the rep said they have been taking fuel samples all around the east coast this year.and the fuel has been very bad in mix quality.the ethnol has been 20% in some gas stations.a lot of saws locking up.he said every 5 gals of fuel we sould do a fuel test kit.and be safe.also 40 to 1 or 50 to 1 will not matter high ethnol will kill the saw! k
had a chat with stihl rep
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Fish
Tree Freak
well, being a Stihl rep will not get you too far.....
Hedgerow
HACK
This makes me want to mix up a gallon of E-85 and run it through the little 023...
Just to see...
:amazed:
Just to see...
:amazed:
I am on the East coast and have not had one seize up yet. I think that is to pass the buck for the warranty.
The air fuel ratio for ethanol is much lower than for gasoline. I would venture to say that if you got into some 20% ethanol fuel that the chainsaw will run lean unless you adjust the needles? With the EPA carbs you cannot make them very rich from what they were originally.
Making the Switch to E10
Switching from an E0 to an E10 fuel should be made in conjunction with verification of proper operation of the chainsaw by giving special attention to air cooling systems and fuel flow.
Tip No. 1 — Adjusting fuel/air mixture for the fuel being used will ensure engine operation is within design parameters and that there is adequate fuel flow for cooling and lubrication. When using E10, saws manufactured after 1997 should be set to the “rich stop” on the carburetor adjustment screw. Carburetors without “rich stops” should be set with a tachometer to manufacturer specifications.
Tip No. 2 — Experts agree, increasing oil-to-gas mix ratios will not compensate for the presence of ethanol in gasoline. Instead, they caution that exceeding manufacturer’s recommended oil-mix ratio may lead to carbon deposits and damage in the combustion chamber. Excess oil may also foul the exhaust system reducing the cooling capability of the engine.
However, when using E10 it is advisable to mix oil with fuel at the richest ratio recommended by manufacturers. Tip No. 3 — When switching to E10 fuel, it is also important to verify that the saw’s external cooling mechanisms are performing properly. Cylinders and fins should be free from dirt, pitch, grease, or any other contaminant that could reduce heat transfer capability. Air passageways should be clear of any obstructions and kept clear during saw operation. Allowing sawdust, vegetation, or a shirt tail to block air flow can quickly lead to engine failure.
Tip No. 4 — Normal precautions should be taken to prevent contamination of E10 fuels. Fuel should not be stored for long periods of time (over 60 days), and it is better to keep tanks completely full or completely empty to minimize danger of moisture accumulation. Adding a fuel stabilizer will help keep the fuel “good.” When using E10, it is even more necessary that fuel containers be shaken well prior to mixing with oil and filling power equipment. It is also important to shake the saw prior to running after extended idle periods.
Older equipment may experience deterioration of fuel lines and carburetor diaphragms, requiring replacement. Manufacturers and fuel industry experts agree that 10 percent ethanol in gasoline will not, by itself, damage chain saws that have been adjusted, cleaned, and are operated properly. However, switching from E0 to E10 may escalate an existing problem to the point that the saw engine fails. Saw owners who ensure proper oil/fuel mix, correct carburetor adjustment, and maintain adequate cooling air flow should be able to transition to E10 gasoline with little problem.
Switching from an E0 to an E10 fuel should be made in conjunction with verification of proper operation of the chainsaw by giving special attention to air cooling systems and fuel flow.
Tip No. 1 — Adjusting fuel/air mixture for the fuel being used will ensure engine operation is within design parameters and that there is adequate fuel flow for cooling and lubrication. When using E10, saws manufactured after 1997 should be set to the “rich stop” on the carburetor adjustment screw. Carburetors without “rich stops” should be set with a tachometer to manufacturer specifications.
Tip No. 2 — Experts agree, increasing oil-to-gas mix ratios will not compensate for the presence of ethanol in gasoline. Instead, they caution that exceeding manufacturer’s recommended oil-mix ratio may lead to carbon deposits and damage in the combustion chamber. Excess oil may also foul the exhaust system reducing the cooling capability of the engine.
However, when using E10 it is advisable to mix oil with fuel at the richest ratio recommended by manufacturers. Tip No. 3 — When switching to E10 fuel, it is also important to verify that the saw’s external cooling mechanisms are performing properly. Cylinders and fins should be free from dirt, pitch, grease, or any other contaminant that could reduce heat transfer capability. Air passageways should be clear of any obstructions and kept clear during saw operation. Allowing sawdust, vegetation, or a shirt tail to block air flow can quickly lead to engine failure.
