This is something ive been wondering about when exactly did macs and homlites disappear from the market as a professional saw?? I ask this because I saw in the muscle saw thread about how in for example the book by douglas dent professional timber falling a procedural approach theres macs,homelite and also the stihl 090 and 090G. Whereas in the book high climbers and timber fallers theres one mac 125 pictured with logger mike davis and theres one homelite 2100G i think at the very back of the book. Most saws there appear to be the big brands known today such as husqvarna, stihl, and i think some dolmars; brand wise fairly representative of what the pros use today. Now the timber fallers and high climbers book mainly documents the cutting of big trees from the mid 80s up until the late 90s or so i think. While professional timber falling is in the 70s. Also in timber fallers and high climbers Mike Davis I think was the one whom Beranek saw felling the big trees on the reel and film and I think he states that the saws Mike Davis was using where the go kart Macs 125. This makes me think that the macs and homelites must of disappeared or taken a huge plunge for the worst in the 80s is this right??
Homelite and Mcculloh die off
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promac850
formerly promac610
The real USA made Macs disappeared in the late 70's-mid 80's... after that, the 605/610/650s were made and sold like hotcakes. Lots of of folks here hate that saw line... I love it. I can knock over small trees just by smashing them with the saw... I just grab the end of the bar and whip around to make it meet the tree...
I am not sure about Homelites... probably around the same time as the McCullochs.
Mark H (McCulloch expert) and Eccentric (Homelite expert) will be able to tell you almost exactly when each brand died. I'm fairly sure they'll pop in here and 'edumacate' us.
I am not sure about Homelites... probably around the same time as the McCullochs.
Mark H (McCulloch expert) and Eccentric (Homelite expert) will be able to tell you almost exactly when each brand died. I'm fairly sure they'll pop in here and 'edumacate' us.
Lighter and newer saws took over the market as the timber got smaller.
The last of the real big wood being cut on an everyday basis was back in the early 80's. By then Husqvarna had refined the 2100 into the 2101XP and Stihl had refined the
056 Magnum into the Magnum II. The 064 came out in North America in September of '85 and was an instant best seller. Husky had already scored big points in '83 with
the release of the 181SE.
Homelite's last 'true' musclesaw was the 750 and by late '83/early '84 the 750 was on the way out. Some people will say the 8800 was the last of Homelite's muscle
but it never had the popularity of the 750 and it was designed and built in part by Solo.
Even as early as the mid-70's the big McCullochs were becoming obsolete. My dad switched over from the Mac kartsaws and 125s to the Pioneer P-60 somewhere around late '77/early '78 when they first came out. His diameter average was steadily decreasing during those days. He went from running a 60" bar daily in the early 70's to a 36" bar in the late '70's.
Another factor was mismanagement at the large OPE companies in the '70's. When Robert McCulloch was retiring, he handed the company over to lower-level executives
and they proceeded to run the company into the ground.
The last of the real big wood being cut on an everyday basis was back in the early 80's. By then Husqvarna had refined the 2100 into the 2101XP and Stihl had refined the
056 Magnum into the Magnum II. The 064 came out in North America in September of '85 and was an instant best seller. Husky had already scored big points in '83 with
the release of the 181SE.
Homelite's last 'true' musclesaw was the 750 and by late '83/early '84 the 750 was on the way out. Some people will say the 8800 was the last of Homelite's muscle
but it never had the popularity of the 750 and it was designed and built in part by Solo.
Even as early as the mid-70's the big McCullochs were becoming obsolete. My dad switched over from the Mac kartsaws and 125s to the Pioneer P-60 somewhere around late '77/early '78 when they first came out. His diameter average was steadily decreasing during those days. He went from running a 60" bar daily in the early 70's to a 36" bar in the late '70's.
Another factor was mismanagement at the large OPE companies in the '70's. When Robert McCulloch was retiring, he handed the company over to lower-level executives
and they proceeded to run the company into the ground.
I'm trusting Mike Acres site for most of the dates as I don't have all of the documentation myself.
The last of the large professional direct drive saws were built in 1977 ending with the SP125C.
The last of the large gear drive saws were built in 1976 ending with the mysterious 895C.
McCulloch still produced professional quality 10 Series saws all the way up through 1990 with the Double Eagle 80 and through 1995 with the Super Pro Mac 850.
The Pro Mac 800 ended in 1985.
As with all things McCulloch the time lines and lineage are confused as the PM800 was the last in the series (850 and 805 coming earlier) but some how ended with the Super 850. In between (early '90's) were the PM4300 (700) and PM8200(800).
Clear as mud???
Mark
The last of the large professional direct drive saws were built in 1977 ending with the SP125C.
The last of the large gear drive saws were built in 1976 ending with the mysterious 895C.
McCulloch still produced professional quality 10 Series saws all the way up through 1990 with the Double Eagle 80 and through 1995 with the Super Pro Mac 850.
The Pro Mac 800 ended in 1985.
