I want to improve my climbing rig

[Fireaxman]

Not Real clear to me whether you are climbing SRT or DdRT, but it sounds like SRT. Never found a friction hitch that would work well on SRT. Really like the I'D for SRT descent. 2treeornot2tree pm me, you sell cheap I buy. I use the large one, find it works equally well for me on HTP, Blaze, Ivy, Blue Streak, or Spearment. I dont mind the changeover, I leave a Revolver ($28.95 Sherrill Page 85) in the outside hole of my top ascender, hang on my top ascender, install my I'D below the top ascender, bring the rope tail through the Revolver to make a RADS, pull up to take slack in the I'D, release to weight the I'D, remove top ascender (or leave it on and use it as a RADS), Descend I'D or work RADS. Great system for working 100 foot pines with 60 feet of clear bole.

HTP Great SRT, sucks DdRT. Ivy pretty good SRT and DdRT, but cover soft, picks easily, glazes easily, wears out quick. Blue Streak good DdRT, sucks SRT. Tonight I'm buying 200 more feet of Blaze. Good SRT (but not as good as HTP), Good DdRT (but not as good as Ivy), Tough, long life, just a real good compromise for the two climbing styles.

Never saw Blakes that could not be dresssed properly to work well on DdRT. Got to fool with number and placement of wraps to customize for your body weight and climbing style. But again, Sucks SRT.

Figure 8 fun, but no autolocking features for safety, and twists rope badly on long descents. GrisGris very good, but has a real "Fine" sweet spot. Too Much Pull Too Fast, not enough locks off. Works well on a RADS, but needs that "Friction Hand" behind it. I've burned up a couple pair of gloves. Again, Really Like the I'D for descent and RADS.

 

[Carburetorless]

Prussic refers to the way the knot is tied, actually they are all different configurations of a prussic. I have always heard this one referred to as a plain prussic. You can add or subtract coils as needed. The three under, two over has worked best for me in past years as a climbing hitch. Back when I was 165 pounds I used two under, two over. It descends the same as a blakes or any other friction hitch only it runs a lot smoother than a blakes or tautline hitch. However, I have been using a better option in the past 3 years or so.

Yes, that is an old PI line that has been relegated to a tag line now.

I tried that hitch with my current rope which is really stiff, the only way I can get it to stop is by pulling up on the tail of the upper coil, and the only way to get it to release is by pulling down on the upper coil.

I need a more pliable rope.

That PI looks like it takes the knot real well. Do they make it in 7/16/11mm?

Also; Do you use it as a work line, or just as a climbing line?

 

[tree md]

Well, I am not sure what kind of line you are using but that knot has worked well for me on any arborist rope I have used it on for the past 20 years. Sounds like your rope is the problem with the hitches you are trying to use. If you are having to pull down a coil or do anything like that the line is not taking the knot well or you are not dressing it properly.

Yes, I use that old line for light duty lowering and as a tag line. It was taken out of service for climbing 2 years ago.

 

[Carburetorless]

Not Real clear to me whether you are climbing SRT or DdRT, but it sounds like SRT. Never found a friction hitch that would work well on SRT. Really like the I'D for SRT descent. 2treeornot2tree pm me, you sell cheap I buy. I use the large one, find it works equally well for me on HTP, Blaze, Ivy, Blue Streak, or Spearment. I dont mind the changeover, I leave a Revolver ($28.95 Sherrill Page 85) in the outside hole of my top ascender, hang on my top ascender, install my I'D below the top ascender, bring the rope tail through the Revolver to make a RADS, pull up to take slack in the I'D, release to weight the I'D, remove top ascender (or leave it on and use it as a RADS), Descend I'D or work RADS. Great system for working 100 foot pines with 60 feet of clear bole.

