Girdling for good manners

[Treetop_Tom]

Hey,all!

Finding an abundance of good advice from you friendly folks, I come to the well again.

Some of the trees we need to take down are Norway pine, about 5 or six of them, 20-25' tall. I am allowed to burn outdoors where I live, but it is a residential area (mix of homes and wooded areas that can't reasonably be built on). We all burn leaves & such as needed (or compost), but in the interest of being a good neighbor I thought I'd girdle these pine trees and let them dry out all summer so they'd make a much less smoky fire when I fell them. Seem like a plan?

My wife is opposed to the idea for appearance's sake. But I said, heck, it's only one summer. Better than getting everyone up in arms and having a burning ordinace passed.

Of course I could rent a chipper/shredder, but that's $.

Next: So girdling is done how? Just strip the bark all the way around, or do you have to get deeper into the trunk?

Thanks again everyone.

Tom

 

[fwf]

Wood does not dry well on the stump, and in fact does not dry much even if felled and left as whole logs.

Your best bet is to drop them, cut them into 2' pieces, then stack them somewhere so they dry in a few months.

Or how about offering some free firewood to someone?

Joe

 

[Treetop_Tom]

Thanks.

One clarifying point: I wasn't too worried about the trunks drying, as I will burn off only the branches. They'll burn if you get a good fire going, but the needles send columns of smoke into the sky. My mother-in-law had someone about a mile across the valley call the fire department once- They thought the whole hill was going up.

Second, I was always under the impression that you should never burn pine or spruce or such in a fireplace as it will excessively creosote the chimney and lead to chimney fires. So I'd planned to use all my pine for outdoor fires only. Am I wrong?

Does this change anything?

Tom

 

[fwf]

Tom,

I'm going to defer to someone else on the question of burning conifers. I am strictly a hardwood person -- don't have a pine on whole farm.

You may be right about burning pine in a fireplace, but you are talking a small quantity and lots of folks now have high-efficiency boilers that burn virtually anything. But just to be safe, let's let someone else chime in.

Joe

 

[clearance]

I burn fir, hemlock,alder, birch, and maple but all of it is cut, stacked and dried for at least 10 months first. No creasote problems, but it has to be well seasoned.

 

[RatliffLogging]

I am a hickory, ash, oak, osage orange burning kind of man....Had the house fill with smoke during a softwood burning experiment....My Home owners insure...said no no. No more softwoods. Stick to the hardwoods.....Sticking to hardwood is not a problem for me since we have around 2500 or so acres under management. As for your pines I would use the guys idea above cut them down this summer while it is not muddy and chunk them up into smaller piles and burn them during a fall rain. Wood burns even if it is raining....The rain will help to keep the hot ash down.

 

[redprospector]

Tom,
If it wasn't for pine and fir we'd get mighty cold. There's not much hard wood around here. Let it season good and you shouldn't have any problems. I guess I run a brush through the flu more often than if I just burned hardwood, but that's just maintenance.

 

[Frans]

Next: So girdling is done how? Just strip the bark all the way around, or do you have to get deeper into the trunk?

Thanks again everyone.

Tom

We will disclose no means of surreptitiously destroying trees or shrubbery.
We will endeavor at all times to so conduct ourselves that our craft shall merit the highest respect and esteem of all persons.

Excerpt from: The Arborist's Creed & Principals of Practice, from Millard Blair. This is also the official creed of the Calif. Arborist's Association
Frans

 

[clearance]

Frans-thats some heavy gospell. Couldn't do it myself, not very holy, don't need everyones respect. Goes a long way to explaining why some arborists think they walk on water, but good for you for living up to such a lofty standard.

 

[MasterBlaster]

We will disclose no means of surreptitiously destroying trees or shrubbery.
We will endeavor at all times to so conduct ourselves that our craft shall merit the highest respect and esteem of all persons.

Excerpt from: The Arborist's Creed & Principals of Practice, from Millard Blair. This is also the official creed of the Calif. Arborist's Association
Frans

Dood, it's a firewood tree!

 

[Jumper]

Tom,
If it wasn't for pine and fir we'd get mighty cold. There's not much hard wood around here. Let it season good and you shouldn't have any problems. I guess I run a brush through the flu more often than if I just burned hardwood, but that's just maintenance.

Ditto for people in the interior of BC-my uncle used to burn pine exclusively as there was not other option available locally. Logs looked like they were weeping Coke when in the furnace but he neverhad any chimney fires to my knowledge.

 

[Treetop_Tom]

Thanks all. That adds a couple of cords to my stock!

Frans:

I respect what you're saying. But these are MY trees. I want to dry the branches out so they won't smoke so bad when I burn them. Further, the principle of girdling is pretty straightforward, I just wanted particulars. No sense waiting half the summer to figure out I didn't go deep enough - or for the first good wind to find out I went TOO deep.

"Course, I could do as one of the other said and burn'em in the rain. And then others have said it won't work....

But, in respect to the code, and recognizing the potential for misuse of the information, someone can e-mail or PM me and the info won't go to the general public.

Still a little confused, but I hope y'all get the idea.

