Idiot's guide to sharpening chains?

[Heffalump]

When it comes to bar lengths, chain types, and filing angles, you're best served by throwing away the manual. Seriously. The world of chainsaws is chock-full of corner cases and special circumstances.

Example:
My Jonsereds 111S is "supposed" to max out at a 36" bar. However, if I move to a 7-pin sprocket with a skip chain filed at a little deeper angle, I can run a 46" bar with acceptable performance. For clarification, a skip chain has less cutting teeth on it than a standard full comp chain of the same length.

Assuming 0deg is straight perpendicular to the bar (parallel to the crankshaft), a shallower file angle will take a bigger bite out of the wood, but will require more work to do so. A deeper angle on the tooth will take a smaller bite, but will require less force. This may be a little easier on the saw, depending on the strength of the engine. Some folks say that a deeper angle will keep a chain sharper for longer. I have no data to validate that as true or false.

I sharpen my chains at 35deg. Why? Because why the heck not? I have a Timberline sharpener and I have the additional angle guides. It allows me to sharpen at 25, 30, and 35deg. I chose 35. I'm not lookin' to win races, and I like the way all my saws perform.

Rakers need to be set below the top of the cutting tooth. Standard setting is about .020" below the point on the face of the cutting tooth. Deeper than that, and you're taking bigger bites of wood. Shallower, and you are not putting as much load on the saw. Shallow enough, and you may as well use bicycle chain.

If you truly want to hand file, look into a Granburg style file guide. There is a Stihl FG-2 in the TradingPost section right now. Get a crappy old bar to file on and put it in a bench vice. Pull the chain off the saw for filing makes life easier. Plus then you can clean and de-burr the bars.

Find the oldest old fart that loiters around the Stihl dealership or other small-engine repair shop and bribe him with food or beer.

 

[blackstone]

Those are great suggestions and info.

I'll check the trading post out for that Granburg.

To clarify, are you saying that it doesn't matter what I file the cutters, as long as they're all the same?

 

[Heffalump]

To clarify, are you saying that it doesn't matter what I file the cutters, as long as they're all the same?

Granted, in life, there are always limits and thresholds and extremes.

I will not say that you can expect positive results with ANY angle. For the sake of this post and the concepts we're discussing, I will say that the "hard rule" of 25deg isn't really a "hard rule." Additionally, I will say with complete confidence that one could choose any saw, any chain brand, and sharpen to any angle between 25deg and 35deg and, provided the bar length is not horribly inappropriate, all the cutting teeth are the same angle and the same length, and all the rakers are properly adjusted, one would have positive results.

 

[blackstone]

Thanks for that clarification, Heffalump

 

[jr27236]

Blackstone,
I have that HF sharpener and it works just fine for me. The saw head bevel is set as said. Now you want to just set the angle on the cutting edge, I use 30° and it works perfect watch the video on how to use it, you'll be fine and tearing through wood. Mount it to a bench or a something stable. Set it at 30 bring down the blade not spinning and adjust the cut depth stop on the back so you don't cut down too far and also set the lock stop that drops down behind each tooth as you rotate the chain. If is not cutting the tooth adjust the lock to put the chain forward until you get satisfactory results. Don't just bear down, tap each tooth 3-4 times fairly quickly, don't let it sit there and heat up the tooth, because you'll dull it right down and just wear your wheel away


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[blackstone]

Thanks, jr27236.

I'll give it a try in the morning.
Nothing to lose at this point unless I'm going to return the saw.
Will sleep on that decision.

It seems like this saw is cursed.

 

[ANewSawyer]

I doubt it is cursed, just has a dull chain. With dumb rakers. I would trade it for a better chain. Well, not better but with a more easily lowered raker. Lets see, you need a 3/8ths pitch, 72 drive link, .050 gauge chain. Pitch is the measurement between any three drive links. Credit goes to Madsen's: http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_pitch_gauge.htm Drive link number is the number of those things that stick out below the chain. They are called drive links and the gauge is the thickness of the drive links. Thickness measured from the side. Not front to back. Read Madsen's website. You may not understand it all now but it will make sense it time. Think about this. If you spend a month reading and only comprehend half of what you read, I know this from experience, then you will know 50% more than those who didn't read anything. It pays off when guys who pride themselves on their engine knowledge are stumped by how well your saw/trimmer/blower runs. Because you took the time to do some basic reading which most people don't even think to do. It takes time to understand this but it is, IMO, worth it.

