Got New MS-460 Friday, Cut with It Today

[458_lott]

After all of my crying and whining, I got the Stihl MS-460 yesterday at about 4:00 P.M. Brought it home and fired it up. Not bad, about what I expected from a 4.7 cu. in. saw. Figured I'd cut with it some today. Just got back. Decent saw. Probably will get better after about 15-20 tanks of gas through it. I suppose I will then look at the dual-port muffler cover and re-tune. Figure I will put bucking spikes on the bar cover also. I see there is a full-wrap handle going off on dookie-bay in about 15 or so hours. I think it is up to about $50. I guess that is about right. Anyway, after all the crying, I guess I will be satisfied with the saw. Time will tell.

 

[asb151]

After all the headaches I hope it works out well for you.

 

[timberwolf]

I would not bother waiting on the muffler, the sooner it is opened up the sooner the engine will run cool and to it's potential.

 

[458_lott]

asb151,

Thanks. I hope I never get jerked around like that again. I don't think it was purposely done as I know this dealer well. I just think that there is never really a straight line of communication coming from Stihl. They were telling me one thing and the dealer something else. This isn't a mickey mouse dealer as he has gone to Germany (factory) three times. He appears to have a good relationship with Stihl. It is just that everything they tell you isn't exactly as it really is. The full wrap apparently is available, no problem, if you are getting delivery out of a Western rep or distribution center. Here, they wanted me to buy the saw with flush-cut and then get the wrap-around as an add on. A different Stihl dealer tried to get me to take a saw with a b&c combo I didn't want and just order what I wanted later. His comment, "What's the big deal?" "You need more than one bar and chain anyway." Yeah, that may be right, but I don't want any safety chain anytime.

 

[458_lott]

timberwolf,

Great point. I really don't know that much about modding saws. I just run the crap out of 'em until they die and grab a different saw. I am going to learn though. My situation is much different than when I cut commercially. I need to be frugal and I have learned an infinite amount of information here about saw modding. The 460 is nice. No wow factor. It was about what I would expect from a saw that size. I guess for a medium size saw, it cuts pretty well. I got it with a 25" b&c and I'm satisfied with that length.

 

[rbtree]

The 460 as you got it is gutless compared to the pre EPA nonsense years. And it will run hotter and not last as long as the old ones. All this is thanks to the EPA, and some noise police... The main muffler port needs to be enlarged back to its original dimensions, which is as large as you can get withing the limitations of the deflector. Just keep it round, maybe 5/8 id. Then get the dual front cover and make it about 30-40% larger as well. Your objective is to have a total port area of 1 to 1.5 times the size of the exhaust port as measured at the cylinder. don't go over 1.25 or so at first, you can always do more. Before you do this, you'll have to get a tool for removing the carb limiter caps, as the saw will most certainly need to be richened up. ( A small screw can be used to turn into and grab the cap, so it can be turned to the orientation where it can be pulled out.) After I did a 440, it was turning over 15,000 rpm...not a good thing!!! Do this and your cut times will be at least 20% faster, if not more!!!

Also consider running full synthetic mix at 32 to 40-1.....Mobil's product is as good as it gets. One of the Stihl mixes is semi synthetic, I hear.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Yeah, get that muffler opened up ASAP. And don't bother with that handlebar if it goes more than $40. You can get brand new aftermarket handlebars from Maden's for $40 or $50.

Beyond that, enjoy the saw. I'm a fan of the 460, I think it's a fine saw.

Jeff

 

[xring]

Anyone with a 458 Lott should be able to get any saw he wants.

 

[Lakeside53]

Just cut wood...

Listen to all the muffler mod guys all you like, but unless you're really unhappy with the performance, there is no rush... I'd hazard a guess that 1 in a 1000 MS460's have the muffler modded... (unless I get CONCRETE evidence to the contrary, my number is GOLDEN ) and there are a lot of happy users. Maybe they don't know just how happy they COULD be, but perception is reality.

And... when you upgrade to a wrap, sell the old (like new) handle on Ebay. they cost around $55, and sell pretty well, so expect $30-40 for it. Hey, pays for that new dual port muffler front.

