GRCS: some criticism by a non-owner

[John Paul Sanborn]

provided you use it more than once in a blue moon

Exactly, and I use mine a couple times a week, on average. It takes less then 5 minutes to set up, so if I might need it for one big move, it gets strapped on. Just being able to easily tension the line makes it worth putting on the tree.

 

[Menchhofer]

Hi Steve; long time, no read!

Next time I go work in Jasper I'll have to look you up along the way. There was a Waffle House i stopped at for breakfast when I left the interstate, not sure where that was...

JPS


Just let me know. We can try and meet up again... I think the last time we tried it was snowing if I am not mistaken!

 

[newb]

" I don't know why I bother to preach the product to non believers other than Greg being a great guy that built a lifting/lowering device that opened up a new world of possibilities. " This says it all! John we strap ours on most trees also. It is better to have it ready and not need it than to need it and not have it ready. Pete

 

[TreeBot]

We had the tree tagged with two separate lines on this one as well. We had it anchored with my 2 ton dump and used the GRCS to pull it over. The GRCS was indispensable on that felling I can tell you. Sure there is always another way to do something but the GRCS made a very difficult, risky, technical felling relatively easy on that job. Very controlled, smooth take down when cranking it over with the GRCS. Hey, it might not be for everyone but from the limited experience I've had with it, I want one.

Ahem but some one forgot the video camera. Probably best since that was kinda scary and really a bigger tree than we probably should have pulled. The aerospace engineer double checking our estimates when we were deciding if we could do it was an interesting twist. I am sure glad I was not standing at the base of that tree with a saw in my hand when that 30,000 pounds decided split into two pieces as it started to fall.

I have found that with the GRCS, 3/4 inch rope does not grab the capstan very well so you can not get as much lift. The machine can't lift anything near the weight that 3/4 inch rope is needed for anyway though, so there is no need to use it to lift. If you have to lower big wood with 3/4 inch just use the aluminum barrel.

As far as the GRCS being worth the silver, being seen in the neighborhood easily lifting 500-1000lb limbs off of structures is very good advertisement, it is worth the money for that reason alone. I don't really think it usually saves much time, you spend as much time setting up and rigging blocks and stuff as you save usually. A good old school natural crotch rigger could usually be halfway done by the time I am set up. But I would catch all the way up and finish the job with much less effort and in a more predictable and more confidence inspiring manner. Some jobs can go much quicker though, especially big removals in tight places with good strong rigging points. I find myself setting it up on a lot of jobs that I don't even think I need it on just in case I change my mind, it is always nice to have that easy to apply 2k lb+ pull at your disposal.

 

[tree md]

Ahem but some one forgot the video camera. Probably best since that was kinda scary and really a bigger tree than we probably should have pulled. The aerospace engineer double checking our estimates when we were deciding if we could do it was an interesting twist. I am sure glad I was not standing at the base of that tree with a saw in my hand when that 30,000 pounds decided split into two pieces as it started to fall.

I have found that with the GRCS, 3/4 inch rope does not grab the capstan very well so you can not get as much lift. The machine can't lift anything near the weight that 3/4 inch rope is needed for anyway though, so there is no need to use it to lift. If you have to lower big wood with 3/4 inch just use the aluminum barrel.

As far as the GRCS being worth the silver, being seen in the neighborhood easily lifting 500-1000lb limbs off of structures is very good advertisement, it is worth the money for that reason alone. I don't really think it usually saves much time, you spend as much time setting up and rigging blocks and stuff as you save usually. A good old school natural crotch rigger could usually be halfway done by the time I am set up. But I would catch all the way up and finish the job with much less effort and in a more predictable and more confidence inspiring manner. Some jobs can go much quicker though, especially big removals in tight places with good strong rigging points. I find myself setting it up on a lot of jobs that I don't even think I need it on just in case I change my mind, it is always nice to have that easy to apply 2k lb+ pull at your disposal.

