Is firewood made out of gold here?

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Firewood in this immediate area is going to be a very low priced commodity again this year, seasoned oak will be lucky to bring 100.00 per cord delivered within a ten mile radius, if we didn't get around 90% of our tops for nothing, it wouldn't be worth touching a saw.
More and more weekend competition.
 
Firewood in this immediate area is going to be a very low priced commodity again this year, seasoned oak will be lucky to bring 100.00 per cord delivered within a ten mile radius, if we didn't get around 90% of our tops for nothing, it wouldn't be worth touching a saw.
More and more weekend competition.

That many folks doing it for additional income? At those prices I don't see where anyone could be making a profit.
 
We several knuckle heads selling face cords for 35.00 last year. It's a 80% rural area, covered in hardwoods. Almost everyone owns several wooded acres, except those in town. They have no idea of production cost.
 
Firewood in this immediate area is going to be a very low priced commodity again this year, seasoned oak will be lucky to bring 100.00 per cord delivered within a ten mile radius, if we didn't get around 90% of our tops for nothing, it wouldn't be worth touching a saw.
More and more weekend competition.

If I was only getting a $100.00 per cord for oak, I would quit selling and just buy. :msp_scared:
 
Natural gas seems fairly reasonable, at the moment. Like any heating fuel, it tends to go up over heating season. We have NG heat, but seldom use it. Our cook stove and water heater are NG, and a lot cheaper to operate than electric. As you mentioned, the issue for people in the outlands is the lack of NG infrastructure. The option is propane, which can get pretty pricey.

Ya, propane is still pricey. Boss here has three hugemongous tanks, I think..hmm 60 thou gallon? Something like that. Even buying at that scale starting this year no summer or bulk discount.

Also heard from him the chinese are buying up so much weed spray and whatnot prices will be going up dramatically real soon now.
 
Ya, propane is still pricey. Boss here has three hugemongous tanks, I think..hmm 60 thou gallon? Something like that. Even buying at that scale starting this year no summer or bulk discount.

Also heard from him the chinese are buying up so much weed spray and whatnot prices will be going up dramatically real soon now.

I think China has a lot more control of American markets than anyone is willing to admit.
 
Price's already going up, and its only august. Oil is up 15% since last month. It's going to cost people an arm and a leg this winter. Especially if it gets as cold as they say it is. Thank god for the stock pile.
diesel just hit 4 bucks too.
 
Price's already going up, and its only august. Oil is up 15% since last month. It's going to cost people an arm and a leg this winter. Especially if it gets as cold as they say it is. Thank god for the stock pile.
diesel just hit 4 bucks too.

Yep, we're covered as far as firewood goes. Spent $47 to fill up the car today, with lo-test. I cringe when it's time to fill the 40 gal. tank on the diesel. I think fossil fuels are engineered such that they don't last more than a few months before deteriorating. Keeps people from stockpiling when prices are low. Low? I remember paying 19 cents a gallon for regular.
 
Yep, we're covered as far as firewood goes. Spent $47 to fill up the car today, with lo-test. I cringe when it's time to fill the 40 gal. tank on the diesel. I think fossil fuels are engineered such that they don't last more than a few months before deteriorating. Keeps people from stockpiling when prices are low. Low? I remember paying 19 cents a gallon for regular.


My low record is 12.9 during a local price war, a clark station against a tulsa.

High record during the embargo, ten bucks a gallon, two gallons max, about a one mile line...boy did that suck, ran out, we all got out and pushed (four guys in a van, all worked the sdame cement plant). The two gallons was just enough for us to get home and leave some dregs in the tank. Went right over to the nearest pawn shop bought two bicycles, got a closer to me job, so did the GF at the time.

I watched a guy with a big 'bago go into a packy, come out with two cases of ron rico rum, and open and dump them in his tank and drive away.
 
My low record is 12.9 during a local price war, a clark station against a tulsa.