 

[458_lott]

To everyone,

I just walked into the house from a gig (been a professional musician for about 41 freakin' years now; well it helps pay for my toys); anyway, thanks for all of your help, comments and support. I don't know you guys, but you feel as though you are friends as I guess I was needing a little sympathy and emphathy and understanding of my frustration with Stihl. Guess I am over that now. Anyway, you guys have been great at listening and commenting. I am pretty much alone here with the saw modding thing. People around here just don't know about it or care. Dozer Dan lives in McClure, PA I think and that is not too far from me. Actually just passed through there going to the gig in Lewistown. Other than he, I don't think anyone around here knows doodlie squat (Outlaw Josey Wales) about modding saws or why you would ever think about it. Nobody, absolutely no body buys 460s, 660s, or 880s around here. My question is, why not? Heck they are available, why not have one or ten. Yeah, I carry a .458 Lott, a .416 Rigby, .500 Jefferey, a .404 Jeff and looking to add a .505 Gibbs. Got my saws in order, guess the .505 Gibbs is next. Done building rifles though. Cost is too high. Probably get a CZ-550 in .505 Gibbs. All you rifle guys know what that is. A Czech Mauser ($1,850). Yeegads, that's like 2 more saws and then some. In all seriousness, the rifles are for Africa. Can't really use the saws there.

I am happy with the 460. I don't want to sound ungrateful, but I was expecting a major "wow factor". Got a moderate "wow factor". As I said earlier, it was about what I expected from a 4.7 cu. in. saw. Seem to cut fairly good and fairly fast. I think I get a major wow from 100+cc saws. Kinda like my rifles big also. I am going to have to stop and think about what that says about me.

 

[skwerl]

Roger is right, there is a lot of potential still locked up in that saw. BY eliminating the EPA strangleholds on it, you can have that 'wow' factor. Until then my advice is to keep a close eye on the saw temps when running it hard and don't let it overheat. The EPA doesn't care if your saw runs too hot.

 

[Leebo]

Listen to all the muffler mod guys all you like, but unless you're really unhappy with the performance, there is no rush... I'd hazard a guess that 1 in a 1000 MS460's have the muffler modded... (unless I get CONCRETE evidence to the contrary, my number is GOLDEN ) and there are a lot of happy users. Maybe they don't know just how happy they COULD be, but perception is reality.

And... when you upgrade to a wrap, sell the old (like new) handle on Ebay. they cost around $55, and sell pretty well, so expect $30-40 for it. Hey, pays for that new dual port muffler front.

If one were looking for a good used saw in that class...046/460 or 066/660, would you choose the earlier model if they were in equal condition or does it really matter that much?

 

[jokers]

It will probably take more than 15-20 tanks before the 460 is fully broken in and it`s my opinion that the 460 will never really "wow" anyone. It`s a good saw with good power, but certainly not exceptional, atleast when stock. As several others have said, open the exhaust and retune the carb and you will see improvement.

Russ

 

[458_lott]

Again, I have to thank you guys. What you say makes perfect sense. I will watch the saw for heat. I won't cut really hard with it until I believe it to be broken in. I will take the advice of 20 tanks being bare minimum for break-in. As I said, I didn't really know what to expect as I had never owned a Stihl before. Most of my saws have been over the 5.0 cu. in. displacement and this cuts about how my XL-925s cut (5 cu. in. or so) but I don't believe it has equal torque (of course it is smaller). Never owning a Stihl, I have to rely on you guys for help and you have done just that. I think I like Stihl's bar and chain combo that came on it. Still early to tell, but the chain seems durable. I went over to the dealer again yesterday and asked that he get me bucking spikes for the bar cover and will look at getting the dual-port muffler cover. I will be sure to re-tune when I install that and if some additional mods are also required, I will lean on you guys.

I think I found it odd that the commercial cutters in my area are going with the MS-390 (well not again until Jan. 31 as none are available apparently), but then I remember that when I was cutting to supplement my income, I went with the saws that I could get the best deals on and they happened to be XL-925s, XL-12s and C-72s. I forgot to ask my dealer about getting just the powerhead. I told him that I was going to get another Stihl because Bailey's newest catalogue came Friday and I see bows are available for some Stihl saws and I only have two bow saws currently. Try to do all of my bucking-up with a bow saw (never a need for a wedge and I can buck-up standing instead of bending over). Probably go with something in the MS-290 family (290, 310, or 390) as the weight helps pull the bow through the log. Bailey's are asking $119 for their bows which is a fair price (includes bumper spikes and top and bottom chain guard). Heck, they were almost that price eons ago when I used to buy them from Homelite and Poulan.

