Getting serious about lo-pro

[mtngun]

I'm thinking the only picco bars that Stihl sells are for little saws and the small bar tips probably won't fit big bars.

Logosol would be the most like source, but they don't list picco tips on their website.

 

[BobL]

I'm thinking the only picco bars that Stihl sells are for little saws and the small bar tips probably won't fit big bars.

Logosol would be the most like source, but they don't list picco tips on their website.

The 050 GB bars are only about 3" wide.

 

[Brmorgan]

Mtngun, all my tips raise the chain obove the bar like in your picture and give me no problem. Try milling with it.

That's what the nose sprocket is supposed to do, otherwise there's no advantage to a sprocket tip over a hardnose bar. If the chain is riding on the nose, the sprocket is worn out and the nose will soon spread and jam the chain.

 

[mtngun]

Well, I was headed to the woods first thing this morning, to resume testing injecta-sharp lo-pro with the revised 3/8" nose tip, but ....

......on the way, someone flagged me down and asked for help. He was from Chicago, on vacation, and had been doing a little sightseeing yesterday afternoon, when he'd blown a tire, only to discover his new used car did not have a spare. He spent the night in the car, listening to wolves howl (penned hybrid wolves, belonging to someone who lived nearby, but he assumed it was a pack of wild wolves ), and waiting to be rescued. I couldn't just leave him stranded there, so I had to cancel milling and take the guy to town to get a new tire. Oh, well, I've been "rescued" a few times myself, so I was glad to pay it back.

So, no milling pics today. Instead, you'll have to settle for a pic of the deer that's just outside my window as I type this.

 

[BobL]

Well, I was headed to the woods first thing this morning, to resume testing injecta-sharp lo-pro with the revised 3/8" nose tip, but ....

.
.
.
Oh, well, I've been "rescued" a few times myself, so I was glad to pay it back.

On ya mtngun - that sort of stuff comes around if you

So, no milling pics today. Instead, you'll have to settle for a pic of the deer that's just outside my window as I type this.

Nice one!

This weekend we're doing a bit of tourist grade hiking in Banff national park.
Here is a few of my wildlife shots from our Lake Louise Hike this morning.
I recently bought a 70 - 200 F4 IS L series canon and it is gem for this sort of stuff.

I don't have a clue what these things are but they are cute and unusual to us

and this old fella was peaking over a cliff high above us for about half and hour - cool as a cucumber.

OK I guess we can call this non-native wildlife

 

[mtngun]

Awesome pics, Bob.
First fellow is a squirrel, not sure the exact variety, but I call those "pine squirrels," because they live in our Western pines and firs.

Second fellow is a chipmunk. As with the squirrel, there might be a fancier name for that particular variety.

Your camera makes the mountain goat look very close. I've never had much luck getting close to a goat. They are usually on top of a cliff where they are difficult to approach.

The old goat in the last picture looks to be pretty high up. What was your elevation ? Did you walk there, or dirve ?

I take it no bears posed for the camera ?

 

[Brmorgan]

Nice pics Bob! Looks like a common Red Squirrel to me, though not quite as red as the ones out here tend to be. If you hang out in the mountains long enough, you'll see those bloody mountain goats in places that you would swear it should be impossible for any living creature but a bird to reach. The kicker is that their little ones are born up on the cliffs like that and they learn to step nimbly very quickly.

Those sure are nice lenses, eh? It'll come in very handy in that neck of the woods. My friend had one for a while, then upgraded to the f/2.8 before he switched over to Nikon completely. I got to play around with it a bit. I like my Tokina 2.8 70-200 well enough, but it can't compete with the L-series.

Something you may be interested in seeing that's a short drive from Calgary is the "Big Rock" down just west of Okotoks on Highway 7. It's a huge rock (or rather a couple huge rocks that used to be one larger one) the size of a house out in the middle of nowhere, that was pushed there by the glaciers in the last ice age. I have some pictures of it somewhere from my last trip over there a few years back, but I can't find them right now.