High record during the embargo, ten bucks a gallon, two gallons max, about a one mile line...boy did that suck

I remember, boy do I ever remember. At the time I had 2 cars, one with a 20 gal. tank, and one with an 8 gal. tank. After they started letting us fill our tanks, I would fill the car with the 20 gal. tank and siphon it into the one with the 8 gal. tank (it got a lot better mileage). Now we have fuel, just can't afford to buy it.

One thing I've never figured out. I thought price fixing was illegal. So how is it that every gas station sells gas for the same price. Some buy it from a refinery down the street, some get it from a storage facility hundreds of miles away. No way can they all be paying the same price for that fuel.
 
If I was only getting a $100.00 per cord for oak, I would quit selling and just buy. :msp_scared:

no friggin' kidding. it takes me roughly 5 hours to fell, buck, split and stack a cord of wood. the splitting is a getting a little bit faster because i bought i used huskee hydro. i do it because i enjoy it, and i enjoy being outside.

even so, at $100/cord delivered for red oak, i'd just pay the man.
 
I think China has a lot more control of American markets than anyone is willing to admit.
I think that the Soviets and their kindred spirits here at home have proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that Hayek was right and Keynes was a crank. Suggesting that anybody or thing can "control" the market is akin to Monsanto claiming that their G.E. seeds are safe 'cuz they've whipped Mother Nature into submission, and chaos theory applies to everything in the universe but them and all their really smart college kid chemists. Pure hubris... and yet they all still try. China got suckered into buying a pile of our Treasuries is all. The Fed actually holds more of our national debt than the Chinese, and it is they that control or currency... and by extension our politicians and our country.

"Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws" - Amschel Rothchild

The Federal Reserve Explained - YouTube

Price's already going up, and its only august. Oil is up 15% since last month. It's going to cost people an arm and a leg this winter. Especially if it gets as cold as they say it is. Thank god for the stock pile.
diesel just hit 4 bucks too.

'Cane in the Gulf is the justification for anything with a carbon atom to get jacked, and they will. Couple that with the corn/drought/ethanol subsidy debacle and we'll be lookin' at $5-6 by the election... and then the crap will definitely hit the fan. Any bets on gasoline at $10 by this time next year. It'll be for our own good... to teach us to conserve like all of those good European facists. Just look at what a wonderful success they've created, then drop trow and bend over, 'cuz it's coming to your town too.

My low record is 12.9 during a local price war, a clark station against a tulsa.

High record during the embargo, ten bucks a gallon, two gallons max, about a one mile line...boy did that suck, ran out, we all got out and pushed (four guys in a van, all worked the sdame cement plant). The two gallons was just enough for us to get home and leave some dregs in the tank. Went right over to the nearest pawn shop bought two bicycles, got a closer to me job, so did the GF at the time.

I watched a guy with a big 'bago go into a packy, come out with two cases of ron rico rum, and open and dump them in his tank and drive away.

Got a job workin' nights at a really dangerous gas station that had a habit of gettin' robbed every other week... before the shortage. It was full service, and the locals loved makin' the White guy jump and check their oil, tire pressure, RADIATOR (had more than one blast off in my face) - "I swear mister... I just come from around the block... it ain't even warm..."
So I took my revenge by short setting the pumps every chance that I got. The pumps used to have a key that reset the readout to zero after each sale. We learned that if you clicked it a little too hard or fast, it would only reset partially. We (myself and the other sociopaths that suffered there) pulled every trick in the book... and then made up some new ones. Open oil cans from the bottom and then put the empty back in the rack. Short stick the next jerk who gave ya crap and show him a quart low, then punch the spout into the top of the empty can, keep a rag over the bottom, and act like you were pouring a quart in. Toss the can, sink the stick all the way in this time and what do ya know... "you're fine bud... right at full" as you show him the dipstick.

Yeah... we gave 'em full service alright.

I remember, boy do I ever remember. At the time I had 2 cars, one with a 20 gal. tank, and one with an 8 gal. tank. After they started letting us fill our tanks, I would fill the car with the 20 gal. tank and siphon it into the one with the 8 gal. tank (it got a lot better mileage). Now we have fuel, just can't afford to buy it.