HTP Great SRT, sucks DdRT. Ivy pretty good SRT and DdRT, but cover soft, picks easily, glazes easily, wears out quick. Blue Streak good DdRT, sucks SRT. Tonight I'm buying 200 more feet of Blaze. Good SRT (but not as good as HTP), Good DdRT (but not as good as Ivy), Tough, long life, just a real good compromise for the two climbing styles.

Never saw Blakes that could not be dresssed properly to work well on DdRT. Got to fool with number and placement of wraps to customize for your body weight and climbing style. But again, Sucks SRT.

Figure 8 fun, but no autolocking features for safety, and twists rope badly on long descents. GrisGris very good, but has a real "Fine" sweet spot. Too Much Pull Too Fast, not enough locks off. Works well on a RADS, but needs that "Friction Hand" behind it. I've burned up a couple pair of gloves. Again, Really Like the I'D for descent and RADS.

I tried to get 2TONT2T to give me his price, but he hasn't responded, maybe he changed his mind.

I'm considering either a gri gri or the I'D, the I'D has the anti-panic function, so no burned gloves. But shouldn't the gri gri grab the rope if you let go of the handle?

For rope I'm almost sold on the PI. I've been climbing SRT, but I'm looking towards going with a double style for limb walking.

 

[tree md]

Well, like Fireaxe said, you are not going to find any friction hitch that will work well on a single line. Most traditional climber's might enter the tree SRT, but most like to work on a doubled line. I know I do.

 

[Carburetorless]

Well, like Fireaxe said, you are not going to find any friction hitch that will work well on a single line. Most traditional climber's might enter the tree SRT, but most like to work on a doubled line. I know I do.

What kind of setup are you working with?

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

single rope

Some ropes are more for mountain or cave use. Tying knot in these will be a problem. Mechanical devices will work with these ropes. Like Tree MD said adding or subtracting wraps will custimize the hitch or prussic. Thanks for the pic Tree MD.

 

[Carburetorless]

Some ropes are more for mountain or cave use. Tying knot in these will be a problem. Mechanical devices will work with these ropes. Like Tree MD said adding or subtracting wraps will custimize the hitch or prussic. Thanks for the pic Tree MD.

I looked at some Sterling ropes, 7/16ths HTP, they're pretty stiff, actually a lot beefier than I expected for a 7/16ths rope, but too stiff to tie easily.

I looked at some rescue rope in a 3/8ths it was actually pretty knotable, and the strength(5397 lbs) wasn't bad for a smaller rope. I almost bought it, but one of my must haves in a rope is the ability to perform a pick off if needed, and I think the 3/8ths is just a little light. The larger diameter in the same rope though has a tighter weave in the sheath, so.

The biggest problem I'm having in finding the right rope is the fact that the shops that sell rope all have a small selection of rope, and most of them cater to rock climbers, so most of their selection is dynamic rope with a few static ropes thrown in here and there.

I'd like to find a place that has a demo set up with the entire line of climbing ropes rigged and ready to try out, but none of the shops around here have anything near that.

I'm planning a trip to FootSloggers, they have a climbing tower, and maybe I can get in some time on some of the gear I've been looking at.

 

[Fireaxman]

Looked it up on the Web, FootSloggers looks like a mountaineering shop. You need to find an Arborist Supply. How far are you from Greensborough, NC? Home of Sherrilltree. Could also check your yellow pages for Vermeer dealers, they often handle arborist supplies. Also look up Blue Ridge Arborist Supply. They have several outlets in Virginia.

I think Mountaineering ropes are dramaticly different from Arborist ropes. Rock climbers like a lot of stretch in their ropes to catch a shock load without cutting the climber in half. Arborists dont usually want a lot of stretch, especially not for SRT.

