Got bow bar mounted...pics soon to follow

[McCartman]

Ok here's another silly question maybe,, But whats a bar like that for? what can it do that a normal bar can't?
Thanks
Dale M

Not a silly question - I'm wondering the same thing. In fact, I'd never seen or heard of one until I started reading posts here.

 

[Diesel JD]

more pics first problem(not injury)

Well then I already have a problem...the chain won't turn. I am attaching pics so maybe someone can see if there is any reason why it physically won't work. Maybe I am just being stupid. Joseph, I called those people at chainbar. They are good folks, but they didn't want to sell guards by themselves, said they would not line up. If anyone wants the good guards, Baileys sells the ones made by East Texas Bows...do a little research in the Bailey's sponsored forum. I got the part out of Grande Dog, the folks that answer teh phone there have no clue, because they and the bows themselves are drop shipped from Lufkin TX, not literally in stock at Baileys. I didn't want to sink any real cash into the bow except what I needed to to run it and not kill myself with it until I determine I like it or not. If I think it's too dangerous it will be a wall hanger, if I like it like 458 Lott and Chaser's friend, I will be getting teh good guards before I do any extensive cutting with it. Anyhow, I hope someone can tell me why I can't get teh chain to turn. Have a look

 

[wagonwheeler]

Diesel, I used some thick washers in place of my side cover and put the bar nuts on and got everything snugged down and lined up where I could see it and drag the chain around and that's when I found my clearance issue.

It appears that the bow is canted upward and not sitting on the bar studs true and also skewed but this is, of course, because nothing is holding it in place w/ the cover off. The bar nuts will bottom out before holding the bow unless you shim them w/ washers.

It also looks to me like the bow should be more forward, but you may not have enough DL to go any further forward. That shouldn't stop it from moving, though.

Does the chain slide freely on the bow alone? (Is the chainbrake off?)

Dunno... Hard to tell. Nothing obvious, though. But check the cutters and see if you're snaggin like I was?

 

[Pollock777]

Is that bow for a stihl saw

I have a bow on 1 of my stihls it looks nothing like that. That looks like the 16 inch ones I run on my wizz homelites. There was a bow on e-bay look close at the double grove so when you flipped it you used a different grove. This also gives you the room you need for the teeth not to hit.As far as the chain not turning? I don't know how to put pictures on the web. but I'll seeif I can get some help from a friend and put them both on.

 

[Pollock777]

I also forgot the stihl dealer told me when I bough mine that 14inch bow was the biggest you could go because of the chain hitting. The next size bow was 18 inch and that was for the 088. Am I a 100% sure no but I know that the bow I have will go on all my saws from 028 to 066 no problem with the chain hitting. hope this will help. Ill try to grt the pictures on in a day or two.

 

[wagonwheeler]

Not a silly question - I'm wondering the same thing. In fact, I'd never seen or heard of one until I started reading posts here.

458Lott has explained it very well in prior posts. Simply put, where bars get pinched, bows do not.

They are no more dangerous than a bar when used properly. Both are quite dangerous when used improperly.

 

[wagonwheeler]

Pollock, the 12" bow I've got is off an 028 but if you look at my pics the cutters contact part of the casing on my 361. Any of your Stihls have this little bulge? How about an 044 or 046 in particular? I'd like to know if it'd clear the case on them.

TIA

 

[wagonwheeler]

Diesel, is that bow slot wider than your others - looks wide on the bar studs but is hard to tell in the pics? Is it 12mm or 14mm wide? Maybe that bow is for a larger mount stihl? Is the tail end of it pinching your drum?

 

[Diesel JD]

Yes Chaser that is the bar mount for the 088 and up, but...I was told that if a bow or bar will fit over the studs...it will run. The holes line up...it goes on, and it sure doesn't "Seem" to hit anything, maybe I will have to snug it down withouth the clutch cover on and see what happens. So yeah it is the 3002 mount, but it fits great.

 

[Diesel JD]

Chaser, your point about the angle made me think that's probably what the problem is, so I went out there and adjusted the angles some and lo and behold teh chain turns. I already modded my clutch cover. I recommend if you want to keep your saw in mint condition, just find a clutch cover to fit off a used saw(busted up MS440?) and mod that one while keeping your other one in mint cond. Also, how tight should you run teh chain on a bow. what I use on my sprocketnose is much too tight. I kind of used the rules for a hardnose.
J.D.

 

[MikeInParadise]

Has anybody got any video of a bow in use? I had never heard of them before coming to this site and would be curious to see one in action!

 

[wagonwheeler]

I already modded my clutch cover. I recommend if you want to keep your saw in mint condition, just find a clutch cover to fit off a used saw(busted up MS440?) and mod that one while keeping your other one in mint cond. Also, how tight should you run teh chain on a bow. what I use on my sprocketnose is much too tight. I kind of used the rules for a hardnose.
J.D.

I was gonna get a busted cover to mod, but the side of my powerhead is what interferes - or would get gouged. I don't want to chew up the powerhead - I'd rather get another saw for this bow that doesn't have that clearance problem.

1/8" sag - enough that it'll slide good but not be sloppy. It's not turning a tight radius like a hardnose bar, just a lot of drag. I'd make sure the chain groove is already oiled plently before trying to adjust the chain since it's draggin a long way w/ no sprocket, and keep an eye on new chain for stretch since it'll add up quick on 90dl and the chain will run hotter also w/ so much more friction. I'd basically do it all by feel and keep an eye on things.

