Help prevent a noob from screwing up some gorgeous walnut...

[ResDocJon]

Gentlemen,

Had a great sunday and milled a bunch of walnut with my dad. The moisture content was over 25% and now it must sit, awaiting a time when the wood has less water and Jon has more money so as to build a bar and stock it with nice scotch and have the whole set up overseen by a large LCD flat screen.

(happily, I figure the timing for the both the wood moisture and the money will collide nicely at about year and a half)

So now my wood sits, awaiting it's phoenix-like return to glory and arguments about college football.

Dad said to seal the ends with a nice oil based paint (preferably white) and check it about monthly to reseal any cracks that might form. I bought some oil based white primer for this. Please stop me if I'm about to do something stupid.

The wood sits in my garage, and is making the garage smell delicious. It is stacked, thickest and longest on the bottom, each board separated by peices of lath. Please stop me if I've done something stupid.

Any other tips for storing and curing this very pretty wood? In a year and a half's time I would like my only worries to be Jay Cutler's offensive line protection (Go Bears) and my beloved Iowa State Cyclones' (quit laughing, they're 3-0) conference realignment concerns...

 

[VA-Sawyer]

I don't have a problem with the oil based paint on the ends. I don't think it will seal quite as well as Anchor-Seal, but is much better than nothing.

Tell us more about your stack. How thick is the lath? Are the bottom boards off the floor ?

Drying lumber is walking a fine line between ' not drying it fast enough and having mold and fungus problems' and 'drying it too fast and having cracks, checking and warping'.

The US Dept of Forestry has some excellent info on drying wood at their fpl ( forest products labrotory ) web site. If I can find the link, I will add it here.

Do you have weight on the top of the stack to keep the upper boards flat ?

Rick

 

[VA-Sawyer]

Here is one link

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr118.pdf

There is also a kiln operators handbook and another big one about properties of wood. In that one, you will be interested in Chapter 13 Drying Wood.

A bit of advice.... a lot of people will post their opinions and things they have done to dry wood and claim that they know what they are talking about. There are so many variables in the drying process that using the same methods on 2 different boards from the same tree could result in one drying straight and the other looking like a pretzl or covered in mold. I ran a kiln for three years and was just starting to get a real handle how some of the variables interacted. The FPL does testing on a very scientific basis and does large enough samples to have some real meaning.
Rick

 

[ResDocJon]

Thanks for the link - that's awesome!

The stack...

Longest boards are 12ft long and maybe 18 to 20 inches wide. Thickest are 1 3/4 inch. Thinest are 1 inch. The bottom board is sitting on lath, not on the floor. There is a piece of lath about every 3-4 feet (not enough maybe?). Like I said, the thickest longest boards are at the bottom and the thinner stuff is on top. Moving up, there are 9 foot long, 15 inch wide boards on top of those (also 1 3/4 thick). There are two 4x4 about 8 feet long that are sitting separately.

The lath is maybe 1 1/2 inches wide, and 3/8 inch thick (that's a guess from memory - I'm at work right now :hmm3grin2orange

At the top, though not on the ends of the longer boards, are the chunks of wood labled "artesian possibilities" by some of the ladies that came up to see what we were up to. They were very much opposed to sending them to the burn pile (probably rightfully so) and insisted that they get turned into cutting boards and things. So that's weighting the middle of the stack, though not on the ends, again, of the longest boards.

Do you think the 4x4s need to be incorporated into the stack or left sit by themselves? Is that description of the stack good enough? Have I done anything woefully wrong?

 

[VA-Sawyer]

On 4/4 boards I suggest a sticker every 16" or less. With valuable wood like Walnut or Cherry, I put them every 12" in my stacks to keep warp and twist to a minimum.

I think your stickers may be too thin and too wide. For Air drying they should be between 3/4 and 1" thick with a max width of 5/4" to prevent shadows ( sticker stain ). If your stack is 2 to 3 feet front to back, the 3/4 square stickers work pretty well. For stacks 4 to 5 ' wide, I use 1" square or 1" by 5/4" stickers for real tall stacks. The 5/4 width spreads the load over more area to avoid crushing the wood fibers, but it does increase the chance of shadow. Also, I only use them in the lower layers, which are the ones with the most weight on them. I suggest that the lowest layer be at least 4" off a concrete floor and at least 8" above soil.

One last thing for now. I hope the back of the stack isn't against the wall. I like 50% of stack width on each side ( up to 24" clearance max ) for air flow.

If you have more questions, you can PM me with your phone number and I will be happy to call you.
Rick

 

[mrbentontoyou]

i agree with VA's advice;
one thing i also like to do is keep a partial round first or last slab on top of the pile and ratchet strap the whole stickered stack down tight.
good luck...