Ivy is a good choice. Good multi-purpose rope. Takes a knot Very Well. In my experience, just does not hold up well in heavy service. Outer jacket is a little too soft in my opinion. I had my 200 T hanging on my lanyard, shut down, and the Ivy brushed against the chain. I keep my chain sharp, even though the chain was not turning it cut a few threads in the jacket. Advanced my tie-in with the tail without a cambium saver, DdRT, oak limb picked a few more threads. Came down a little fast on a Blakes, DdRT, glazed the Ivy. Now 200 feet of Ivy is a 130, a 40, and a few scraps, in less than a year. Been climbing on a 150 of Blaze for much longer and it is still a 150 and in good shape.

 

[Carburetorless]

Looked it up on the Web, FootSloggers looks like a mountaineering shop. You need to find an Arborist Supply. How far are you from Greensborough, NC? Home of Sherrilltree. Could also check your yellow pages for Vermeer dealers, they often handle arborist supplies.

I'm going to call FootSloggers to see what gear they have, I'm still want to go there and try out their tower.

I lived in Greensboro for about a year, now I'm about 4 hours away.

I've googled for arborist suppliers in this area, but all the results are at least 7 or 8 hours drive from me. I hadn't thought of searching Vermeer dealers. I'll give it a try.

Thanks for the tip.

Googled Vermeer dealers The closest one is on the other end of the sate

 

[beastmaster]

I've been thinking about using something like that. I'm waiting to find the rope I want.

Anyway, I'm thinking maybe a Gri Gri or I'D with some type of friction hitch or rope grab that will grab under pressure or fall, so I'll have a way to ascend and a backup for the descent device just in case, cause it feels a little weird to descend on a single safety.

I was toying around in my back yard today, using a gri gri and above that (experimenting with) various prussic knots attached to a pulley. I tethered a small clavis above the knot and tied the other end to my belt. I think it has potential after I work out a few bugs. I think my little rockmen device might work too, if I tethered the little cable to my belt so it would open when I descended.
All in all it only takes me a few seconds to remove my hand ascender and pulley, so I can descend on my gri gri. I don't use a locking carabiner on the pulley so I can remove it in a swift fluid motion(hear me tell it. Ha)

 

[Carburetorless]

I was toying around in my back yard today, using a gri gri and above that (experimenting with) various prussic knots attached to a pulley. I tethered a small clavis above the knot and tied the other end to my belt. I think it has potential after I work out a few bugs. I think my little rockmen device might work too, if I tethered the little cable to my belt so it would open when I descended.
All in all it only takes me a few seconds to remove my hand ascender and pulley, so I can descend on my gri gri. I don't use a locking carabiner on the pulley so I can remove it in a swift fluid motion(hear me tell it. Ha)

Is the gri gri tricky to use? I'm thinking you have to pull the tail of your rope up to get it to grab the rope, of course you have to do that to advance it anyways. How is the gri gri for descending; will it run away with you if you pull the handle too hard, and how does it recover if you do?

I was also wondering if you can attach the gri gri to a weighted rope, or if you have to place it on before you sit in your saddle.

 

[Carburetorless]

Ivy is a good choice. Good multi-purpose rope. Takes a knot Very Well. In my experience, just does not hold up well in heavy service. Outer jacket is a little too soft in my opinion. I had my 200 T hanging on my lanyard, shut down, and the Ivy brushed against the chain. I keep my chain sharp, even though the chain was not turning it cut a few threads in the jacket. Advanced my tie-in with the tail without a cambium saver, DdRT, oak limb picked a few more threads. Came down a little fast on a Blakes, DdRT, glazed the Ivy. Now 200 feet of Ivy is a 130, a 40, and a few scraps, in less than a year. Been climbing on a 150 of Blaze for much longer and it is still a 150 and in good shape.

:bang: The more I hear people talk about what they climb on the harder it is to choose a line. lol

It's all good info though.

How does the Blaze knot? What are you using for a hitch? Does it bother you that you're climbing on one of the weakest lines out there, or do you even notice?

