Introducing Brand New Wood Furnace to Market - The Drolet Tundra!

[spadjen]

Cloud IT, before you wage all out war on SBI, how 'bout waiting long enough to see how they handle some of these other customers now. It's possible that they have copped an attitude toward you personally or that who you have been dealing with just stinks at their job. Either way is not good customer service, but it is possible, at least at this point, that yours is an isolated incident as far as how they have handled your problems. Not pushing the big RED button for a few more days won't hurt, give them a chance to respond to these other guys first, see what happens, then proceed accordingly.

after ripping cloud it a new one this is one area i will back him. Dont push the big red button? He complained about this in September and lasted this long. He gave them much more rope then i would have. I just found out about this and my hand in on the button. that have a matter of days with me. I already have contacts with the attorney general and the state fire marshal. I also have no problem spending 2x the amount of money that i did on this furnace on a lawyer. This problem subjected my family to the effect of CO poisoning and i dont take that matter lightly. I know things get overlooked and that is as far as my understanding goes. Now it is time to fix this problem before the end of the week or i am taking action at every angle that i can. Do you realize that the medics took my 4 year old and 12 month old to the hospital to be checked for CO poisoning and found to have slightly low O2 levels. Thank god i have 4 CO detectors through out the house all hard wired together or else this may have had a different ending. Sorry if this sounds to aggressive to some or if cloud it does not like my previous post but i could care less. I get VERY angry when the safety of my kids are put in jeopardy and will AGGRESSIVELY go after ANY one that had a part in that. This is also aggravated by the fact that i gave up a perfectly good Drolet HT2000 and spent thousands of dollars on this furnace and duct work to improve the air quality for my 4 year old due to allergies. that is pointless now that i know the house is now full of fine ash dust and dangerous CO.

 

[spadjen]

Reading this after starting a roaring fire gives me a really crappy feeling! I just emptied my ash pan yesterday, so its clean, but I just opened the door and sure enough, I could feel plenty of air flowing out the ash pan door opening! WTF!

What are everyones front and flu temps? I have a magnetic (Rutland) gauge on the heat exchanger door that never reads higher than 300*F, and an internal flu probe in double wall black that never passes 400*F. I'm use to my old Vogelzang Norseman 2500 where front temps would reach 400*F - 500*F and flu temps would reach 800*F internally (about 24" above rear connector).

I have the fan set on the lowest setting and rarely does it stay on for more than 15 minutes at a time. My chimney is straight up other than 90* out the back, @27' tall, and I have a straight shot without any dampers of any sort. I have not measured my draft, but is seems to burn pretty well with front damper closed after about 20-30 minutes of wide open warm up.

PS- half my screws are stripped and very difficult to remove as well.

Eric

your flue temps are normal. i have same gauge on the front and probe in the stove pipe and i am getting the same

 

[A.S.Woodchucker]

I was ready to buy one of these as soon as this thread started! Wow all that for a $1500 price tag. well I thought I would wait a year and see how it holds up....Glad I did. I did however point a good friend into the direction to buy one, now I have to make a phone call and warn him or just tell him flat out DO NOT USE THE ASHPAN PERIOD. Shame on anyone for not letting people know of this problem....Cloud it or SBI .....

 

[djkost]

Mine is still on the pallet. I ddon't need the ashpan but they could have saved more money since they knew about the problem the ashpan caused if they just took it out and sealed the door. My problem is I hadhad to special order the furnace and iI'm not going to take the 25 percent restocking fee to return it. I will be calling them today. They can send a truck and check and pick it up if they don't resolve this.

 

[Cloud IT]

What???? You knew about this since September and you said nothing?? Asking you to keep quiet about this amounts to a corporate cover up. How in your right mind do you think it is ok not to warn other people of this potentially deadly safety hazard. When i realized what was going on it took me less then an hour to get on this forum and spread the word. I thought that is what sites like this was for. I asked you what this issues were with this furnace directly on the forum and in a pm and you ignored them. instead you sat back and did nothing in hopes of special treatment of a new furnace. if you ask me your just as bad as SBI in this case. coming to this forum and still posting and watching others purchase this furnace and subject there family to CO poisoning is mind blowing and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I thought there was no way they would design the air jacket into the ash pan area and that I had an isolated event. I was waiting on the fix for the blower mount and was first told there was no way to make a bracket and that because it would be changing the airflow of the system, they would have to recertify it and it would take some time.