 

[Talltom]

Get the stack up off the floor. There's moisture in the concrete. A 2x4 or 2x6 on edge would work. Cut to a length a little wider than the stack, joint an edge and plane them to uniform width. These and stickers should be no more than 24" part. Closer would be better. Thin stickers will delay drying, but you can improve this by using a fan on low to move air through and along the length of the stack. You shouldn't have to worry about drying too fast at this time of year.

If you plan on milling more lumber in the future, make good stickers and replace the lath between the boards. You can never have too many stickers! I prefer not to make my stickers square, so I can easily tell the "good" side. If they're square you need to accurately mill all four sides, rather than just 2. I make 3/4 x 1" stickers out of tulip poplar that I cut on my mill. This is a good use for cut-offs and short pieces, but they need to be dry, so it takes a while to generate stickers to dry subsequent batches of lumber. In the meantime, you can rip up kiln dried 1X or exterior grade plywood. Don't mix them in them same level though. 3/4 plywood is thinner than 3/4 dimension lumber.

Binding straps are a good way to "weight" the stack so the boards dry straight and flat. The straps should be near a column of stickers, not halfway between them. I use three for each stack. If you don't have a round slab for the top layer, put a sticker at 45 degrees across the top board and under the strap to equalize the pressure across the board. The strap should be pressing down on the edges of the top board as well. Strap the part of the stack with the shorter boards and use your weights on the parts that stick out. For a valuable wood like walnut, I would also use extra stickers between the strap and the edge of the bottom board to prevent the strap from crushing of the edge of the wood. All this assumes the boards are of uniform thickness to start with. If they're not, skip plane them before stacking to dry. If they're not uniform and you can't plane them, don't strap them, just weight the top of the stack.

Since you plan on using the lumber for interior projects, at some point you will need to move the lumber indoors and stack and sticker them to finish drying. They will only dry to about 20% MC in your garage and you need the MC to be about half that. You will get very little drying in your garage over the winter, and the thicker boards will take longer to dry than the thin ones. I dry mine at least a year outside and at least a year inside. You can move it inside sooner to hasten drying. Moving wet lumber indoors is not a problem for the lumber, but may be for the space they're stored in.

Get a moisture meter if you don't already have one, to keep track of progress. I prefer the pinless type since you can take continuous readings along the length and width of the board. Air drying is not an exact science - you will end up with some differential in MC among and within boards. When you start to make something from the wood, cut the parts larger than the final dimension and allow them to acclimate to the workshop for a week before final dimensioning.

 

[ResDocJon]

Hey thanks for the advise everybody.

Took your advice and restacked after sealing. My method of sealing also included kicking over the primer and spilling it in the garage, and swearing a bunch. :bang:

I moved the stack further away from the garage wall and spaced more lath in between the boards, as well as doubled up the lath to create more air between them per your advice. I wasn't exactly accurate with my measurements and the lath actually more closely resembles what you were suggesting. I don't have any stickers but will see about making some. I'd love to move the boards inside, but don't think my wife will be entirely pleased with this proposal. They'd go down in the basement, which is finished, but generally cooler and does require a constant running dehumidifer so that the dry wall doesn't rot...do you think the boards would do well there or should they stay in the garage?

Two other questions...

#1. When we were restacking, we noticed dryer looking areas where the lath had been, even after two days. The uncovered "middle part" of the boards actually looked wetter. Is the the shadowing you guys were talking about?

#2. We have a bunch of chunks of wood that came off of the first cuts and came from evening out the log before it was milled. I thought they'd make good practice for turning on a lathe and using a jigsaw to turn into cutting boards and stuff. Do you want to turn wood on a lathe green or dry?

Since it's effectively practice, it doesn't really matter but on the off chance I actually showed some natural ability and could turn these into Christmas Presents or something, is this Christmas too soon?

 

[ResDocJon]

Sorry, one other question -

I was reading a few links (thanks again VA) and it said that once dried, that didn't necessarily mean the wood would be at it's final shape. Is there any benefit to having the wood dry in the room it will ultimately be used in? In other words, if we're building a bar in the basement, should it dry in the basement?

Again, this maybe difficult to sell to someone...

 

[mikeb1079]

#1. When we were restacking, we noticed dryer looking areas where the lath had been, even after two days. The uncovered "middle part" of the boards actually looked wetter. Is the the shadowing you guys were talking about?

in my experience this is nothing to worry about because you'll need to plane down the lumber anyways when it's going to be used. this will eliminate that discoloration.

