SawTroll
Information Collector
Yes, but I don't know if the intake is the same....
....., but I believe a 266 cylinder will fit?
The same carb was used on the 162, early 61 and early 266.
Husqvarna 162 or what & possible P&C kits to fit, IPL and manual wanted
- Thread starter Frank Savage
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Yes, but I don't know if the intake is the same....
....., but I believe a 266 cylinder will fit?
The same carb was used on the 162, early 61 and early 266.formersawrep
ArboristSite Operative
Frank-
I am pretty sure I have a 162 p/c in usable condition. Let me know via pm if you are interested.
I am pretty sure I have a 162 p/c in usable condition. Let me know via pm if you are interested.
Frank Savage
ArboristSite Operative
formersawrep-Thank You, but I have the disability of living in the old (p/f)art of the world-Europe.
Saw troll-thanks again, albeit I listed that models-fitting a 266/268/272 (later preferably) top ends onto this crankcase.
First, just mechanical fitting-bolt spacing, cylinder "skirt" diameter. (I suppose-but not know for sure that piston pin diameter is covered just by different bearing, the hole in the piston rod being the same)
Second, preferably without the need to change the carburetor. Some redo or new intake manifold is acceptable.
Saw troll-thanks again, albeit I listed that models-fitting a 266/268/272 (later preferably) top ends onto this crankcase.
First, just mechanical fitting-bolt spacing, cylinder "skirt" diameter. (I suppose-but not know for sure that piston pin diameter is covered just by different bearing, the hole in the piston rod being the same)
Second, preferably without the need to change the carburetor. Some redo or new intake manifold is acceptable.
Steveo_supremo
ArboristSite Guru
The 162 and 630 both use a bolt-on intake so they should be fully interchangeable. As Sawtroll said, a 266 cylinder and piston will also work and it'll give You a bit more displacement with the 50mm bore.
Frank Savage
ArboristSite Operative
Checked availibility of P&C. No 266 jugs to get, Tillotson HS 260 carb of 268/272 also nowhere to get.
Availible jugs:
61 (which I want to avoid, no matter that I can choose open or closed port)
262
268
272
So:
Will the original Tillotson HS 163 with original flat intake filter configuration be able to supply enought air and fuel for 268/272 jugs?
How high is a 272 jug from crankcase to the tip of the sparkplug? Will it fit under original cover?
I´m leaning toward to get the 268 P&C, but I´m open to ideas from people who worked these saws (I had not).
Availible jugs:
61 (which I want to avoid, no matter that I can choose open or closed port)
262
268
272
So:
Will the original Tillotson HS 163 with original flat intake filter configuration be able to supply enought air and fuel for 268/272 jugs?
How high is a 272 jug from crankcase to the tip of the sparkplug? Will it fit under original cover?
I´m leaning toward to get the 268 P&C, but I´m open to ideas from people who worked these saws (I had not).
SawTroll
Information Collector
Most likely, the answer is no to both questions - but I am no expert.
Also make sure that you don't get an open-port 268 top end....
Frank Savage
ArboristSite Operative
I checked whatever I was able to get to, mainly this: http://www.tillotson.ie/docs/HSPartsList.pdf . Still waiting for response from Tilly.
The main difference between involved carbs (HS-163A for 162 or 266; HS-224 or HS-234A for 268; HS-260 for 268 or 272) is that:
HS-163A Venturi dia. 15,9 mm, hi-speed needle 43A-71
HS-224A Venturi dia. 17,5 mm, hi-speed needle 43A-71
HS-234A Venturi dia. 17,5 mm, hi-speed needle 43A-152
HS-260 Venturi dia. 17,5 mm, hi-speed needle 43A-152
Low speed needle 43A-70 in all above, metering and pumping equipment being the same. I had no luck trying to find jet diameters of abovementioned carburetors, which if differs, make considerable difference. Anyone knows for sure?
