Inside the MS462C - Snellerized Style

[Frank Rizzo]

Pretty amazing what the saw can do.

@blsnelling , what’s your take on the rational for the twisted exhaust port?

IMHO, other than mods that will increase emissions and noise and decrease fuel economy, we ain’t doing a thing to optimize performance much further.

Interested to hear stock compression and squish.

Not sure if all realize that it’s only 72cc vs the 461 77cc. My understanding is that the Fuelie 500i will be the 77cc version.

Haven’t really increased Saw performance since the 80’s if ya get down to brass tacks

 

[drf255]

Haven’t really increased Saw performance since the 80’s if ya get down to brass tacks

Not so sure on that, StratoCharged Quad port saws have increased performance over their predecessors, though I can’t say when Redmax invented it for sure.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

Not so sure on that, StratoCharged Quad port saws have increased performance over their predecessors, though I can’t say when Redmax invented it for sure.

My 064 from 1992 begs to differ sir - it’ll spank -0-la a modern 660 no problem ... in fact an older 044 done by a knowledgeable porter “wood” beat up on this 462c something fierce in its present state of tune

 

[drf255]

Ive ported quite a few saws Frank. Getting a 50mm 044 to beat a 462 is certainly no easy task.

I built a hybrid that beat a 462 through a 24" cant multiple times at the MMWS gtg this year

But this saw is like comparing a 1969 L88 corvette to a new Z06. Its not just raw straight line performance. Its the entire package.

Your 064, obviously with a 56mm big bore kit, is 27cc bigger than this 462. Apples to oranges.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

Ive ported quite a few saws Frank. Getting a 50mm 044 to beat a 462 is certainly no easy task.

I built a hybrid that beat a 462 through a 24" cant multiple times at the MMWS gtg this year

But this saw is like comparing a 1969 L88 corvette to a new Z06. Its not just raw straight line performance. Its the entire package.

Your 064, obviously with a 56mm big bore kit, is 27cc bigger than this 462. Apples to oranges.

I agree

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

@blsnelling , what’s your take on the rational for the twisted exhaust port?

I've been wondering about that too... maybe it has to do with the higher temperatures on the pto side of the combustion chamber and it helps keep that heat balanced.

 

[drf255]

I've been wondering about that too... maybe it has to do with the higher temperatures on the pto side of the combustion chamber and it helps keep that heat balanced.

I was thinking the same. Or maybe to balance transfer flow better? More instant flow on one side?

It’s certainly intriguing.

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

I was thinking the same. Or maybe to balance transfer flow better? More instant flow on one side?

It’s certainly intriguing.

I'm thinking most ideas for balancing transfer flow starts with staggering the uppers or enlarging only the pto side. Then I wondered about velocity increase and I'm suspecting the echo/shindaiwa design with the exhaust wrapped halfway around the fw side was an attempt at that.
Someone who is close to stihl should ask one of the engineers for some clarification.

 

[drf255]

I agree

I’m glad you do. It would be foolish not to.

The belief that some guy in his garage with a lathe and some grinding tools can beat the OEM at their own game is simply foolish. They are a Multibillion Dollar Company with hundreds of engineers working on designs 24/7.

They are limited by factors us hacks arent. Such as:
Product cost/Shareholder value
Emission and Noise Standards
Fuel Economy
Durability of parts/warranty concerns
Etc...

We have the latitude to play with the above that they don’t. In addition, we learned from their discoveries how to improve their products from decades ago. Mostly, with the knowledge they discovered themselves and we found in the newer models they’ve released.

I enjoy the hobby, but it does get sad when the oem gets near the point where no improvemnts are possible.

It’s very much akin to the late 60’s and 70’s automobile production. One used to be able to significantly increase performance on their own. The hot roddong hobby lost some of its luster when factory 10 second 1/4 mile cars are available, sometimes beating the cost of what a hobbiest can do, and having luxuries built into the models one couldn’t have dreamed of 30 years ago.

Get into a new M4 beemer and turn the A/C and radio up. Then slap some rear tires on it and do 10’s all day long at the track.

It’s all about balance.