One thing I've never figured out. I thought price fixing was illegal. So how is it that every gas station sells gas for the same price. Some buy it from a refinery down the street, some get it from a storage facility hundreds of miles away. No way can they all be paying the same price for that fuel.

Just your perception. The station owners are the ones that don't make any big money. You pay the increase immediately when the price goes up, and yet you are the last to see the decrease - if ever - when the price comes back down. They compete locally, so if the guy across the street drops a penny and you don't, he's getting all of the volume til you at least match. One drive away can take a half day's sales to recover, by which point you're just breaking even for the day. Then there's spills, maroons that try to drive away with the pump, people runnin' into the islands, credit card fraud, counterfeiters, people destroyin' your bathrooms and stealin' anything that ain't nailed down, inspections, pump scaling and maintenance, 18 different kinds of fees and taxes... it's a living at best. Gasoline is traded as a global commodity, so drilling more, sucking Alaska's ANWAR dry and converting tar sands is all an asinine deception. Gas is more because the dollars used to buy it are shrinking every day, and that price sign in front of the station is just a good daily reminder that we've been had.

(A good video, if you don't mind the ad - which you can skip)
Gas Prices Explained - YouTube


no friggin' kidding. it takes me roughly 5 hours to fell, buck, split and stack a cord of wood. the splitting is a getting a little bit faster because i bought i used huskee hydro. i do it because i enjoy it, and i enjoy being outside.

even so, at $100/cord delivered for red oak, i'd just pay the man.

If somebody offered me $100 for a cord of oak... I believe I would deliver it. I would deliver it in a big pile, with them buried in the middle of it Salem style, and then douse them with gas and toss 'em a light. 'Course that's just me, and it's been said more than once (teachers, parents, police, doctors, and all sorts of other quacks) that I have some sort of personality disorder, but I do get stuff done, and nobody ever offered me a hundred bucks for a cord of oak. ;)
 
Weekend warrior firewood sellers don't make a true profit. Moving a pickup load of wood for beer money is more of a hobby, something to keep the missus from ragging about how she ain't got that nice dress she saw in the mall last week.

Where I lived in VA there was an old joke... everyone who has a truck is selling firewood, and everybody and his Aunt Tilly has a truck.

There was truth to it. What was once a profitable business where everyone worked together had split into two camps. There were the old-school guys who'd been in the biz all their lives trying to compete with kids who were buying truckloads of splits from local farmers and reselling it in the city dirt-cheap. Much of it was off the stump green, pawned off as seasoned.

It got to where city ordinances were passed to keep firewood peddlers out of the subdivisions. If you were driving a truckload of firewood and a local cop or eager beaver neighborhood watch saw yas, you got pulled over and asked exactly who ordered the wood and where they lived.

Things were bad for awhile... you'd wake up in the morning to flattened tires, drained oil pans... equipment sabotaged overnight. The boneheads were dumping brush at the side of the road and calling the cops (anonymously) to blame it on competitors. The town passed a "brush law", saying any tree brush from outside the county couldn't be driven through. Ridiculous, to be sure. But it served to demonstrate just how desperate the whole situation had become.

It was just too much work and worry for too little money. The old-timers got into tree work instead.
 
Here is a great one from around here! I see this crap all the time.

Unsplit (Poplar?) Firewood

It looks a lot like Elm,but you're right,people think its worth more then it is.I buy tools and other things through the bidding process at government sites.I have noticed more and more logs coming up for bid.I also see once in awhile large piles of pallets.Some sell some don't.
 
I buy tools and other things through the bidding process at government sites.I have noticed more and more logs coming up for bid.I also see once in awhile large piles of pallets.Some sell some don't.

I never understood why folks would pay for pallets. I usually pick up 8 or 10 free ones from the local lumber monger when I need them. They have to pay to dispose of them otherwise.

https://ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=11513

I suppose they're probably worth 10 for a buck if you really needed them.
(Note to Admin - the owners of the attached link do not compete with AS sponsors.)
 