As with all things McCulloch the time lines and lineage are confused as the PM800 was the last in the series (850 and 805 coming earlier) but some how ended with the Super 850. In between (early '90's) were the PM4300 (700) and PM8200(800).
Clear as mud???
Mark
Guido Salvage
Supreme Saw Whoreder
Much of it had to do with the markets they were chasing in order to boost profits. As time went on there were more homeowner coming to own saws and they were less demanding regarding quality and durability than their historical clientele, loggers and farmers. Both companies elected to enter the lower cost field and as a result more of their products were oriented towards that market and R&D on the professional grade products deteriorated. As a result, other manufacturers were producing saws that were lighter, faster and ergonomically superior which resulted in a death spiral.
Eccentric
Mister Wizard
Yep. Same thing with Homelite. Homelite still produced a few SXL925, C72, SW80 (ancient gear drive), and 1050-S saws up until around 1986 (along with the 410 and 540/8800 saws Jacob mentioned). That's a Homelite 3100G in the High Climbers book IIRC. The SXL-AO was produced until about 1994 (along with millions of XL2/Super2 and 240 type consumer saws). There's a leftover NOS 240 and SXL-AO at a local hardware store here. They want WAY too much $$$ for each of 'em, and won't budge. I also remember seeing a dusty pair of McCulloch PM4300 and PM8200 saws on a local dealer's shelf around 1995 or so. Should have bought those two then. I was making far less money than I do now..................but my expenses were FAR FAR FAR less. Actually had a disposable income then....
I certainly wouldn't call myself an "expert" Kyle. Thanks though...
There's a dolmar 166 in the high climbers book. A lot of husky 2100/2101s and 288 family, stihl 056/076/090, a few 044s, and 064s if I remember right. Its been a few weeks since I went through most of it again.
procarbine2k1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ah, Im one of those people. From all of the information that I have been able to gather... the 540 and 8800 were designed by Solo, but manufactured by Homelite. I am hoping that you can shed some light on this JJ. Just curious as to what Solo's part was in the 540/8800... As far as numbers, there cant be many of the 540/8800 saws floating around! I can tell you that a 540 gets hotter than a microwave oven when in use haha. I would love to know how many were produced.
There were many models manufactured by the two major
companies. Mcculloch and Homelite dominated the woods
in the 60's and 70's. Mccullochs first big cube entry that produced
power was in 1967 with the 797, A big hit for guys who needed long
bars. The 797 evolved into the Super 797 in April of 1969 and died
later in 1969 when the CP125 was introduced at that same time.
The CP125 run was short, End of 69 to 71 when the SP125 came
and was Mccullochs bigest hit and was in production til 1977.
Homelite tried to follow but to me was always a step behind.
There first big cube saw that could compete with Mcculloch was the
Model 2000 in i believe was 1967 as well. Then evolved into the 2100
in 1969. The 2100 carried a couple models through it's production.
The 2100, 2100S and Super 2100 which died out in the later 70's
Mccullochs big geardrives were also a hit. Starting in the mid 60's through
the mid 70's. Homelites last geardrive was the 1130G ending in either 82
or 84. Homelite also had a short run of the Model 3100G in the early 70's
but not many were sold for one reason or another.
Homelite continued on with the Model 650 and 750 til the mid 80's or so.
Mcculloch had nonothing in the big class so they went after Partner and
had the PM1000 made to fill the void.
Stihl, Husky and Dolmar were on the rise in the later 70's into the 90's
Dolmar had the 166 introduced in 1982 and went til 1991 or 92.
Lee
companies. Mcculloch and Homelite dominated the woods
in the 60's and 70's. Mccullochs first big cube entry that produced
power was in 1967 with the 797, A big hit for guys who needed long
bars. The 797 evolved into the Super 797 in April of 1969 and died
later in 1969 when the CP125 was introduced at that same time.
The CP125 run was short, End of 69 to 71 when the SP125 came
and was Mccullochs bigest hit and was in production til 1977.
Homelite tried to follow but to me was always a step behind.
There first big cube saw that could compete with Mcculloch was the
Model 2000 in i believe was 1967 as well. Then evolved into the 2100
in 1969. The 2100 carried a couple models through it's production.
The 2100, 2100S and Super 2100 which died out in the later 70's
Mccullochs big geardrives were also a hit. Starting in the mid 60's through
the mid 70's. Homelites last geardrive was the 1130G ending in either 82
or 84. Homelite also had a short run of the Model 3100G in the early 70's
but not many were sold for one reason or another.
Homelite continued on with the Model 650 and 750 til the mid 80's or so.
Mcculloch had nonothing in the big class so they went after Partner and
had the PM1000 made to fill the void.
Stihl, Husky and Dolmar were on the rise in the later 70's into the 90's
Dolmar had the 166 introduced in 1982 and went til 1991 or 92.
Lee
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Guido Salvage
Supreme Saw Whoreder
I bought a 540 new in 1991 at Northern Hydraulics of all places. At the time it was a high priced saw, I came across the receipt when I moved and gave $530 for it with a 20" Saf T Tip bar. Never ran that bar, immediately put a 30" Total on it.