When I saw your post I realized that my ash pan wasn't an isolated event as they lead me to believe.

 

[Cloud IT]

Obviously the ashpan is different, but the only other differences that I know of is a cast iron heat exchanger door, a c-cast baffle and our tubes are cut different (removal with a cotter pin). I do know our tubes glow cherry red every year and they are as straight as the day made. That and a larger plenum opening. In reality if the ashpan was fixed, I don't see the difference in price. There's not that much difference. I will say efficiency wise vs the Kuuma, they both run in the same temperature range on flue temps. They both operate with no smoke once up to temp, the difference is the combustion process is automated on the Kuuma. In the end it makes for a cleaner furnace, but I doubt there's a substantial difference in wood usage between the two. They both are very efficient. As far as price, I understand the Kuuma is a very well built furnace, and the combustion results are impressive, but not everyone can cough up 5,000 dollars after shipping. I'm lucky, I have a very nice furnace that I have maybe 1,500 into.

How did you get a PSG Caddy/1950 for $1500?

There are many more differences between the two. The Caddy is a different animal and is a well designed furnace. You keep saying that the blowers are the same, but according to the online documentation, they are not. Either you work for SBI and don't want to say so or you didn't look at the links I gave you previously showing that the Heatmax/Tundra come with a 1/4 HP blower and the Caddy has a 1/3 HP blower.

If I could get a Caddy for $1500 I would get one today. SBI thought they could cut corners and totally butchered the design that PSG spent years perfecting. How would you feel about your furnace if you couldn't remove the burn tubes to replace the baffle board? How would you feel if it spread fine ash throughout your home? How would you feel if your 3 year old daughters room was the longest run and stayed the coldest because you couldn't build any static pressure due to the design flaws of the furnace?

I won't even be able to touch spadjen's level of frustration with this furnace. Thank God my kid was never in danger and that she doesn't have allergies. I have allergies but that simply doesn't compare.

 

[laynes69]

I bought our furnace when usstove discontinued the line. It was made by PSG, just rebadged. I bought the furnace for 1999, then I received a 600 dollar tax rebate. I didn't receive all the parts from the store I purchased it from and in the end they gave me a 200 dollar credit. I don't work for SBI, I work in a research facility. While I agree they cut corners, it's half the price of a Caddy. Fyrebug clearly stated some things were changed to lower the price point. I didn't realize they didn't enclose the ashpan, and like I've stated many times it was a poor decision on their part.

Do I have ash throughout my home, yes I do. I'm not always careful removing them and I tend to make a mess. I'm also surrounded by hundreds of acres of farmland in a very rural area, it's impossible to not have dust unless I invested in Hepa system, which I won't do. Also I've had a portion of my lung removed, I know all too much about lung problems. I'm prone to pneumonia and I've had my lungs collapse multiple times in my life.

Things like a broken baffle happen, the C-cast baffle of the Caddy is a much meatier baffle and also higher in cost. How much I don't know. Also the tube design you showed is used in many stoves. Screws can also be stripped, it happens. The issue I see is that ash pan , which could have costed someone their life, I'd be pissed also if that was me.

I realize the blowers are different, but as far as static pressure is concerned, your feeding two 8" outlets into a complete duct system. Your not going to have enough flow no matter how big the blower is. My heat register in my bedroom goes thru about 60' of duct before it enters the room, and there's no problems with heat.
Our plenum is large, unlike the 2-8" openings.

Don't flame me. I agree that the ashpan design is poor, but the rest of the things that are being compared from one unit to the next, there's a difference in price for a reason. Even then the twist and lock design in the tubes are used in other stoves, the vermiculite baffles are also used in many other stoves. If the ashpan was enclosed, I don't see where it's a bad furnace. Just a poor decision on the company's part. The firebox design which I assume is the same design as the Caddy is bulletproof. Even then the design has changed on the Caddy from my design.

 

[Cloud IT]

I didn't even realize the baffle was different in the Caddy. Isn't that considered part of the firebox? I'm not sure how it couldn't be considered part of the firebox considering that it is the top part. Another misleading act by SBI in marketing the heatmax/tundra as having the same firebox as the Caddy IMO.