So, some math:
Husqvarna 162 (61,5 ccm) no load 12500 rpm, under load 9300 rpm
Husqvarna 268 (67 ccm) no load 12500 rpm, under load 9000 rpm
Husqvarna 272 (72 ccm) no load 13500 rpm, under load 9300 rpm
No load, carburetor native to the saw:
162 needs 768,7 litres of air per minute, producing 1,07 meter/second velocity in the venturi
268 needs 837,5 litres of air per minute, producing 0,96 meter/second velocity in the venturi
272 needs 972 litres of air per minute, producing 1,12 meter/second velocity in the venturi
Under load, native carburetor:
162 needs 572 litres of air per minute, producing 0,80 meter/second velocity in the venturi
268 needs 603 litres of air per minute, producing 0,69 meter/second velocity in the venturi
272 needs 669 litres of air per minute, producing 0,77 meter/second velocity in the venturi
With HS-163 carburetor, these jugs will produce
No load
268 1,26 m/s, which is 117% of the velocity in the venturi compared to 162 cylinder with no load
272 1,35 m/s, which is 126% of the velocity in the venturi compared to 162 cylinder with no load
Under load
268 0,87 m/s, which is 109% of the velocity in the venturi compared to 162 cylinder under load
272 0,93 m/s, which is 117% of the velocity in the venturi compared to 162 cylinder under load
Since HS-163 was mounted on first Husky´s 266 (66,7 ccm), it will sure go OK with a 268 jug. I know that for the 266, carbs were changed in favor of carbs with 17,5 mm venturi, but no matter now.
Higher speed in the venturi makes the saw more sensitive to actual tune, depending on temperature of the air, of the saw, humidity, etc. Lower speed-lower sensitivity, thus lower need for caring about the saw during the work, thus better productivity and less probability to seize it.
From what I know and understand about carburetors and aerodynamics, no big deal about 268 jug and HS-163, since the increase compared to Husky 162 is not too great and is proven in 266.
The numbers for 272 cylinder are quite well on the high side. I think that 26% increase in speed in venturi would make the saw damn iffy to tune, not talking about changes during heating the saw up in longer cuts. Probably even the jets would have problems with contributing, not taking into account possible problems of turbulences around throttle and choke flap with such speedier flow compared to "native" speeds. So I would say that 272 jug on HS 163 carb is a no-go option. (Albeit it seems to be no problem with HS-224 or HS-234 carburetor).
Changing the needles may be good, but probably not necessary-the tune will be just something else on the H needle than 1 to 1 1/4 counterclokwise and the saw will need a little more care.
Coments and sugestions?
The main difference between involved carbs (HS-163A for 162 or 266; HS-224 or HS-234A for 268; HS-260 for 268 or 272) is that:
HS-163A Venturi dia. 15,9 mm, hi-speed needle 43A-71
HS-224A Venturi dia. 17,5 mm, hi-speed needle 43A-71
HS-234A Venturi dia. 17,5 mm, hi-speed needle 43A-152
HS-260 Venturi dia. 17,5 mm, hi-speed needle 43A-152
Low speed needle 43A-70 in all above, metering and pumping equipment being the same. I had no luck trying to find jet diameters of abovementioned carburetors, which if differs, make considerable difference. Anyone knows for sure?
So, some math:
Husqvarna 162 (61,5 ccm) no load 12500 rpm, under load 9300 rpm
Husqvarna 268 (67 ccm) no load 12500 rpm, under load 9000 rpm
Husqvarna 272 (72 ccm) no load 13500 rpm, under load 9300 rpm
No load, carburetor native to the saw:
162 needs 768,7 litres of air per minute, producing 1,07 meter/second velocity in the venturi
268 needs 837,5 litres of air per minute, producing 0,96 meter/second velocity in the venturi
272 needs 972 litres of air per minute, producing 1,12 meter/second velocity in the venturi
Under load, native carburetor:
162 needs 572 litres of air per minute, producing 0,80 meter/second velocity in the venturi
268 needs 603 litres of air per minute, producing 0,69 meter/second velocity in the venturi
272 needs 669 litres of air per minute, producing 0,77 meter/second velocity in the venturi
With HS-163 carburetor, these jugs will produce
No load
268 1,26 m/s, which is 117% of the velocity in the venturi compared to 162 cylinder with no load
272 1,35 m/s, which is 126% of the velocity in the venturi compared to 162 cylinder with no load
Under load
268 0,87 m/s, which is 109% of the velocity in the venturi compared to 162 cylinder under load
272 0,93 m/s, which is 117% of the velocity in the venturi compared to 162 cylinder under load
Since HS-163 was mounted on first Husky´s 266 (66,7 ccm), it will sure go OK with a 268 jug. I know that for the 266, carbs were changed in favor of carbs with 17,5 mm venturi, but no matter now.