Mtngun, that sucks on missing out on the milling, but as you said it's nice when you're on the receiving end of such help too. Good on ya.

 

[BobL]

Cheers guys - thanks for the info about the animals.

That lens sure is nice. I was going to get the F2.8 version but it's twice the weight of the F4, and when traveling - especially uphill, every oz of weight means something

We made it up past the tea house to the 6 glaciers plain behind Lake Louise which is at 6900 ft. It was an 8 mile round trip with a vertical gain of about 1200 ft. I don't mind walking such a distance, but its the vertical that gets me, especially coming down.

Well spotted about the goat mtngun - the goat image is a cropped one.

Here's the original.

But 15Mp, a monopod and a good lens with IS allows for a fair bit of cropping.
This is original Pixel for Pixel representation of the image.

And here is the first one I posted for comparative purposes.

 

[mtngun]

I'd never given the matter any thought, but Wiki says "pine squirrel" and "red squirrel" are two common names for the same critter.

Those squirrels are annoying when you are hunting big game. If a squirrel spots you, they make a loud squirrel noise to sound an alarm -- and they don't shut up, either.

Squirrels in the eastern US are bigger and fatter. When I was growing up in Arkansas, squirrel was often on the menu.

 

[mtngun]

No news is good news

The thinned 3/8" nose performed well on its first day in the woods. There is no visible wear on the teeth, and the sprocket spins freely.

Note that I now tighten the locknut pretty snug, since there is no way it can pinch the 1" diameter sprocket bearing.

 

[B_Turner]

I posted this info on the chainsaw forum, but will add it here, too.

In the interest of science, knowledge, and truth, I cut off one side of a 3/8 rim sprocket so we could visually inspect how the drive links fit on the sprocket teeth.

The rim is a moderately well used Oregon 3/8-7. Made of hardened tool steel, it was tough to cut, however, no effort was spared for the benefit of my good friends on AS.

Showing new 3/8 Oregon chain. Since I have no way to apply torque, the drive links are not necessarily pulled tight against the sprocket teeth, however, you can see that if it were pulled tight, it would fit fairly well.

Showing new Oregon lo-pro. Only 2 drive links make positive contact with the sprocket teeth. The other drive links overshoot the teeth. Even though lo-pro has the same pitch as 3/8, a slightly larger rim diameter would be necessary to compensate for lo-pro's narrower side links (a picco rim does have a larger diameter, but I suspect it would be too large for lo-pro).

Showing used Carlton lo-pro. Again, only 2 drive links make positive contact while the others overshoot the sprocket teeth.

Well, I hate to admit it, but Saw Troll was half right. The difference in the height of the side links does affect the way lo-pro fits a rim sprocket (dunno about how lo-pro fits on a 3/8 SPUR sprocket). The drive forces will be carried by only 2 drive links instead of the usual 3. That's more stress per tooth.

That said, it's not the end of the world. People have done it, are doing it, and will continue to do it until lo-pro rim sprockets are made available.

This is the first I have read this particular thread. I am loving these pics of the cutawayed sprocket as this is something I have thought alot about but didn't have a good way to do.

Bottom line is I wish more choices were available to use stihl picco sprockets as 1) they are bigger and I am guessing fit the picco chains well and 2) the picco chain IMO is a much better quality chain (much better chassis) than the other LP chains. (Although it has a wider kerf than some other LPs.

 

[mtngun]

I thought someone had mentioned that their GB 3/8 bar nose had fit lo-pro without modification, so I recently picked up a made-in-Oz GB Frostbite bar for my soon-to-be 'Kita 84cc mini-milling saw. Turns out the nose teeth are 0.062" thick, just like most other brands, and consequently won't fit between the lo-pro side links.

Oh well, I'll thin the teeth so they do fit.

 

[srcarr52]

mtngun

Any updates on the lo-pro milling situation? How is the new spearing sprocket tip holding up?