 

[PWB]

I'm curious Lott, pro musician? What do you play? I'm a serious amateur. Know a few guys that make their living with an instrument though. One's been playing sax on the boats for 11 years now.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Probably go with something in the MS-290 family (290, 310, or 390) as the weight helps pull the bow through the log.

Just my opinion, but I'd prefer to rely on the saw's power to pull it through the log instead of the saw's excessive weight. Why not use your 460? It's got weight and power to do that.

Jeff

 

[davefr]

I've only experience a major "WOW Factor" from 3 saws.

Stihl 066: pre EPA with opened up dual port muffler.

Stihl MS180: Don't laugh!! I wasn't expecting much from such a small saw but it almost keeps up with an 026. I can do a lot more with this little guy the I originally thought.

Dolmar PS5100C: Great power to weight ratio

 

[CaseyForrest]

Id have to agree on the 180. I got it and put a 14" bar on it so as not to bog the saw to much. With 3/8 chain its hard to stop it. I wasnt expecting much out of a 31cc saw either, it replaced my 136 husky....

 

[Lakeside53]

If one were looking for a good used saw in that class...046/460 or 066/660, would you choose the earlier model if they were in equal condition or does it really matter that much?

I don't think it really matters. Later (after 1995) for the 440 has bigger rod bearings they need them) and there have been a series of minor improvements over the years. Later 46/460 and 66/660 have the light weight flywheel etc etc.. but, all the saws of all versions cut just fine.

 

[458_lott]

PWB,

I'm a trained classical guitarist, but have supplemented my income playing rock and roll and blues for about 41 years. I have played all over the East Coast and the Caribbean. For about seven years I played bass with Riviera Paradise, a Texas Blues style band. I still fill in with that band, in fact next Friday in New Cumberland, PA. We were averaging 20 to 22 gigs a month, mostly in Baltimore and Washington, DC. As I was the only moron with a day job (had to be in the office by 8:30 A.M.), I gave that band up as a full-time bass player last December. You can find our material on Amazon.com. The latest CD is Guitar Trouble. I currently play lead guitar again in a classic/contemporary rock band called Darkhorse. I still moonlight on bass and still fill in with Randy in Riviera Paradise, now known as the R.C. Yetter Band. The former drummer was Breaking Benjamin's drummer (Jeremy Hummel-usually see him in Modern Drummer Magazine). Jeremy left right after he and Ben Burnley formed Breaking Benjamin and I left last December. I have played lead guitar and bass off and on in bands since six months after I saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, Feb. 9, 1964. Saw them perform and said to myself. "I can do that". Six months later I was playing in a band and I have done it ever since. I used to live in Santurce, Puerto Rico and formed a band called Sage while I was living there. Taught school in the daytime, played in the clubs at night and surfed all weekend. What a life. I no longer teach guitar and I only perform about two times per month. It keeps me in chump change and keeps my licks fresh. Honestly, I would rather cut wood (cause I can be outside). After 41 years, it gets kind of old, but I don't know how to clean it out of my veins. Lord knows, I tried repeatedly. Playing a guitar is a curse I swear. Actually, electric guitar is a blight. I would much rather play classical guitar, but there is no audience unless you were the late Andre Segovia. I was fortunate enough to study under one of his students for many years. I still play classical guitar in church sometimes (do the prelude instead of an organ prelude) or I arrange some Beatles songs for classical guitar to play at weddings etc. Anyway, I would rather run my saws. I was just doing that, but the property I am cutting on is getting extremely muddy with this warm spell and I am sure the attorney guy who owns the property is not going to be too proud when he sees the ruts I have left so I am going to quit for the day. Hopefully, it will get cold again. Actually, I didn't get in until 4:00 this morning and I haven't been to bed yet so it is probably a good idea that I don't cut until I am fatigued. Good time for an accident.