is there a way to "practice" kickback??

[gemniii]

Here are a couple of video's that help to explain the forces involved. Stand to the left side of the saw, keep your left elbow locked if you can, and keep your fingers wrapped completely around the handlebar, dont cut with the tip etc, are all things you can do to help lessen the chances. Wear a helmet and chaps, dont cut alone, dont cut when your tired are also best practices. Finally, dont be afraid to say it looks like too much for you to handle if you think it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37xodIuufaQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2arMD1ITJ4

Beat me to it with the links - aren't the SEARCH and GOODLE features of the internet GREAT!!

And to those naysayers about "don't practice kickback". I believe you should always practice what you can under controlled safe conditions, so when something happens you can quickly regain control.

An excellent example is driving on ice. Untold numbers of accidents occur around the South, because of limited experience. I grew up and drove on frozen lakes and ponds. I've experienced 3 panic situations with other drivers swerving in front of me on slippery roads where I've gone into skids, had the passengers so scared they stained their pants. A simple two flips of the wheel and I was fine.
I used to take my kids to local iced over parking lots, until the cops started cracking down.

Bottom line - practice for the unexpected. Like everyone that operates a chainsaw should be able to do first aid.

 

[sawbid]

:agree2: nicely put

 

[gallegosmike]

Bottom line - practice for the unexpected. Like everyone that operates a chainsaw should be able to do first aid.

Funny thing you said about first aid. All the "old hand" firewood cutters that I cut with think I am nuts for taking a nicely stocked first aid kit with me!

Anyone that runs a saw in the bush should carry a first aid kit and quikclot gauze pads.

My .02

Mike

 

[hybridkarpower]

Practice for the unexpected is wise, but to a certain extent. Novice chainsaw user should have someone demonstrate how to handle K/B before any "trial & error" approach is taken.

Practice driving on ice is a poor & simple minded analogy because you most likely will have just a fender bender if you have an accident, as I've seen in EVOC training. Unless you're the suicidal type with a lead foot.

But practice K/B with a running chainsaw ? You could be making a trip to ER with lacerations or worse if you have an accident.

Would you let your teenager who is a first time shooter pick-up a loaded gun & practice with its trigger, safety, decocker & mag release etc without your presence ? (assuming you are fluent with firearm safety). Perhaps the teenager can fire a few rounds too so he/she can learn to manage recoil by themselves ??

As far as practicing in controled enviroment you still have variables. Can you accurately estimate how intense the kick back will be when it happens ? Can you also predict how your chaps, gloves etc will hold up if struck by a running chain w/ motor running at 13,500 rpm ? All these variables need to be taken into consideration before you "practice".

Like TreeCo said, use proper chainsaw technique.

It is not as simple as practice driving a car on ice where a metal case shelters you. You are the softest thing out in the woods with a running chainsaw, so think it thru carefully.

While you're at it, read up a little on "Push Back" & "Pull In" forces as well. All 3 are reactive forces you could encounter operating a chain saw.

Be safe

 

[mweba]

:agree2: Always wrap your thumb around the top handle, that way when a kick back does occur your hand won't slip off the handle, that's when you can have the saw flip all the way back and slice your head or shoulder open, especially on a saw without a working chain brake.
A kick back will happen soon enough, without trying to have one, especially when attempting plunge cuts.
I have a buddy with a gruesome injury from a kick back, it happened nearly 20 years ago, a good portion of the muscle from his left forearm is missing from a missing/broken chain brake handle!

yup and break your thumb before it hits you in the face. Best practice is precaution with safe practices. A thumb will not stop a real kickback.

 

[slowp]

Gary is right. You don't need to practice it. Just practice correct handling techniques, thumb curled around bar, no one handed saw running, and pay attention to what you are doing. That last part should be the first part.:deadhorse:

 

[rxe]

I have discovered a sure fire method for getting practice in kick back, this method also teaches you a bit about bar shape.

1) Read up on here about "Swedish Candles" - basically you bore out a block of wood from a round, and make a sort of candle thing. Cool.

2) Take a 260 with a narrow tip green bar. Do the plunge cuts, make the candle. You can feel the saw occasionally pushing against you, but nothing frightening.

3) Stick the 260 in the dirt by accident. Damn, all I've got left is a 460 running an 18" wide nose (yellow) bar.

4) Attempt to make another candle using the 460 - you'll find it kicks like a sodding mule, and the chain brake correctly triggers all the time. I'm really impressed with the brake, you feel the saw coming back, and snap, it's on.

Wear kevlar everything while doing something like this, and it will teach you a lot about the forces that could come back at you. If you're holding the saw firmly, it isn't a problem - but I can see if you're doing "one of those cuts where the saw is just dropping though the wood"....then it could come back in your face very fast....

