So, you're saying that not every car requires a foot on the brake to take it out of park, just like not every saw requires a finger on the trigger to set the choke? I think you're making my point for me.
Is this what Stihl's have come to?
- Thread starter Cliff R
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So, you're saying that not every car requires a foot on the brake to take it out of park, just like not every saw requires a finger on the trigger to set the choke? I think you're making my point for me.
SawTroll
Information Collector
My car dont, as it has a manual gear!
davido30093
ArboristSite Member
Not really
Just putting the facts straight.
Your last statement clears up the whole thread.
__________________
Just putting the facts straight.
Your last statement clears up the whole thread.
chopperfreak2k1
Addicted to ArboristSite
best post so far i think
ratman36
ArboristSite Operative
telling the truth about stihls usually does ruffle feathers of die hard stihl fans.
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
And that problem with the metal tang on the switch I had on my 036 that I started the thread about may seem stupid to some, but it is a real PITA to get set right after someone else had screwed it up. It was kinda gimpy from the get-go, saw was an auction find. The fix for mine seems to be a new gas tank, where the support for the tang is molded into, but after pricing a new one, I'll probably take it to Tom after the holidays to fix it... no such problem with my other Stihls.
I was hoping this thread had disappeared or gone completely into the "crapper" by now.
I've already FULLY accepted the fact that both myself and my Chemistry Professor next door neighbor are complete bumbling idiots because the little springy deal ended up on the wrong side of the switch a couple of times before we figured out the correct sequence of events in the starting process. As recomended by the Stihl followers, I sent him to look for his owners manual, must have been 2 months ago now, and he still hasn't come back with it....oh well?
I'll go back under my rock now, and I also promise to NEVER say anything negative about a Stihl chainsaw again in public Forum.
Rest assured guys, I'm well educated at this point, and this little problem will NEVER happen to me again, and even if it did, I'll never utter a single word about it!.....LOL.....Cliff
I've already FULLY accepted the fact that both myself and my Chemistry Professor next door neighbor are complete bumbling idiots because the little springy deal ended up on the wrong side of the switch a couple of times before we figured out the correct sequence of events in the starting process. As recomended by the Stihl followers, I sent him to look for his owners manual, must have been 2 months ago now, and he still hasn't come back with it....oh well?
I'll go back under my rock now, and I also promise to NEVER say anything negative about a Stihl chainsaw again in public Forum.
Rest assured guys, I'm well educated at this point, and this little problem will NEVER happen to me again, and even if it did, I'll never utter a single word about it!.....LOL.....Cliff
Hooooly Cow!
I started reading this, then I started laughing, then I got bored with it and jumped to the last page... y'all still talking about the control levers on Stihl saws... unbelievable!
Cliff R-
If you have a preference, if you like one brand over any other... no problem, who here doesn’t to a lesser or greater degree? I think you went wrong by using the “design flaw” argument though.
First let me say that I've owned and used many different saw brands and I prefer the Stihl Master Control Switch. Why? Because I NEVER have to look down at the saw to operate it, grasping the handle and/or throttle is a reference point for the hand, thumb is positioned perfectly even with heavy gloves. The positive stops (unless you force it) allow setting exactly where you want it (never having to look down at the saw). On - Off - Choke - Half-Choke - Idle - Fast-Idle - Kill - all done while never looking at the controls. Actually I think it's a rather good design, and if they tried to reinforce it to make it idiot proof (so you couldn't force it past the stops, bending springs, etc.) it wouldn't operate with the same (relatively) light thumb pressure, especially the up-flip.