I was glad you weren't standing at the base as well. Hence, the GRCS was indispensable that day. Always fun when you can make an engineer break out his note pad and start figuring. Best of all was when the cop we was working for told us not to leave, that he had a cooler of beer iced down for us as we were coordinating our GPS's and planning our next rendezvous and we begged off to go get our next job done. Always the professional. We were tree Gods that day. Thank God it worked out. I don't think they would believe us here even if I got it on camera...

 

[Ax-man]

I have found this thread to be interesting. Like all topics it seems we have the usual outcome. No matter what is said or who says it we have the usual 50/50 split on the subject. The owners and users of a GRCS representing one side with the non owners representing the other side saying they can get along fine without a GRCS.

Like most here I learned old school using natural crotch rigging with the lowering rope snubbed off around the base of the tree. When new tools and new techniques became more available through information sharing I adopted them into our operation. With each new tool and technique we became faster and more productive and the work became easier and having more control of the process of removing a tree especially a big tree in a tight area.

Having a GRCS provides a means to an end goal I always invisioned when I started in this business. The ability to lift up and lower big pieces of a tree in one easy simple step with one man. It just doesn't get any better than that.

Larry

 

[pdqdl]

New questions on the same GRCS thread

I don't know about that Axeman, I got the answers I wanted to hear, especially from Treebot.

1. No, 3/4 rope isn't the best choice, but it can be used.
2. Nobody piped up and said they ever pulled their GRCS apart, so the test to destruction video was clearly an "over the top" test.
3. While self tailing winches can be found, not very many folks seem to have built their own version.

4. I didn't start this thread to get the opinions of nay-sayers that don't use the GRCS, I wanted to hear about the benefits. That has worked out nicely!

Thanks everybody for your comments.

**********************************************************

Now on a slightly different topic, a couple more questions:

1. Once you have done the lifting part of the GRCS use, how do you escape the self-tailing part? Is it as simple as unwrapping the rope from the outer sheave, or is it more complicated?

2. Does that thing have a reverse? If your are winding with a 44:1 mechanical advantage, does it have a tendency to come screaming off the capstan when you disengage the self-tailing part on a heavy load?

3. How do you change gears on that, and does it have a 1:1 direct drive?

 

[tree MDS]

Get the instruction video, I got one from my arborist supply house a few weeks back, it clears up alot of questions I had about mine.

The next thing I want to do someday is figure out how to winch with that drill from another tree without any problems with line crossing on the drum or anything. I guess it just takes alot of pulleys to get everything lined up straight. That could be cool though, but at some point its probably just as quick to rope it natural crotch.

 

[Ax-man]

I don't know why anyone would want to build their own frame for a winch and then have to round up and incorporate a strap for it. To me it has always been easier and less time consuming to just go out and buy the tool and the accesories. All the fabrication has been done and made much better than I could ever do in the shop.

Answers

#1 - yes it is simple to escape the self tailer. Just take out the first few wraps and get them into the pigtail to feed the rope into the capstain. Takes a little practice but like all tools there is a definate learning curve to overcome.

#2 - No- The rope doesn't come off the self tailer. It holds steadfast until you can't turn the winch anymore. A drill will get you more lifting power than you can do by hand.

#3 - No 1 to 1- Turning the crank in a clockwise rotation is the fastest gear and is geared 4 to 1. Good for speed to pretension but is lacking for good lifting. Counter clockwise rotation is 13 to 1 ( I think ) This is the slowest gearing but gives one man very good lifting control. Changing gears is as simple as winding the crank clockwise or forward then cranking in the opposite direction backwards or counterclockwise. It is simple and not complicated at all. No levers to mess with. All the gearing is contained in the capstain.

Hope this helps you out. You really need to see the vid that shows using the GRCS doing actual lifting and lowering of work pieces.

Larry

 

[pdqdl]

Rotation either way lifts, eh? That's pretty cool.

Question 2 was about whether a man can hang onto the rope after he has freed it from the self-tailing part. I can see how that might pull harder than a man can hold.

 

[pdqdl]

With respect for the winches and straps that come with the GRCS: That stuff is common and cheap. Standard issue at truck stops all over the country. I have those accumulating at my shop, 'cause I pick them up off the side of the road.