Kept it stored on this cart:
Probably only ran 3 tanks of fuel through it over the years and then this past summer when moving the cart it fell off resulting in this. A metal handled 8800 would have survived.
Eccentric
Mister Wizard
That's a heartbreaker every time I see it Gary.
Yeah that's a tough pill to swallow for sure. There is a DM54 tank on ebay for $70, but I don't know the differences (If any) between the DM54 and the 540.
Rounder
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not much of an expert, but I've heard that failure to switch to a vertical cylinder configuration hurt both mac and homelite. FS wanted the muff out front for fire saftey. After the companies went to the kidddies there was a failure to adapt to changing regs. Just a story I've heard, could be BS.
Guido Salvage
Supreme Saw Whoreder
JJ,
Thanks for the tank info. I already picked up an used one from Roanoker494 and need to install it. Not as nice as mine, but it will make the saw functional. As I am sure you know, the chop saws lack an oil reservoir.
Gary
The big timber saws that Lee spoke of were one thing but are only a small part of the picture I would think.
Maybe more so back then but like to day the big timber pro saws are only a small part of the total saw sales with farmers, ranchers and fire wood burning homeowners makeing up the bigger part of the sales.
I dont know all the details of the inner workings of the compaines back then but it just seemed that McCulloch couldnt keep up with the times at all for whatever reason. They sold renamed vintage saws longer then anyone it seemed.
Homelite tried to upgrade but didnt really hit a home run with anything either.
Seems, they just got run over by the other compaines.
Maybe more so back then but like to day the big timber pro saws are only a small part of the total saw sales with farmers, ranchers and fire wood burning homeowners makeing up the bigger part of the sales.
I dont know all the details of the inner workings of the compaines back then but it just seemed that McCulloch couldnt keep up with the times at all for whatever reason. They sold renamed vintage saws longer then anyone it seemed.
Homelite tried to upgrade but didnt really hit a home run with anything either.
Seems, they just got run over by the other compaines.
lesorubcheek
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's kinda the picture I have also Mark. Mid 60s and Homelite was leading the pack with the XL-12 and follow-on "light weight" saws ideal for farmers, ranchers and home-owners. Early to mid 70s and now Homelite had the EZ/Super EZ, 150, little XL and Super 2s and 350/360s. By the early 80s about the only new decent saw was the 330. Homelite never really followed these with anything to fill the niche that was comparable to the newer European saws coming in. 240s were not one of Homelites best, and the 290/340 weren't even Homelites' they're Solos. Its like the design department just quit coming up with marketable concepts. Again probably in a large part due to the competition. Just too difficult to come up with cost competetive designs. They could only keep selling Super XLs for so long until reality caught up, and then it was time to ditch the whole company.
Dan
Guido Salvage
Supreme Saw Whoreder
Aren't we really talking about the transition from magnesium saws to the lighter weight plastic saws with AV? Seems like the Europeans were able to make the transition and attract market share while the American companies had trouble doing so.
Of the three major American brands, I think Poulan was in the lead, but the Wild Thing/Woodshark/Predator detour did them in.
Of the three major American brands, I think Poulan was in the lead, but the Wild Thing/Woodshark/Predator detour did them in.
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Gary, I think it started a little sooner then before the plastic age began but probably ended up in it. There were not really much plastic being used in the mid to late 70's yet but thats the period that began the next evolution in saws designs. Like I said, at that time Mac struck out in any good new designs and Homelite was just so, so at it. Pioneer was barely hanging on but had some good stuff even though they were older designs. Husqvarna was moving along quite well with the veritical cyl saws as was Sthil and Poulan.
As for the Poulan plastic saws, those were later on after Poulan was only a puppet for Electolux and now Husqvarna who decided that the Poulan name would only be used for consumer saws. As to did them in? I guess it depends how you look at it. The Poulan company seems to be doing ok and is selling a ton of those plastic saws. Same thing for Partner who had some good designs untill they were bought and used to be the europen Poulan.
crane
Addicted to ArboristSite
Interesting comments here........
Just a thought, did the market share of either or any die because of the product or the service? I mean, were the consumer brands plugged in every store that would take them and the true "dealerships" still up and running, were forced to close down? Or was it the saw design that they offered was not in step with what the consumers were after, and too much market share was lost to recover?
What effect did the economic down turn in the 70's and 80's have on the North American saw MFG's. I can't imagine the imported European saws being that much cheaper.
Just a thought, did the market share of either or any die because of the product or the service? I mean, were the consumer brands plugged in every store that would take them and the true "dealerships" still up and running, were forced to close down? Or was it the saw design that they offered was not in step with what the consumers were after, and too much market share was lost to recover?
What effect did the economic down turn in the 70's and 80's have on the North American saw MFG's. I can't imagine the imported European saws being that much cheaper.
cpr
Addicted to ArboristSite
Agreed with you Mark. It won't get any applause here on an enthusiast site, but Poulan has been, and continues to be, a commercial success.