Do you have a picture of the C-cast baffle in your furnace? I'm willing to put money on that the original PSG design is not only more sturdy but equates to more complete combustion/better gasification.

Please don't confuse the intent of my words as flaming you. I simply pointed out to you that the blowers were different and you kept posting that they were the same. I'm glad you have taken the time to review the documentation and recant your position so that others reading this will get the correct info.

I'll agree that 2-8" openings won't move the volume of air a full plenum will. However, the fact that the blower isn't even bolted directly to the air jacket on the furnace and that most of the air escapes through the ash door are much bigger factors in limiting airflow than the size of the ducts.

The fact that another site member has confirmed my same issue with the blower should prove what I am saying. You opinion is valuable but simply speculation due to the fact that you don't have the same furnace as we do.

 

[Cloud IT]

Also, is your baffle made of vermiculite or ceramic fiber board?

 

[laynes69]

I didn't even realize the baffle was different in the Caddy. Isn't that considered part of the firebox? I'm not sure how it couldn't be considered part of the firebox considering that it is the top part. Another misleading act by SBI in marketing the heatmax/tundra as having the same firebox as the Caddy IMO.

Do you have a picture of the C-cast baffle in your furnace? I'm willing to put money on that the original PSG design is not only more sturdy but equates to more complete combustion/better gasification.

Please don't confuse the intent of my words as flaming you. I simply pointed out to you that the blowers were different and you kept posting that they were the same. I'm glad you have taken the time to review the documentation and recant your position so that others reading this will get the correct info.

I'll agree that 2-8" openings won't move the volume of air a full plenum will. However, the fact that the blower isn't even bolted directly to the air jacket on the furnace and that most of the air escapes through the ash door are much bigger factors in limiting airflow than the size of the ducts.

The fact that another site member has confirmed my same issue with the blower should prove what I am saying. You opinion is valuable but simply speculation due to the fact that you don't have the same furnace as we do.

The baffle has nothing to do with the firebox, when I say firebox it's the steel portion. It specifies in the manual the baffle is vermiculite, what's misleading about that? Either one function just the same, just one is more expensive than the other. My baffle is an inch and a half thick. The original design was stainless steel with a blanket, which was changed out to c-cast on the caddy. Of course it's stronger, it also cost more.

My blower isn't bolted to my furnace at the division either, it's bolted to the floor of my cold air return. I do have a gap and the only thing around that gap is some foil from the insulation. Also you keep stating airleaks around the ashpan cover, I have them around the loading door, ashpan cover, heat exchanger etc. The front isn't airtight, just like my old furnace wasn't airtight either. It doesn't hinder or hurt the function of the furnace, and in all reality keeps the front of the furnace cooler so I don't get burned. That big blower can overcome some loss, but it's limited on 2-8" supply's. I won't purchase a furnace unless I know the blower size and it's plenum opening size. I know that 2-8" ducts aren't enough to heat our home. I tore out and re-ducted our entire home.

Speculation goes both ways, you don't own a Caddy. Besides the ash pan issue, you seem upset because you don't have the quality of a Caddy. There's pricing for a reason, just why A Kuuma is 4500, and a Daka is 1,000. For 1500 on the Tundra, you get a large blower, a glass door, a fully insulated firebox with a stainless secondary burn setup, and an insulated baffle plus a large heat exchanger. That's quite an upgrade from a basic furnace, that costs almost the same price.

Unfortunately the ashpan issue has cause for concern, and those dealing with it currently have reason to be upset. It's really a shame, the furnace has potential.

 

[laynes69]

Thousands of stoves out there have vermiculite baffles in them. I would take a vermiculite baffle any day over steel. It won't warp, and it's insulation properties are ideal for combustion. Yes eventually it could wear, and it's more fragile, but it's a very common material that's used. You talk like its a bad thing, it's not. You just can't ram a poker into it or throw wood against it.

 

[Cloud IT]

The top of the "firebox" has nothing to do with the "firebox"? Ok sure...

What is misleading is Fyrebug stating to you on March 21st in this thread "Laynes... This is basically the Caddy firebox. Same heat exchanger. same firebox. Different blower & plenum hookup. Also, no option for oil or electrical. We've increased the size of the ash drawer that you see at the bottom. Also smaller than the Caddy." Fyrebug is a known rep for the company.