Tom

 

[Stumper]

Tom, the fastest way to dry the branches is to fell the tree-they'll crisp up in a few weeks or even days if the weather is hot and dry. Girdling is a slow death-technically it will be finished as soon as it is girdled but it will stay green and appear alive for a long time. Interestingly, most of the areas of the world where firewood is the primary heatsource for homes (apart from the tropics and semitropics where people cook and huddle over open fires on the floor of the hut) are located in coniferous forests. Chimney sweeping is a good idea-particularly if you are using a pipe flue and an airtight stove. Chimney fires do occur but mostly the whole "creosote hazard" thing works out to be a marketing ploy-Buy our wood, use our cleaning kit, heat with gas, etc.

 

[rivahrat]

when i lived in oregon all we burned was pine, never any problems. and occasional brush never hurts the chimney. but not that i live in virginia i noticed that the souther yellow pine here just don't have the heat output. however id drop the tree to let it dry faster. probably a better way to keep the wife happy. the faster its gone the better in her book.

 

[Treetop_Tom]

Got it!

Thanks to everyone, my knoweldge is increased as well as my firewood stock!

Tom

 

[hornbeam]

You can cut up the stuff, and put up a sign stating free. People have been known to pick it up. What concerns me more is where the trees are? Could they be on your property boundary line or near it? There are laws governing cutting trees in the proximity of neighbors. Call the State foresters office and ask about this. This could be an expensive decision otherwise. State foresters or USDA foresters offer free advice and are familiar with the laws.

 

[Frans]

Frans-thats some heavy gospell. Couldn't do it myself, not very holy, don't need everyones respect. Goes a long way to explaining why some arborists think they walk on water, but good for you for living up to such a lofty standard.

Whats this crap about walking on water?
How about trying to seperate our trade from the low rent hacks?
You know, improve ourselves and our industry?
or how about, NOT accepting the lowest common denomintor as being normal?.
What are you about, business as usual?
Sure may be a firewood tree, but why not explore better options like cutting down the trees and splitting and stacking the wood and chipping the brush? I know others on this site has suggested just that. Why get into the paticulars of how to kill a tree?
I stand on what I said.

Frans-does not walk on water but on my own hard earned good reputation as a tree care professional :angel:

 

[clearance]

Frans-I generally mistrust arborists who make it out that they are something special. They tend to take themelves and trees to be more important than they really are in the big scheme of life. One of my friends who is I.S.A. certified writes reports for people who live in municipalities that have tree bylaws. They have to get a report from an arborist stating that the tree in question is a hazard before they can have it removed. My friend thinks, like me that you should be able to do what you want with trees that you own. He put it like this "If someone wants a tree gone, I'll say there's something wrong with it, I'll find something wrong with it, if its the healthiest tree ever I'll make something wrong with it" He does these reports cause he works for a tree service company, key word here service. Tree care is about caring for the customer, not just the trees. Thats right ma'am, we will take care of that tree, take care when we cut it down for you.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Creosote build-up is more closely related to flue temperature than tree speicies. Keep a hot fire and the creosote stays in a liquid or gas form and is lofted out the chimney. A cool smudge will allow the creosote to condense on the chimney.

Are you planning on doing an open burn of the brush? Or burning in the fireplace? Green softwoods will burn clean if you have a hot fire. You know this... give the fire lots of air and fuel. Too often people have a little smudge going and then pile on the fuel. Wrong...needs to breath.

I've read more advice to dry on the stump rather than in the log. It makes sense to me that the limbwood would dry faster, maybe not the trunk wood. The needles would act like wicks for some time. If you girdle and leave stand, you can take one tree down, have a fire, split the wood and then go onto the next one on your schedule. Taking them all down at once will lead to a big pile of branches. A pile that won't dry very fast because of ground contact and little air movement.

Cl,

Your buddies objectivity is questionable. According to most standards anyone who writes appraisals shouldn't have any connection to the contractor. It muddies the objectivity a lot. But that's the current state of affairs, at least in the US. There are a lot of foxes claiming to be vegetarians when they apply for the job of Chicken House Guard. I don't trust foxy loxy...

Frans and I can take the ethical discussion over to the "other" Cafe and discuss it there.

The philosophy of "the customer is always right" may work in retail but it doesn't hold for arbos. Back in my Evil Tom days a guy wanted his tree topped. I told him that I didn't think it was a good idea. He wanted it done so I figured that he was the boss. The tree died. I ended up in court and was held to a higher standard than the customer. Since I was the pro I was supposed to not do wrong work. I, well actually my insurance company, lost the whole works.

 

[Treetop_Tom]

Hello, all!

hornbeam: I planted the trees myself, in my in-law influenced youth (Pop-in-law believed in surrounding your property with rows of pinse for privacy. Stupid when you only have a half acre!). They are on my sie of the line.

Tom_Dunlap: Yea, the plan is now burn the brush in the open and save the trunks for the fireplace (when I get the fireplace...!). Short of chipping, I don't know what I'd do with the brush if I didn't burn it- and frankly, I don't know what I'd do with the piles of chips, needles, etc. if I chipped it!

Thanks again!

Tom