 

[blackstone]

Some of the basis for my curse speculation is from my experience in my other thread with all the problems I had before with this saw.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/looking-for-a-new-saw-again.285283/page-4#post-5528809

I couldn't get it started for a couple days, the side cover came off, etc.

I'll probably put the chain on my HF sharpener and try it again tomorrow.

If not, take it back and hope my other saw works.

BTW, I'm not superstitious

 

[Philbert]

"There are lots of ways to sharpen - you need to find something that works for you" - Philbert
(Quoting myself here, since I have said it so many times here on A.S.!)

Here are the tools I have:
a Harbor Freight electric sharpener
A clamp on thing from, I think, Oregon
and hand filing kit from Jonered with a guide, couple round files and a flat and some kind of guide which I don't know how to attach and some piece of flat metal with a slot in the middle and notches at each end.

Sharpening can be pretty easy, and certain guides or tools can help. But they all work a little different. Best if you pick one, and work with that until you get results that you are happy with. Going back-and-forth will confuse you more.

It really helps if someone can show you in person, then observe and coach you. If you can find an AS member near by, or make it to a GTG, that is a good way to learn.

It also really helps if you have a picture in your mind of what you want your cutters to look like before you start to file or grind - so that you know if you are making progress. Some guys keep a short piece of new chain just to compare it to their sharpened chain. (P.S. your chain is called 'Vanguard' - it is a little bit different than conventional chain, but cuts fine if properly sharpened:
http://www.oregonproducts.com/homeowner/products/chain/d_series_sawchain.htm).

As far as the angles, they are starting points for an 'average user'. You get to choose any angle you want when you sharpen your own chains. If you have no reason to change, then start with the 25° top plate angle, the 10° 'down angle', and the 7/32" file. Don't forget to check the depth gauge height.

Philbert

 

[blackstone]

Thank you, Philbert.
I do have one of those Oregon guides and I'm going to download that info you included

 

[angelo c]

Thank you, Philbert.
I do have one of those Oregon guides and I'm going to download that info you included

What part of PA are you in. There are several members throughout the great Commonwealth that would offer assistance on the drop of a hat. You'll be amazed at the different techniques you'll pick up at a GTG(get together). And some great pie too.

 

[wideglide]

These guys have given you some great advice. I have nothing to add to how to sharpen a chain as I struggle with it at times myself. I think if you go buy a loop of stihl 33 rs 72 I think you'll be a lot happier with that saw.

 

[blackstone]

I am north of Pittsburgh near Kittanning.
Nixon has reached out to me and generously offered to sharpen my chains and he's not real far from me.
If his offer holds I'll ask if I can go next week because I'm getting ready today to go away for the weekend.

I appreciate all the generous, patient suggestions and advice.

For now, I think I will give a shot at using the Harbor Freight sharpener today and will report any success or failure.

Thanks, again

 

[7sleeper]

Just watch the vid I posted (from beginning to the end!!!) a few times and you will "understand" what to do!

7

 

[Heffalump]

Be sure to bring doughnuts for Nixon....

 

[tug]

Not sure if you have watched this youtube video yet. One of the better ones in my opinion.

 

[blackstone]

"Be sure to bring doughnuts for Nixon.... "

Of course.

 

[nixon]

"Be sure to bring doughnuts for Nixon.... "

Of course.

No. need to bring anything but yourself and the chains . Just trying to pay back some of the knowledge and help that was given to me .

 

[blackstone]

I don't mind donuts..

Well, sort of mixed results.
I did attempt to use my HF sharpener at 25 and it helped but didn't last long.
I felled a 14-15" and a 12" poplar and cut a little bit.

Grabbed my little 40 cc Husky and it cuts rings around this 55 cc Jonsered.
I haven't touched the chain on the Husky yet

Anyhow, tried to sharpen again, this time at 30 and I think I was missing the boat.

Old eyes have trouble seeing.

 

[Bilge Rat LT 20]

Before any chain work get good lighting and if needed some reading glasses. A good optivisor is great for seeing the details of the cutter. Get a good look at a new cutter then yours to see the difference.

Try a file with a guide, Granburg, etc. Easier to see what the file is doing.

Take a majic marker and color up the cutting surfaces then make a good file pass. Look at that new cutter and then yours.