 

[458_lott]

wagonwheeler,

You are correct about the tension on the chain. The chain is long and it will run hot and stretch. As you say, just keep an eye on it. I too, adjust by feel with a bow.

There has been some conversation about bows being inherently dangerous. While they are dangerous, so are any chainsaws. Again, personal experience dictates our belief system. It is my personal belief (I can only speak for myself) that bows are no more inherently dangerous than bars in the hands of an experienced sawyer. I have years and years experience running chainsaws and in particular, bow saws. Having said that, I realize that I could make an error tomorrow. I cannot express enough about how I stay focused when running a saw. I am at heightened alert continuously. It is sort of like when I climb (mts. not trees). A mistake on my part would most certainly be fatal or at least, nearly so. At the end of a day, I am frequently exhausted and it is from concentration, not physical exertion. I believe concentration is the key to safe operation of any power equipment. Clearly we cannot do anything about equipment failure as that is frequently unpredictable. A quick safety check of equipment prior to starting and then a review of the saw at each fueling is always wise and something I practice. Guns don't kill people, people do. Saws don't cause the injury. Haphazzard operators do. Carelessness or fatigue is the culprit. That is my belief system.

 

[Diesel JD]

Well guys I finally got it to run...here are my observations...I Got it to turn by hand first, and then turned it with the powerhead. It turned very slow at first like it was hitting something. Looks like it finished slicing out that area which I had earlier modified to allow clearance. After that chain speed was only slightly less than with a sprocketnose. So after getting enough chain slop to let it slide and tight enough to keep it from jumping the tracks, I bolted the top guard back on and went to town with it. I had a few big firewood logs laying about. I was done cutting them in less than 3 minutes. I felt in no more danger than when I run the straight bar, in fact I know I do much more dangerous stuff plunge cutting with a staright bar and small dia. wood like that. I cut a little bigger stuff and I was still able to keep good control of it and keep the spurs where they need to be, but the chain slowed down tremendously in these cuts and it seemed to want to bog. It may be that the chain is still too tight on the bow and I'm paying for it or maybe the 390 is just too wimpy of a saw for this big of a bow. What kind of CID does the Homelite Super Wiz that you fellas run with the 16" bows have? I'm wondering if I'm asking too much of it. All this having been said, I plan to use extreme caution with the bow. Some users have told me horror stories and I believe them. I think the slightest serious error could cost you your life with a bow or at least rearrange your face. So with that in mind, if i make a habit of cutting with it, I will get the Stihl full face shield and order the Texas Bows guards from Baileys that really prevent any part of the chain from hitting the operator except in the face of a full scale severe kickback where the bow nose comes all the way around the handle bar. As to the questions about video, I'll try...if not I'll at least get pics of this thing in action. And I do thank everyone for their concern for my safety and their technical help. Peace.
J.D.

 

[wagonwheeler]

Some of those old saws were big and gear drive. Your bow is pretty big. This smaller bow of mine was run on an 028 for many years and so it may be a matter of friction vs. power.

 

[wagonwheeler]

I think the smallest Super Wiz was around 70cc...gear drive low rpm.

 

[458_lott]

I use Homelite Super Wiz 66s which are 4.7 cubic inch and, indeed, are gear driven. However; I have used dozens of Homelite XL-12s with bows (3.3 cu. in.) and Super XL-12s (about 3.55 cubic inch) with absolutely no problem at all. The XL-12s don't rev high and have fairly good torque for a small saw. I currently run a bow on a Poulan 3700 (3.7 cu. in.) and honestly, I believe the Homelite XL-12s did a better job. The Poulan revs considerably higher than the Homelite XL-12s and the Poulan will bog down in the cut if I lean on it with some body weight. The Super Wiz positively will not bog down. This is due to the fact that it is gear drive. One of the reasons saws are no longer gear driven is just that fact (can't stall them and you can get into trouble that way). Direct drive saws will bog and stall. A gear driven saw will come right back at you if you start to pinch in the cut. Doesn't feel too good when it is shot back into your stomach.

 

[Diesel JD]

Yeah Cahser, I was wondering if you had thought about putting in some kind of a shim to make that 12" bow fit on your 361? I know that a lot of 361s or their predecessors were run with bows. The 390 is not a real high HP saw, it's hevay and bulky, around 4hp, low revving, 64.9cc 3.9Cubes. The MS440 would be better but I am happy with it as long as I am not damaging the saw. For the bigger wood the straight bar and square chisel will be going back on. Have a good one,
J.D.

 

[wagonwheeler]

Yeah Cahser, I was wondering if you had thought about putting in some kind of a shim to make that 12" bow fit on your 361? I know that a lot of 361s or their predecessors were run with bows. The 390 is not a real high HP saw, it's hevay and bulky, around 4hp, low revving, 64.9cc 3.9Cubes.

I was thinking all along that the 390 would be perfect for a bow. And I was at my dealer today checking out powerheads and the 390, 440, 460 didn't have that little bulge that my 361 has that interferes - at least not as far forward.

I still think your 390 is good for a bow. I can ship you mine and the chain and you can slap the guards on it and give it a whirl to see how it compares.

 

[Lawn Masters]

I just love the bow bar on my old 10-10 Auto. it pulls it nicely, despite being a very abused saw.