 

[SawTroll]

kind of like practicing for Russian Roulette! Not really worth it.

Generally, yes - but I have been able to contain all the kick-backs I have got, way short of doing any damage!

The most common ones have been push-backs from the larger of my saws, bore-cutting.

But then I generally use smaller saws, with short bars!

 

[gallegosmike]

I'll have to talk to those guys at Oregon, LOL!

I believe I've heard 'reactionary force' from both OSHA and at a Stihl saw training class. At any rate we are almost on the same page.....but I'm still not in favor of practicing kickback.

I am also NOT for practicing kickback, but for demostrating it to a newbie under controled conditions. If you follow my directions to a "T" and run at half throttle. You will get some kickback to show what it is and how not to do it.

Mike

 

[GASoline71]

I dunno... I view "practicing" kickback like "practicing" shooting yourself in the foot.

Just ain't safe.

Gary

 

[sawbid]

What about calling it "understanding" kickback or "getting the felling" of kickback before it cuts my nose off?

1. Watch the tip, Watch the tip, Watch the tip...

2. Plunge cuts = unknown...meaning if you do a plunge cut (or other dangerous cuts) prepare yourself for the "unexpected".

3. I live by training myself for the "unexpected". I do understand that ALL predicaments cannot be trained for...but this is just me.

4. Do what you feel comfortable doing...and cross that line just a little with everything you do. If one stays in their comfort zone all the time it means one of two things: A) you'll never get better. or B) your already a "pro"...

Todd

 

[Moss Man]

Why? :monkey:

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

Kickback

I heard of kickback but hadn't experienced it until I got my Jonsereds 830. Runing 3/8 chain and 24" bar instead of the .325 with 12 and 16" bar gives a whole lot more kb.


I had tried to get the .325 chains to kickback by touching the tip of the bar to logs.

Then I started using the 830 with the 3/8 chain which is a whole different ballgame! Touch that tip to something and the tip is going to come up.

When I'm helping new drivers to learn to drive on ice, I take them to a snow/ice covered empty parking lot and let them feel what it's like to have a vehicle spinning out of control. Then when they feel the little slip while driving it's a familiar feeling and the have a better idea of what to do.

I had an uncle (who is no longer alive) who had a chainsaw kiss him in the face. The docs patched him up and with false teeth he could eat again. I still don't know how it happened, however, I did hear that he was walking with the saw with the chain running.

I would say that it's a good thing to see how much it takes for the bar to come up when you know it "might" happen. You should be more prepared when it happens.

 

[SawTroll]

....
4. Do what you feel comfortable doing...and cross that line just a little with everything you do. If one stays in their comfort zone all the time it means one of two things: A) you'll never get better. or B) your already a "pro"...

Todd

I once tried to make my 353 kick back on purpose to show my wife (probably in 2004), but it just refused to do it, with the 95VP chain that was on it!

She had used saws for a long time before that, but had never been told about kick-back before - then this failure......

 

[lawnmowertech37]

kickback very simple move

Just move arm back and forth then legs back and forth its called kickback also can kick back on the chair recliner with shoes off and take a break from a long days work

 

[cpr]

Like others have said, don't practice it. There's video of what it looks like. Wear PPE, always be firm in your grip, attentive to your cuts, and make darn sure where your tip is at all times. Lastly, use a SHARP chain, so that if all else fails, it'll cut in that bad situation rather than grab and pitch at you.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Practising KB would be much like practicing making a tree barberchair by placing a dutchman. It makes no sense to me.
John

 

[Tzed250]

.


To each his own. I have "practiced" kickback dozens of times. I like to feel the exact circumstances for a bar/chain combo. I also watch for the inertia chainbrake to be activated. If you don't know you can handle it, then don't do it.


.

 

[Guido Salvage]

One time may be all it takes to go from "practice" to severely injured or dead. There are simply too many variables for an untrained user to initiate such a potentially hazardous event.

If kickback could be controlled or played out exactly the same way each time I could see the benefit. I would liken it to a pilot using a flight simulator in order to train for emergencies in the sky.

The best way to train for kickback is to understand its causes and then avoid the types of activities that induce it. Follow the advice of others and look at the various videos that are available so you can see what occurs.

Remember to keep your work area free of debris, both feet on the ground, both hands firmly on the saw, do not cut above shoulder level, do not cut with the tip and avoid plunge cuts until your are experienced with the saw. Above all, wear PPE and if at all possible cut with an experienced saw operator who can provide guidance and tips and be there in case of an emergency.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I can't imagine that anybody has cut much without experiencing some degree of kickback at low RPM from time to time. Careless, foolish, or inexperienced digging the nose in to something at high RPM is what gets them hurt.