I keep mentioning the air leaks from the ash pan door because there is a gap all around the ash pan area that connects to the jacket around the furnace and when the blower kicks on it blows air out the front of the ash pan. At this point I don't think you can comprehend what I am saying because you don't have the same furnace.

Please point out to me where I have speculated anything about the Caddy.

Please point me to where I can get a tundra/heatmax for $1500. I paid $1800 + tax + shipping and it was the absolute cheapest I could get it for.

 

[Cloud IT]

Thousands of stoves out there have vermiculite baffles in them. I would take a vermiculite baffle any day over steel. It won't warp, and it's insulation properties are ideal for combustion. Yes eventually it could wear, and it's more fragile, but it's a very common material that's used. You talk like its a bad thing, it's not. You just can't ram a poker into it or throw wood against it.

I didn't say it was bad. We were told that the firebox was the same as the Caddy, it isn't.

However, they used cheap steel secondary tubes in the heatmax that warp so you can't remove them when you need to replace the fragile, mine arrived broken, vermiculite baffle.

Only you would turn that into a positive.

You keep stating things that simply aren't true and error in favor of the SBI. I question why you have such a crusade to paint a picture that the heatmax/tundra is the same thing as the Caddy. Hopefully people reading this will be able to see that and realize that you must have some sort of secondary agenda. I just want my furnace to perform as advertised and not kill my family in the process.

 

[laynes69]

Anyway you look at things, I could care less. I'm happy with what I have and have no problems with my furnace. I'm not standing up for SBI, like I say I have no connection to them whatsoever.

Whenever purchasing something like this, you should do some research. I spoke with users across the country with my furnace before I made the decision. I saved for 3 years to purchase it. The firebox in the Tundra is the same as the Caddy, I believe that. The fact that maybe design has changed on the tubes, I have no clue, nor does it matter to me. I knew the baffle was different in their literature. I won't post anymore on here, I don't own a Drolet Tundra.

In the end hopefully those who have purchased a tundra can get theirs fixed or replaced. I can't see a large corporation letting something like this slide, but then again who knows.

 

[Cloud IT]

spec·u·la·tion
noun

1. the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
2. See Layne's comment above "The firebox in the Tundra is the same as the Caddy" when he owns a 1950 hotblast.

Readers can draw their own conclusion. I'm done here. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the furnace.

 

[flotek]

Yeah not telling us was pretty rotten .. Peoples lives are at risk and you wait to see if you can benefit and hold out for hopes of your own neck to get paid .I have a 3 yr old and 14 yr old . We have lots of smoke detectors but no co detectors ( till now I just installed some) I ran it for a good month totally oblivious to this and dumped ash several times into the drawer over that time . Thankfully we are all okay and didn't experience any physical effects of it. . How is knowing this and Not saying anything about it to warn others of your findings any better than what sbi Is doing. ? Your worse than they are because you knew it is a flaw ..anyone using the ash drawer for other than a dump and empty shelf is running themselves at risk aside from the obvious concern the furnace is not too bad if ran a certain way . If there is any good to be said for this it made me aware of need for co alarms not just fire / smoke alarms. .woodburners should have both . The effects of co can stay in the body for. 8 hours . Some people who bought this furnace may never wake up if they ran it like a traditional furnace would be used. That's like seeing a child play on the tracks while a train roars ahead toward his path in the distance and you just walk on by whistling going about your business

 

[Cloud IT]

SBI lead me to believe that i simply had a defective unit and I didn't want to lead others to believe it was a design flaw when I didn't think it was. As soon as someone else complained about the same issue I confirmed I had the same issue.

Honestly I never even thought about someone putting hot coals in the ash pan and the CO from them burning circulating throughout the house. I thought it was an isolated instance and no more than an inconvenience. I'm sorry it was simply ignorance on my part.

 

[djkost]

I emailed the store where I bought mine and they are going to contact sci about this issue. Will inform people on this site when I hear something. Also tried to call sci and could not get though to them. Anyone speak to them today?

 

[trx250r87]

I emailed the company and received a reply in less than 24 hours stating that this is not normal and that they wanted photos.

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk

 

[Cloud IT]

I emailed the company and received a reply in less than 24 hours stating that this is not normal and that they wanted photos.

Sent from my Motorola RAZR MAXX using Tapatalk

That's exactly what they told me. Bunch of liars.