Tip No. 4 — Normal precautions should be taken to prevent contamination of E10 fuels. Fuel should not be stored for long periods of time (over 60 days), and it is better to keep tanks completely full or completely empty to minimize danger of moisture accumulation. Adding a fuel stabilizer will help keep the fuel “good.” When using E10, it is even more necessary that fuel containers be shaken well prior to mixing with oil and filling power equipment. It is also important to shake the saw prior to running after extended idle periods.
Older equipment may experience deterioration of fuel lines and carburetor diaphragms, requiring replacement. Manufacturers and fuel industry experts agree that 10 percent ethanol in gasoline will not, by itself, damage chain saws that have been adjusted, cleaned, and are operated properly. However, switching from E0 to E10 may escalate an existing problem to the point that the saw engine fails. Saw owners who ensure proper oil/fuel mix, correct carburetor adjustment, and maintain adequate cooling air flow should be able to transition to E10 gasoline with little problem.
JustinM
Addicted to ArboristSite
sucks. thanks for the info though.
Ive been running 94 octane non-ethanol for a while now. Its available in canada at Chevron (its their "Chevron 94 Octane Super Premium Plus" - usually dispensed at its own pump). Im not sure if there's a national station in the USA that does the same, but up here you can count on Chevron if you have one in your neck of the woods.
Ive been running 94 octane non-ethanol for a while now. Its available in canada at Chevron (its their "Chevron 94 Octane Super Premium Plus" - usually dispensed at its own pump). Im not sure if there's a national station in the USA that does the same, but up here you can count on Chevron if you have one in your neck of the woods.
BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm having 1-3 saws a month come in the shop seized from fuel related issues.
Less than 10% Ethanol in a 044
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Hedgerow
HACK
Do you suppose that would be due to you setting it up for non eth, then the customer can't adjust on the fly when he gets 20%
eth?
BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
Both saws were running
BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nope plain and simple from bad old fuel.
Is new fuel typically a problem too?
Hedgerow
HACK
I don't know... I'd be tempted to take your word for it, but I've run a lot of 10% through the saws... Why have I not had a failure... ???? Is the eth separating with age?
BloodOnTheIce
Addicted to ArboristSite
It seems like it's safe up to 60 days, and between 2-6 months it's lethal since it will still fire in
the saw and kind of run and allow damage to happen. After 6 months the fuel won't run at all in a
saw, so it's usually a thorough fuel system clean out and rebuild
You take some E10 87 octane fuel, add some cheap oil and let it sit around and collect moisture
and become phase separated months and it becomes lethal to a two stroke
We rarely see pro users or guys who use their equipment year round having serious issues.
It's the people who use the saw less than 5 times a year and have old 60 day+ fuel sitting around have
the serious damage occur.
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Moisture can collect much sooner than in 60 days. I have a Shindaiwa line trimmer and the manual recommends not to use fuel older than 30 days (after dispensed FROM THE PUMP). And if you have to use old/stale fuel you have to use a fuel stabilizer, but I'm not sure if you can apply that after the fuel is old or before. "Mix only enough fuel for your immediate needs! If fuel must be stored longer than 30 days and oil with fuel stabilizer is not used, it should first be treated with a fuel stabilizer such as STA-BIL™."
I've seen information that moisture can collect in fuel as soon as in 15 days depending in where you live (ie. near the sea or humid areas).
Also: "Never use any type of gasoline containing more than 10% alcohol by volume!"
I think it's crucial that people read their user manuals so they can tell by facts what their machines are capable of handling.
Both saws were running
What are those pictures?
Hedgerow
HACK
I'm still gonna get some e 85 and run it through the 023...
Cause it's a Stihl...
:msp_sneaky:
As stated by Bloodontheice, its old fuel plain and simple, use ethanol blends in small quantities and use it fast, problem solved.
WHAT??? Problem solved???
I’m calling BS here dammit!
So tell me…
How can the age of the fuel increase the Ethanol content from 10% to 20%, or 30%, or even the 40% that I’ve found? Are you trying to tell me that Ethanol procreates as it ages?
How “old” is “old”? How do you know how “old” the fuel is when you buy it? What’s to say the fuel you buy hasn’t been lying in the tank at the gas station for 3 months already… or 6 months… or a year?
“Problem solved” my azz! The problem is Ethanol, and the only way to “solve” the problem is to stop putting it into the fuel. C’mon, quit drinkin’ the kool-aid already… Ethanol is horrible motor fuel. It ain’t cleaner, it creates more heat, contains less energy, draws water from the atmosphere, has zero lubricating properties and displaces oils, rots rubber and plastics, corrodes metals, and it’s production has driven up the price of near everything produced domestically and done more to put us in this dismal current economic position than any other single thing.
How do figure we should go about getting that to happen?
Everybody know what the problem is already.
How 'bout some solutions to the problem instead?