I've been watching this thread for a while. opcorn:

Now I'm soon to start trying this combo on some precious Iowa Oak. I'm hoping the narrow kerf will help keep less in saw dust and more in my projects.

My plan is to keep the cutter bite to a minimum and regain the cut time with chains speed to produce a better finish. Right now I have a 32" GB Ti bar on my ported Husqvarna 288xp. Might be a little bit too much power so I'll leave the rakers high and resit the urge to push it hard. I might try to find a more sacrificial bar for the experiment.

What was the final diameter of the converted to lo-pro 8 pin 404 sprocket?

 

[mtngun]

My lo-pro milling saw exploded a piston last fall, so I haven't been able to use lo-pro since then.

The thinned nose sprocket was working fine and dandy.

Darn it, I'm sure I calculated the correct OD for an 8 pin lo-pro rim, but apparently I never posted it to this thread. The only way to know for sure is to draw it out in CAD.

The one 8 pin rim that I did make measures 1.665" - 1.670". The measurements varied because the rim was a bit worse for wear after being used as a guinea pig in the heat treat experiments.

 

[srcarr52]

I'll give her a try at 1.670". I don't think the chain will notice 0.005" in diameter.

I did pick up a used 32" power match so i can keep the GB bar nice. I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[mtngun]

Speed data for another 066 top end, as described on the chainsaw forum.

The usual 12 1/4" ponderosa pine cant, 7 pin rims, and a standard grind on WP milling chains.

lo-pro -- 0.95 inch/sec

3/8 -- 0.82 inch/sec

lo-pro was 16% faster on this particular top end. I suspect it would pull an 8 pin on the pine cant, and maybe boost the lo-pro speed a bit, but I'll stick with the 7 pin for real world milling -- it's easier on the saw, especially on big logs.

For comparison, here's a summary of previous speed tests on 12 1/4" pine cants, 3/8" chain only (don't have the lo-pro data at my fingertips), the average of 3 tests over a 24" length:

0.64 inch/sec -- a popped & ported old-style 066BB that wasn't sealing very well.

0.62 inch/sec -- stock new-style NWP 066BB

0.59 inch/sec -- ported NWP 84cc Makita, 24" bar & cross-cut chain

0.57 inch/sec -- popped & ported OEM 066 that wasn't sealing very well.

0.45 inch/sec -- stock NWP 84cc Makita with no base gasket, 24" bar & cross-cut chain.

My pine cant has gotten drier and punkier since I began these tests, so no doubt speeds would be slower if the wood were more solid.

 

[willbarryrec]

Thanks for the info!

 

[mtngun]

As discussed in the Oldsaw's hook thread, a lo-pro chain ground 40/10/10 averaged 1.24 inch/sec, using the same 066 and the same pine cant as in post #176.

That's moving right along by CSM standards !

Let's see if we can summarize my lo-pro speed tests to date:

1.24 inch/sec -- 40/10/10 grind, hot rod 066 & 36" bar

0.95 inch/sec -- 60/10/10, hot rod 066 & 36" bar

0.81 inch/sec -- 60/10/10, stock new-style NWP 066BB

0.76 inch/sec -- 60/10/10, popped & ported 066BB that didn't seal well

0.73 inch/sec -- 60/10/10, popped & ported OEM 066 that didn't seal well

0.69 inch/sec -- 60/10/10, old-style 066BB that didn't seal well

 

[mtngun]

Finally broke one. This is my most used and most worn lo-pro chain. It spent most of its life on the 066 with a 36" bar. The teeth are nearing the end of their life.

At the time it broke, it was on the 84cc ported Dolkita, with a 24" bar, and was only a couple inches into a 18" log. I was running without an aux oiler because I'd forgot to bring it, dunno if that contributed to the break.

I patched it back together and will continue torture testing it, if it will cooperate.

 

[Philbert]

Finally broke one.

Doesn't look like that chain owes you much . . . .

Philbert