 

[tree md]

That PI line that I showed you in the pic lasted me for 3 years. The one I am climbing on now, Poison Hivy is in it's second year of service and is in great shape. And that is with climbing everyday and the added high volume of storm damage I did over the Summer. I have nothing but good things to say about that line. Works well in mechanical ascenders too. It took awhile for the PI to grow on me (pun intended) but it has become my favorite climbing line.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

Is the gri gri tricky to use? I'm thinking you have to pull the tail of your rope up to get it to grab the rope, of course you have to do that to advance it anyways. How is the gri gri for descending; will it run away with you if you pull the handle too hard, and how does it recover if you do?

I was also wondering if you can attach the gri gri to a weighted rope, or if you have to place it on before you sit in your saddle.

You would have to pull up on the tail of the rope to advance the gri gri. Its decends ok, ut if you freak and pull on the handle hard you will decend faster as where the id has a anti panic funtion. You can not put the gri gri on while the rope it tensioned. You could put it on up in the tree you would have to take your weight off the rope. Just get a piece of 16 strand and a vt hitch. Climb it a while then change when you have more experience. Stay away from the rock climbing shop.

 

[Carburetorless]

You would have to pull up on the tail of the rope to advance the gri gri. Its decends ok, ut if you freak and pull on the handle hard you will decend faster as where the id has a anti panic funtion. You can not put the gri gri on while the rope it tensioned. You could put it on up in the tree you would have to take your weight off the rope. Just get a piece of 16 strand and a vt hitch. Climb it a while then change when you have more experience. Stay away from the rock climbing shop.

I'd rather have the I'D for sure.

As for a hitch, I'm considering a knut, since it's self tending. Once I decide on my line I'll try a few to be sure.

The knut seems simple and functional, self tending if you keep the legs spread apart. I'm looking for a way to space a couple of biners to do that.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

Car, not trying to offend but it sounds like you don't have the knowledge of the rope stuff to savely do climbing. Maybe you should just trim from the ground. I wont even consider climbing on 3/8 rope.

 

[Carburetorless]

That PI line that I showed you in the pic lasted me for 3 years. The one I am climbing on now, Poison Hivy is in it's second year of service and is in great shape. And that is with climbing everyday and the added high volume of storm damage I did over the Summer. I have nothing but good things to say about that line. Works well in mechanical ascenders too. It took awhile for the PI to grow on me (pun intended) but it has become my favorite climbing line.

I like the look of PI/PHI, the PI reminds me of the very first rope I ever rappelled on. I'm sort of liking the Velocity Cool too.

 

[Carburetorless]

Car, not trying to offend but it sounds like you don't have the knowledge of the rope stuff to savely do climbing. Maybe you should just trim from the ground. I wont even consider climbing on 3/8 rope.

It's better than the bailing twin I've been using. :yoyo:

 

[VA-Sawyer]

Carby,
I think you are way too concerned about rope strength. While the human body can, if properly supported, survive a 40G impact, a climber won't come close to surviving more than 4 or 5 G's under the best of conditions, if the rope is what catches you. The problem is the way the rope is attached to your body. The focus point of load is basicly in front of your belt buckle, and will tend to fold your body backwards during the shockload. If you have both hands up on the rope to keep your upper body from flopping back, you might be able to hang on at 4 G's and prevent a broken back. Probably not at 5 G's. If you don't have any hold on the rope, you could get a broken back pretty easy at 2 G's. A 200 lb climber at 2G's is only applying a 400 lb load to the rope. When wearing a typical climbing saddle, your body is the real weak link in the event of a fall, not the rope.
Move the anchor point up high on your back, and things change greatly in the body's favor. That is why FALL ARREST harnesses anchor there, or high on/over the front of the shoulders. Even a parachute that was anchored near your belt buckle would probably break your back when it opened.

I also use and like the PI from Sherrill Tree. I use an ICE eye2eye with a Distel hitch and a micro pulley.
Long decents on figure 8, and throw a quick wrap around my leg if dropping on the hitch for more than a few feet. It keeps the knot cooler.
Rick