Higher speed in the venturi makes the saw more sensitive to actual tune, depending on temperature of the air, of the saw, humidity, etc. Lower speed-lower sensitivity, thus lower need for caring about the saw during the work, thus better productivity and less probability to seize it.
From what I know and understand about carburetors and aerodynamics, no big deal about 268 jug and HS-163, since the increase compared to Husky 162 is not too great and is proven in 266.
The numbers for 272 cylinder are quite well on the high side. I think that 26% increase in speed in venturi would make the saw damn iffy to tune, not talking about changes during heating the saw up in longer cuts. Probably even the jets would have problems with contributing, not taking into account possible problems of turbulences around throttle and choke flap with such speedier flow compared to "native" speeds. So I would say that 272 jug on HS 163 carb is a no-go option. (Albeit it seems to be no problem with HS-224 or HS-234 carburetor).
Changing the needles may be good, but probably not necessary-the tune will be just something else on the H needle than 1 to 1 1/4 counterclokwise and the saw will need a little more care.
Coments and sugestions?
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Frank............I think you are way overthinking this...on the other hand I could not accomplish the math you went through.... The 163 carb will run all these saws....the 224, 234 carbs will run the 266XP and 268XP better...the 260 will run a ported 268XP and ported 272XP better yet....I don't have the math to verify it for you but I do have some experience with this saw family both in red and orange and have mixed and matched many parts from different saws. Veliocty in the carb seems to not be a problem as long as the carb can feed the engine. You are not feeding the combustion chamber with the carb you are only feeding the crankcase and to a point in my experience bigger is better...but again I am not expert nor a math whiz so this just MHO....
Frank Savage
ArboristSite Operative
The math was simple: revs per minute>revs per second, combined with the cylinder volume>equals total sucked volume per second. This, divided by area of the venturi makes the speed. It´s just for slight ilustration, because with smaler venturi and rising flow speed, friction and pressure looses come to play-meaning that with given underpressure (suction) made in crankcase, with smaller dia. (=more restrictive veturi), potential flow speed (and volume) decreases. That´s why carbs with 17,5 mm venturi runs the bigger cylinders better.
I was looking for first hand experience, thanks for it. So to verify once again (better before ordering the parts)-the 268 and 272 cylinder will just bolt on the 61/162 crankcase and the 163 carb with 162 intake will just bolt to it?
I was looking for first hand experience, thanks for it. So to verify once again (better before ordering the parts)-the 268 and 272 cylinder will just bolt on the 61/162 crankcase and the 163 carb with 162 intake will just bolt to it?
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Yes they will.... if you also have correct bolts.....but as Niko already said there are 2 different 268 cyls..the Gillardoni which is open port (less power) and the 268XP Mahle cyl and though the 163 might be semi suitable for the non XP 268 I would consider it counter productive on either the 268XP or 272XP cyl...meaning it would probably run but would not generate full power without serious carb modification. Changing carb needles would make no difference, as again these only limit the supply of fuel to the metering orifices in the carb bore and these are sized for the different sized motors.....if the orifice is a certain size it will only flow a certain rate at max and not beyond no matter how much fuel is suppied to it. I would simply come up with a 234 and up carb. These are designed to flow the correct amounts for these motors of these displacements. As I said earlier these carbs are not directly feeding the combustion chamber..they are feeding the crankcase, which in turn feeds the combustion chamber and volume of intake is important.. as is correctly metered fuel.