 

[drf255]

I'm thinking most ideas for balancing transfer flow starts with staggering the uppers or enlarging only the pto side. Then I wondered about velocity increase and I'm suspecting the echo/shindaiwa design with the exhaust wrapped halfway around the fw side was an attempt at that.
Someone who is close to stihl should ask one of the engineers for some clarification.

We know that lowering the ex floor changes flow. It’s an area that Husky had Stihl beat with for years.

Conceivably, it may balance flow just like you postulate Jim.

 

[Frank Rizzo]

I’m glad you do. It would be foolish not to.

The belief that some guy in his garage with a lathe and some grinding tools can beat the OEM at their own game is simply foolish. They are a Multibillion Dollar Company with hundreds of engineers working on designs 24/7.

They are limited by factors us hacks arent. Such as:
Product cost/Shareholder value
Emission and Noise Standards
Fuel Economy
Durability of parts/warranty concerns
Etc...

We have the latitude to play with the above that they don’t. In addition, we learned from their discoveries how to improve their products from decades ago. Mostly, with the knowledge they discovered themselves and we found in the newer models they’ve released.

I enjoy the hobby, but it does get sad when the oem gets near the point where no improvemnts are possible.

It’s very much akin to the late 60’s and 70’s automobile production. One used to be able to significantly increase performance on their own. The hot roddong hobby lost some of its luster when factory 10 second 1/4 mile cars are available, sometimes beating the cost of what a hobbiest can do, and having luxuries built into the models one couldn’t have dreamed of 30 years ago.

Get into a new M4 beemer and turn the A/C and radio up. Then slap some rear tires on it and do 10’s all day long at the track.

It’s all about balance.

I do agree with regard to modern vehicles being FAR superior to the 70’s and 80’s offerings ... Chainsaws ? Nah ... the power-to-weight hasn’t really increased by much at all - now the whole “package” akin to what we see with the 462c is better but then again the oem has had 30 YEARS to improve ! Now the 462c is “hot” out of the box ... the op has done a (albeit small to my eyes) muffler-mod and has advanced the timing 8 deg (imho too much) - some “flow-enhancements” will perk it up more if done correctly... the limiting factor on these saws 241;261;362;462 is the filtration system ... I’m working on an aluminum adaptor/velocity stack that will replace the flimsy plastic that looses its purchase on the filter and allows fines into the firing chamber ... a known quantity to any and all who have run these saws extensively

 

[blsnelling]

I have not yet had this cylinder off so no idea on the exhaust port. Compression was 160 PSI on a SnapOn gauge after the first 1/2 tank.

 

[blsnelling]

My understanding is that the Fuelie 500i will be the 77cc version (though it’s listed as 80cc), guess we will see.

I thought it was 79cc. No?

I enjoy the hobby, but it does get sad when the oem gets near the point where no improvemnts are possible.

I'll be surprised if there aren't significant gains to be found in this saw. It looks to be an over grown 241/261 and those saws see big gains with the right porting.

 

[blsnelling]

Does anyone have PNs for dual dawgs and wider clutch cover? I've seen mention of it but am having trouble finding the info.

@ferris076

 

[DND 9000]

The MS 500i has 79.2cc 5kw (6.8hp)

Ms 462 bumber spike (inside on the machine) 1142 664 0500
MS 462 bumber spike on the chain sprocket cover 1142 664 0501

 

[blsnelling]

Thank you!

Now all I need to do is have you send me a 500i!

 

[blsnelling]

The MS 500i has 79.2cc 5kw (6.8hp)

Ms 462 bumber spike (inside on the machine) 1142 664 0500
MS 462 bumber spike on the chain sprocket cover 1142 664 0501

Does the outer spike use the same mounting hardware as the other pro saws? Same roller chain catcher?

 

[DND 9000]

As I see there is no roller chain catcher.

 

[blsnelling]

As I see there is no roller chain catcher.

That's what it's looking like here. I'll have to see of that can be changed.

http://motorsaegen-portal.de/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102053&start=40

 

[DND 9000]

Sorry, I was wrong. There is one 1122 650 7702