deep it is dug?

 

[mryb]

You wanna sell your GEO thermal unit cheap since it ain't working?

 

[joecool85]

Wow, that's a crazy electric bill. Definetely something wrong there. While geothermal does raise the electric bill, it shouldn't be THAT much! Sounds like the new installer isn't so good...

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Better call a lawyer

 

[leon]

geothermal etc.

My cousin installed geo and was bragging about how cheap it will be .
his first $1300 dollar power bill just showed up and he is pissed.
the installer said if the ground temp is not up the power will kick in to help.
his last bill was $178 befor the geo and now $1300 .
I can see how this thing will pay for itself in only 5 years ..... ya right.

Ok aside from the fact that something is very very wrong lets back up the bus over the dead carcass in the road.

First things first!!!!!

What is the transfer medium, glycol, water, alcohol?


Is the geothermal system a vertical loop with many drilled holes(280 feet deep) and transfer loops or a shallow dug trench typically over 1000 feet long 18 inches deep or more with a return loop?

Or is the system an open loop with well or creek water returning the water to its source? If so is the water returned to a deeper level for summer use and a shallow well for winter or heating exchange?



Oh well lets dip into the stupid part now!!!!!

Was a bentonite grout(with my favorite scam being thermally enhanceed grout used to fill the holes surrounding the loops if so uh oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

That is why one should always use mason sand as a transfer medium any way with pipe loops- or a semi open loop well system with a deep well.






They neglected to tell you that bentonite clay regardless of it percentage in the mix "is and always will be" a net insulator in regard to transfer of temperature

"Kelvins laws 1 and 2 of fluid thermodynamics are never wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

There may be air in the system, the loops may have a hole which can and will kill the pump or pumps.

If the shallow buried loop is less than four feet below the surface the benefit of the thermal mass of the earth is wasted as ground temperatures are 52 degrees or less at that depth.

If thermally enhanced grout was used to cover the shallow buried loop shame on the contractor=idiot.


Please let us know more;

Signed a concerned NYSDEC certified water well driller and pump installer.

 

[reaperman]

I dont know much about heat pump operations. But have dug a few in for work (heavy equipment operator). People automatically think the ground maintains a constant temp. Which it does, at the proper depth. I know for a fact during the winter months the ground temp does fluctuate. The frost depth is different year. Some years the frost may reach 5 feet in my area, others maybe 3. Point being, if the frost is say, 4 feet deep, the ground at 5 feet will be much cooler than the 55 degrees of whatever ground temp is suppose to be. Soil type also dictates ground temp, as sandy soils have more air between particles, so cooler temps can travel deeper in sandy soils than heavier clays. A good example is anyone who has a domestic well. The water lines are buried deep to avoid frost. But the water coming out of your faucet is much colder in the winter than summer. And vise versa in summer. When digging in a heat pump. I'd dig no less than 10 feet deep, or stop at groundwater depth, groundwater temp should never fluctuate. Being from Canada, I'd hope the lines are deep enough.

For an expermint, I just went outside and ran some water from a yard hydrant that hasnt been turned on since fall. I measured the water temp with a IR gun. The water temp was 40 degrees. I check it 5 or 6 times to get a average reading. This water line is 6 feet deep. I dug it in 1 1/2 yrs ago. I know for a fact the water temp in the summer is nowhere near 40 degrees.

 

[Mountaineer]

Dig it up and fill it in again, get paid twice

The contractor doesn't have any motivation to do it right. He has the selling point of geothermal. He has the contract to say you have to pay. And know one knows enough about it to say he did anything wrong. It's a perfect money maker. Then when it's screwed up, you can pay him to dig it up and fill it in again. (Like they do with the roads around here)

 

[jjrobo]

Could it be running on a 220 backup/auxiliary system only? I have an open loop that comes from my well, and then dumps into my creek. My elec. bill never goes above $230 at the coldest times in the winter and the hottest times in the summer. If it gets below 10F for more than a day my auxiliary is needed to keep the temp at 70F. My average elec. bill is ~$160.

 

[windthrown]

This is more likely a heat pump using water/fluid in a loop than a true geothermal vent. Lots of these types of heat pumps are being installed lately. I was thinking of driving a heat pump here using a pelton wheel off of a water line from a pond that we have above the house. Good head height and lots of flow. Direct drive pumps, no electricity. Or use a pelton wheel to drive a generator to drive pumps for a water loop and a compressor for a heat exchanger. I can get 1,000 watts from a pelton wheel easy.

This also reminds me of an active solar heating system that we installed back in the late 1970s. Turned it on, and the cost of heating for a pool went way UP!!! Some valves had to be changed and plumbing refitted, and then it worked right. Chances are that the guy here is heating the ground and not the house... chances are that he has to reverse the system.

 

[omegajim]

could the installer have hooked up the geo in such a way when you flip the switch it turns EVERYTHING on, including the supplementary / auxillary electric heater?

That's my two cents. Find the owner's manual, or better yet contact the mfg, they must have seen this before.

 

[Festus Haggen]

There is always a way to get it put right, might take years though. Probably be cheaper at this rate to rip it out and hire someone to do it right. I'd call the equipment manufacturer, the installer always gets blamed in these cases, sure he did something backwards. Sounds like somebody saw a goldmine and slapped some "Billy Bob's Geothermal" magnetic signs on his truck. And yeah, sounds like a heat pump, not real geo. My uncle lived in Iceland for a few years, they have real geothermal there, sometimes too much!

Personally, if it happened to me, the guy would walk with a limp. Hope it all gets straightened out.

 

[Kansas]

Sounds like a heat pump to me too but I dont know much about them.

Even here they insulate the ground with atleast 3-4" of styrofoam under the concrete so the heat will go up where it belongs.

I would be pissed too! He could have done a wood burner for what that one bill is.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

If the electric meter starts spinning when the switch is thrown - it sounds like the Auxilary Emergency heating elements (large toaster) are running. I would certainly get someone that knows something about HVAC and have the system looked at ASAP. You might even be able to get a Factory Rep from the company that made the system to come out and have a look and see what is going wrong.

Are we talking about a normal size house - or is this a large mansion or lodge where a $ 1,300 electric bill should be expected?

I have a new fancy schmancy Carrier Heat pump system and it is very sophisticated and does everything it can to heat the house without turning on the Emergency Heat - but if it gets really cold outside and the heat pump can't keep up - then the Auxilarly heat must kick in (in theory). The reality is that we have an outdoor Boiler (Woodmaster) and when the temperature drops consistantly below 50 degrees we fire up the boiler and turn the heat pump off. Geothermal (or a heat pump with the ground as the heat exchanger) was not a cost effective alternative for us - we chose the woodburner instead as we have lots of free wood falling down on our 27 acres. Our electric bill last month for our 2,200 square foot home and 2,000 square foot garage was $ 56 - and I think most of that was the electric clothes drier. The woodburner is heating our house, garage and water.

Get an expert to look at that system and get the original contractor to stand behind the work if it is not installed correctly - or the manufacturer to stand behind their product if the equipment is not working properly.