SawTroll
Information Collector
That doesn't quite fit with the story the IPLs told me. I have seen inaccurate/incomplete lists before though, believe at least one was in a Tillotson document.......
HS-224 was used on the 266 from 1985, and on the 66, but not on the 268. The early 268s used the HS-234, but changed to HS-260 around 1990. The suffixes wasn't allways "A", they varied - but I have no idea what they were about......
Frank Savage
ArboristSite Operative
I know well that primarily the crankcase is being fed, but if no leak is present, then the same amount of mix which goes into the cylinder must go through crankcase. The intake-crankcase volume has to do with underpressure created on upstroke, resp. with pressure diferential creating intake flow through carb.
I was afraid mainly of the jets and orifices problem, of which I have not found any info about diameters.
Now I have no acceptable way to get 234/260 carb, so I will probably stick with the 268 closed port (which is very close to 266 in displacement, so it is more likely to work), instead of risking a lean mixture scoring in anything bigger. I have another saw of the 162/266/268 kind on the way, so it may have better carb for it. I will not order anything until this second saw comes, at least beacuse of having all parts shipped for one postage.
SawTroll: I may be wrong, of course, as well as the Tilly refernce list I was refering to...
I was afraid mainly of the jets and orifices problem, of which I have not found any info about diameters.
Now I have no acceptable way to get 234/260 carb, so I will probably stick with the 268 closed port (which is very close to 266 in displacement, so it is more likely to work), instead of risking a lean mixture scoring in anything bigger. I have another saw of the 162/266/268 kind on the way, so it may have better carb for it. I will not order anything until this second saw comes, at least beacuse of having all parts shipped for one postage.
SawTroll: I may be wrong, of course, as well as the Tilly refernce list I was refering to...
I really like this family of saws...albeit they are difficult to decipher.
The 166se is a real mystery for sure and hard to dig up info on.
I'm looking forward to posting a couple of threads on two interesting models from this family when I have time.
--I surly will need Cantdog’s “hands-on” experience and SawTroll’s extensive historical knowledge to get it sorted.
The 166se is a real mystery for sure and hard to dig up info on.
I'm looking forward to posting a couple of threads on two interesting models from this family when I have time.
--I surly will need Cantdog’s “hands-on” experience and SawTroll’s extensive historical knowledge to get it sorted.
Nico, I have a 162se with dual thin rings ,ever heard of them ?thanks Keith
Have just bought a Husqvarna 1621 here in Australia for $AU50. Looks like the 162 se on the pics. Just got it today and spend half an hour with petrol and brush trying to get the grime off it. Not in very good cosmetic condition. Trying to clean up the plastic but the stains are well embedded into the plastic won't come out. Any ideas on this? Top cover has a couple cracks and would like to replace. Was told it is 44 cc's. I didn't realise it was such a heavy beast for such a small motor. Anyway a quick 5 minute check revealed the on off switch is floppy and doesn't work, the rubber mounts seem worn as it flops around on the chassis but haven't looked yet, and the spring loaded pull start is limp and cord doesn't fully retract some times. Looked in fuel tank and saw some black stuff which may have been fuel so tried to start and it did fire up after a few pulls and sounded healthy but blew out some smoke but not surprised. So, where will i look for the parts? I don't mind going looking O/S for them. Will take a couple pics and post when i have cleaned it up more and sorted what i need. Hopefully the mechs are ok.
they are just shy of 62 cc, it is the pro model of the bullet proof
61 firewood saw .It shares the same cyl with the johnny 630
61 firewood saw .It shares the same cyl with the johnny 630
Many thanks. The seller sold it as 44 cc. Thought it was a bit heavy for a smaller motor. Noticed many parts available on ebay. Taking it in for service and seeing what's wrong with. Was thinking of throwing it away if too many probs but maybe not. I notice there is a later model chain brake advertised on ebay for these saws. Any idea if they can be upgraded?
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