#2. We have a bunch of chunks of wood that came off of the first cuts and came from evening out the log before it was milled. I thought they'd make good practice for turning on a lathe and using a jigsaw to turn into cutting boards and stuff. Do you want to turn wood on a lathe green or dry?

others may chime in and i'm certainly no expert at turning but the fella i know turns his projects green to a rough shape and then coats with wax and lets the piece dry for several months inside. when the moisture content is down to the desired level he then finishes the piece.

Since it's effectively practice, it doesn't really matter but on the off chance I actually showed some natural ability and could turn these into Christmas Presents or something, is this Christmas too soon?

probably. you'll have to get a meter and keep track of the moisture content of the wood. from what i've seen walnut dries ok. after a month or two you may have your stack down to around 15-20 percent. you'll need to bring the lumber inside or into a kiln to dry it out to the desired 6-8 percent for woodworking projects. one way you could cheat is to let the wood sit until thanksgiving and then bring in a few pieces (for experimentation of course) and let them sit in front of or over a heat register to dry them out fully. this worked for me with some black cherry i milled. then they may be ready for working by christmas but i wouldn't count on it. drying wood is not something that lends itself to hastiness
the last thing you wanna do is invest all that time and care into making something for a friend or family member and then a month later it splits or cracks.
hope this helps....

 

[BlueRider]

Lots of questions, thats good, its's how you learn.

First things first, I would strongly recomend geting a copy of Bruce Hoadley's book "Understanding Wood". It will adswer a lot of your questions as well as a lot you havn't even thought of yet.

VA's advice about stacking and stickering wood is spot on. You picked a good one to learn with, walnut is very easy to dry with good results. actually you almost have to try to ruin it to get poor results with walnut. Most of the time I don't even bother with sealing the ends.

Most production turners I know prefer to turn green. Most turn the form with 1" thick walls and then let it dry before they finish turn to final shape and wall thickness. Each has their own method of drying and each swears theirs is best. Some put the bowls in paper bags and others put them in a box full of dry shavings. The tuner I know with the most experiance and actually suports himself with his turning puts them on a shelf.

To learn more about turning look for a local chapter of the American Assocation of Woodturners They are generaly a great bunch of people and very encouraging to beginners.

 

[ResDocJon]

Hey thanks again everybody. I hope that after some time passes Ill be able to post something worthy on Stonykill's "what are you building with your milled wood?" thread...:msp_thumbup:

 

[VA-Sawyer]

"Understanding Wood" is an excellent starter reference for woking with wood. Bruce has a knack for explaining things so they are easy to understand. I also have his book on Identifing wood.

On your question about the wood looking drier where the lath strips had been in contact, I'm guessing the lath was quite dry and was acting like a sponge. Of couse, as the wood gets drier the lath will then tend to act like a wet sponge and will help promote fungus growth in the area of contact. That fungus in the contact area can cause a color change in the wood that is know as 'sticker stain'. If it isn't bad and will clean up with a light pass through the planer we tend to call it 'sticker shadow'. In bad cases it can be 1/4" deep or more, and that can render a board almost worthless. I'm actually more concerned that the major surface of the board had a wet look to it. That makes me think you may not have enough airflow through the stack. Hopefully it is better now that you have doubled up the lath strips and increased the space between the boards. Fungus doesn't grow well on wood with less than 20% moisture content so you want to keep moisture of the surface wood cells down closer to that number. Shrinkage doesn't start until about the same 20% moisture point as that is when the free water has been removed and you are starting to actually dry the cell walls ( bound water ).

Now you understand the problem with drying wood. You need to get the moisture level down to the 20% mark as fast as possible to avoid fungus growth without having the outer parts get too dry and start shrinking while the center is still wet. Once the whole board is down below 20% you could restack it without stickers and not have to worry about fungus growth. That is exactly what they do with "kiln dried" construction lumber. They get it down to 18 or 19% moisture content and then bundle it for shipping. It will be fine unless it gets rained on and then the moisture level is right back up to a level that will support fungus growth.

Low temps will also retard the fungus growth, so I hope the stack is in an unheated space.

Rick

 

[ResDocJon]

That book had really good reviews on Amazon. It's payday today as well. Any other suggestions on beginning woodworking books?

 

[PhilB]

Taunton Press (taunton.com) has a lot of books I like. They're the publishers of Fine Homebuilding and Fine Woodworking. Go to there website and find what you want, but checkout Amazon's price (amazon.com). Sometimes they're cheaper.

 

[Talltom]

Check out Woodweb on the internet as well. They are geared more toward commercial operations, but there's a lot of information there.