The straps are usually torn up when you find them by the road.

Since some of us are kinda poor, yet talented with making our own stuff, I tend to look at ways to save money, maybe to make something better.

If I was building the GRCS, I think I might try to build a roller fair lead into it. Two winches/straps seems like a better idea, too.

Maybe a junior version, for lighter work.

 

[Ax-man]

Yes , one man can hold the rope. It is all a matter of how many wraps are taken on the capstain. If your doing a heavy lift the guy has to be kind of quick to get the rope off the self tailer and into the pigtail.

There are two forces at work when lifting with the GRCS. Your lifting up the weight of the limb before it is cut free and your gin or lowering point is also being pulled downward. It is a compression effect until the limb that is being lifted is cut free and lowering point takes the load and goes back to it's original position.

You haven't lived until you can be able to tip tie a limb and stand it up vertically. Then be able to lower it and winch it over to chipper with a winch all in one motion then be able to feed that same limb into the chipper without having to cut it up. I know this is off topic but it sure is fun.

Larry

 

[pdqdl]

.... off the self tailer and into the pigtail.
...

Eh? What pigtail?

Don't you just hang onto the free end of the rope?

 

[Ax-man]

As your facing the winch the pigtail is on the left side. It can be folded up when not in use. It 's function is to lead the rope into the capstain to prevent the coils from getting bound up and twisted on themselves. Without the pigtail the rope would get into a tangled mess on capstain by running onto itself and wouldn't play out in a nice smooth easy motion.

There are three fairleads on a GRCS. The top two angled ones on top to lead the rope into the winch. The pigtail which is a curly Q affair to feed the rope into the winch for lowering. There is another minor fairlead on the right if you need to use that side of the winch. That one isn't used much.

Larry

 

[pdqdl]

Yeah, I can see how that might be needed.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Two winches/straps seems like a better idea, too.

I assume you mean two truck straps & pawled cinch gear.

The design of the bracket pushes it into the tree, onto the rubber pads, when loaded properly. This is where a proper run through the top fairlead is critical on heavy loads.

As for the self-tailer, it is a spring-loaded toothed jaw on the outside of the drum. The last wrap comes over a thimble, which feeds the rope into the jaws. as you crank the rope spills out of the jaw assembly.

to add my two cents on taking wraps off, it is just like with the Porty, as you take them off, you maintain friction on the drum untill you feel a little slippage.

On an average tree I can set the winch up, run the rope and take it down solo. I've worked with some ground guys (ropemen) who can run the winch rope with one hand and a drift/tagline out of the other.

 

[ChiHD]

When the GCRS got destroyed, did it have the top visor plate installed to prevent upward movement? I don't think so. This caused the incident to occur. And for the people out there that The GCRS isn't worth the money or they could get by without it, well if you do large trimmings or removals this is the machine. I do stuff that some could only dream about. Taking pieces over 35 feet long and weighing 2 tonne or more without shock loading anything. The big thing I love about the GCRS is the line tensioning and slack removal( lifting to the tie in point). Soon Helmet Video to be here this summer.

I'm ready to purchase the GCRS and was wondering where you bought yours? So far it looks like WesSpur is the best price but Im not sure if Vermeer in Brampton would be cheaper without the shipping or duty.

Do you know if WesSpur is in Canada?

thanks

 

[senechal]

WesSpur is in Washington but ships anywhere in Canada as does Sherrill. It's a bulky item to ship so if you can get it in Brampton it might be worth your while despite the price differences and lousy dollar.

 

[TreeBot]

I was warned by Charlie Pottorf when I bought by GRCS through him about the possibility of the rope uncoiling off of the capstan while it is being taken out of the self tailing clamp and unwrapped. If you don't keep tension on the rope and if you bring the rope out to the front of the machine, placing the portion of the rope past the winch perpendicular, rather than parallel to the part of the rope wrapped on the capstan, then the coils could spin off the drum altogether.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Ithen the coils could spin off the drum altogether.

That hurts, I've had it happen with a Hobbs.