I never understood why folks would pay for pallets. I usually pick up 8 or 10 free ones from the local lumber monger when I need them. They have to pay to dispose of them otherwise.

https://ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=11513

I suppose they're probably worth 10 for a buck if you really needed them.
(Note to Admin - the owners of the attached link do not compete with AS sponsors.)

Sometimes they can be hard to come by. It's pretty hit or miss around here. When I needed some, I couldn't find any, but now that I have enough, they are all over the place. :hmm3grin2orange:
 
Here is a great one from around here! I see this crap all the time.

Unsplit (Poplar?) Firewood

I'm sorry... when did poplar get reclassed as "firewood"? You heat with it by standing in front of the stove feeding tree length logs continuously or soak them in kerosene?

Weekend warrior firewood sellers don't make a true profit. Moving a pickup load of wood for beer money is more of a hobby, something to keep the missus from ragging about how she ain't got that nice dress she saw in the mall last week.

Where I lived in VA there was an old joke... everyone who has a truck is selling firewood, and everybody and his Aunt Tilly has a truck.

There was truth to it. What was once a profitable business where everyone worked together had split into two camps. There were the old-school guys who'd been in the biz all their lives trying to compete with kids who were buying truckloads of splits from local farmers and reselling it in the city dirt-cheap. Much of it was off the stump green, pawned off as seasoned.

It got to where city ordinances were passed to keep firewood peddlers out of the subdivisions. If you were driving a truckload of firewood and a local cop or eager beaver neighborhood watch saw yas, you got pulled over and asked exactly who ordered the wood and where they lived.

Things were bad for awhile... you'd wake up in the morning to flattened tires, drained oil pans... equipment sabotaged overnight. The boneheads were dumping brush at the side of the road and calling the cops (anonymously) to blame it on competitors. The town passed a "brush law", saying any tree brush from outside the county couldn't be driven through. Ridiculous, to be sure. But it served to demonstrate just how desperate the whole situation had become.

It was just too much work and worry for too little money. The old-timers got into tree work instead.

That's just straight nuts! Personally, that's the kind of endemic stupid that makes me worry that there's something beside fluoride in the water rotting their brains.

We have some stand up dealers around who have a loyal clientele that they've usually gathered from the victims of the hit and run types. Having not been involved, but knowing many around me that buy wood, I was surprised each year by the number who were off looking for a new supplier each season 'cuz their last year's supplier was gone. These are people of reasonable means that are used to paying at least $200 a cord for mixed hardwoods, often short seasoned if at all. There are still opportunities out there. Forgot who, I think it was Haveawoody who was including a re-order form with each delivery along with his storage pallet and some kindling. I think that is a great idea since it also allows the customer to store and pull wood to burn without having to handle it twice themselves. Also contributes to customer loyalty. It's all about adding value to your brand to set you apart from the competition.

I don't wanna clean anybody's chimney but my own, but people are freakin' lazy as crap, so why not offer some kind of co-op with a sweep, or start doin' them to supplement the wood?. I've replaced a half dozen caps in my block, and repointed four chimneys just 'cuz the folks needed it done and they knew me (or in spite of them knowing me), but I wasn't even looking for the work - I've been tryin' to stay retired. Maybe a free cleaning with every (X) number of cords. Chrisesakes even the convenience stores are pushing customer loyalty plans these days. Partner with the company doing their landscaping and lawn care. I used to get wood and tree work from those guys all of the time, when they'd get into thinkin' that they could handle anything that had a two stroke engine involved, and again - I wasn't looking for the work, they just needed somebody that they knew who would get it done and not screw everything up. I had equipment resources from my other businesses that most don't have, but the idea is still the same. Just posting an ad on CL and waitin' for the phone to ring sounds like a great way to starve. Also bein' the cjeapest guy in town a business model does not make, it's all about sellin' value, not firewood. If you believe that business is all about having the lowest price, than I would suggest that you try and explain IBM and Apple, who represent the highest end of their prospective markets. I won't buy any power tools but Festool these days (especially since B&D bought and destroyed Porter Cable). They are one of the most expensive out there, and while I'm comfortable, it's only 'cuz I'm careful. Most good customers will pay for quality, and the ones that can't or won't... well let Fred and Lamont take care of them.

Maybe try educating the retarded. Teach and SHOW them the difference between properly seasoned and not. Guarantee a certain moisture level (Sanford and Son ain't gonna even know where to buy a moisture meter, much less what it does). Get some all-weather stickers and put them on people's wood rack when you deliver. Do email or direct mail to keep in touch. Explain how wet wood steals all of their supposed heat and cruds up their chimney faster. Maybe scare the crap out of 'em with pics or a video of a raging chimney fire that ate a house. Use a little psych on 'em, and then add some peer pressure. Try the old Home Improvement "Model Home" come on (assuming it's not illegal in your area). Offer a neighborhood association discount for a bulk buy. Everybody on Mockingbird Lane gets a special buy if the total order reaches 10 or 20 or whatever makes you the most money, number of cords. Buy a wood working branding iron and brand a couple dozen sticks in each cord. You'll have people thinkin' you build their firewood in a factory. If your wood processing and handling logistics can support it, maybe pressure wash muddy logs before processing. They sell little fire starting bundles of crap at the 7-11's here for $12-15 'cuz they look clean and neat. Offer custom lengths, a lot of old folks might have room for 18" sticks, but find 12" worth payin' a little more for so they don't break a hip.

One of my eight hundred past lives was consulting/mentoring small businesses - everything from Sub Shops to Ice Carving, Plumbing to "Gentleman's Clubs", and the core elements are always the same.
There are only a handful of ways to increase revenue; raise your prices, increase the number of customers who buy from you, increase the frequency with which they buy, or the very best - which is increase your average sale. Makes sense... better profit as well when you deliver two cord instead of just one to the same address at the same time. Maybe expand on that and try a blitz on a neighborhood where you see a lot of smokin' chimney's in the fall, and if not this year, catch'em next year. If you're haulin' more wood into the same area you're gonna realize some economy of scale, so maybe you can afford a little price drop there. Obviously not all inclusive, but ya get the gist.

The most common problem that I've witnessed with the majority of small business owners is simply this. They are usually really good at doing the work, and more often than not making some money. They just don't know what to do from there. How do I play keep away from the gov't, how do I raise sales, how should I best buy/replace/upgrade my equipment and when. All a very common scenario. Of course then there's the one who is beyond help - the guy who's making some money... so far. You usually can't help these cats 'cuz the fact that they have a wad of cash in their pocket tells them that they are already doing everything right. I usually wait to see them when their equipment goes up for sale at the auction.

Sounds like your old timers diversification did the trick. I'm kind'a surprised at the number of tree companies that still don't market firewood or wood products around here. Vertical integration and diversification is what built Standard Oil and Ford Motors. Hell, if ya get big enough maybe tell the DOE you're involved in a "Green" alternative fuels program and ask for a couple 40 or 50 million in grants.
 
I never understood why folks would pay for pallets. I usually pick up 8 or 10 free ones from the local lumber monger when I need them. They have to pay to dispose of them otherwise.

https://ibid.illinois.gov/item.php?id=11513

I suppose they're probably worth 10 for a buck if you really needed them.
(Note to Admin - the owners of the attached link do not compete with AS sponsors.)


I agree with you I have no problem getting them,for storing items on.As far as burning them,its almost not worth cleaning them of metal to burn them.

We have a Guy down the road that supplies pallets for local mills,he will usually take all you can bring in to reuse them.

I have a good friend that is really a good carpenter.He had permission to take some pallets from the plant that brick came in on, and made kitchen cupboards. I know you would think they would not be nice,but he dried that oak that the pallets were made from and planed them down.They turned out great.You would never know where they came from.

Where I worked some pallets actually had a deposit on them.If they were not sent back the company had to pay.

Here is some more pallets on a government site:http://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=Main.Item&itemid=599&acctid=923

Here is some logs on another auction:

http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/auction/view?auc=774811

Who said those Walnut logs are not worth anything.This auction still has 3 days left.My word thats a lot for green walnut in that condition.
 
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