1) Grab handle, press throttle, push down with thumb - full choke
2) Grab handle, press throttle, push down with thumb, release throttle, flip up with thumb - half-choke with fast-idle (blip throttle and you're at run position)
3) Grab handle, do not press throttle, push down with thumb - run position
4) Saw running with hand on handle, flip up with thumb - saw kills (I really like the ability to "KILL" the saw with heavy gloves while never compromising my hold/control of the saw or taking my eyes off the bar/work and it can be done in a split second even at full throttle)
All controls, on anything, are a compromise... make it idiot proof and it won’t convenient, make it too robust and it won’t be quick and easy, make it with too many parts and it’s prone to breakage, etc, etc., etc. The argument that someone (homeowner or professional) shouldn’t have to read the manual to use the saw, or clean the air filter, and that makes the “control” a design flaw is ridiculous. If something gets mucked-up because the user didn’t take the time to learn, and/or forces something... Well that ain’t a design flaw; it’s just plain operator error, period. C’mon, we’re talking about a power tool capable of removing your leg in a blink-of-an-eye... anyone that doesn’t take the time to learn how to properly manipulate controls and maintain the tool before using it is a fool (homeowner or professional), but that’s just my opinion I guess. I can tell you that in over thirty years of use I’ve never managed to muck-up the control lever(s), knob(s), or switch(s) on any saw, including the Stihl flavor.
This whole thing reminds me of the chokes on autos. Back before fuel injection, or even automatic chokes, autos had manual chokes. One style required that you press the throttle while engaging the choke because the choke “control” didn’t have the leverage to overcome the throttle return spring; failure to press the throttle resulted in a stretched cable or bent choke plate. Another style used a less-powerful return spring and a leverage system that would also set the throttle with the choke; the dangerous draw back with the weaker spring was that the throttle would stick open if the carb/linkage got dirty or during icy conditions. Another style used the powerful spring and a complicated leverage system that was prone to break just when you needed it most; users learned to open the hood in extreme cold and “hand engage” it first start of the day. And yet another style just used a separate control to “set” the throttle; requiring close attention or the engine would hopelessly flood. Everyone had their preference, and everyone thought the others were flawed in some way - they were unable to see the “flaw(s)” in the system they preferred. AND they all found the new-fangled, carb mounted, automatic choke systems to be a answer to a problem that didn’t exist - many never got the “hang” of “setting” the automatic choke, calling it a “design flaw” and just retrofitted their autos with manual chokes. It never occurred to them that they just weren’t taking the time to properly learn how to use the new system(s).
If you don’t like the “control” system on a particular brand of saw that’s fine - go with what you prefer. But if you muck-up the “control” because you did something to it beyond its design limit... well, that just flat ain’t a “design flaw”; you just plain screwed-up. Same goes for having to put the choke lever down before removing the air filter cover - no different than having to put your 4x4 in neutral before shifting into low-range... It-is-what-it-is.
I started reading this, then I started laughing, then I got bored with it and jumped to the last page... y'all still talking about the control levers on Stihl saws... unbelievable!
Cliff R-
If you have a preference, if you like one brand over any other... no problem, who here doesn’t to a lesser or greater degree? I think you went wrong by using the “design flaw” argument though.
First let me say that I've owned and used many different saw brands and I prefer the Stihl Master Control Switch. Why? Because I NEVER have to look down at the saw to operate it, grasping the handle and/or throttle is a reference point for the hand, thumb is positioned perfectly even with heavy gloves. The positive stops (unless you force it) allow setting exactly where you want it (never having to look down at the saw). On - Off - Choke - Half-Choke - Idle - Fast-Idle - Kill - all done while never looking at the controls. Actually I think it's a rather good design, and if they tried to reinforce it to make it idiot proof (so you couldn't force it past the stops, bending springs, etc.) it wouldn't operate with the same (relatively) light thumb pressure, especially the up-flip.
1) Grab handle, press throttle, push down with thumb - full choke
2) Grab handle, press throttle, push down with thumb, release throttle, flip up with thumb - half-choke with fast-idle (blip throttle and you're at run position)
3) Grab handle, do not press throttle, push down with thumb - run position
4) Saw running with hand on handle, flip up with thumb - saw kills (I really like the ability to "KILL" the saw with heavy gloves while never compromising my hold/control of the saw or taking my eyes off the bar/work and it can be done in a split second even at full throttle)
All controls, on anything, are a compromise... make it idiot proof and it won’t convenient, make it too robust and it won’t be quick and easy, make it with too many parts and it’s prone to breakage, etc, etc., etc. The argument that someone (homeowner or professional) shouldn’t have to read the manual to use the saw, or clean the air filter, and that makes the “control” a design flaw is ridiculous. If something gets mucked-up because the user didn’t take the time to learn, and/or forces something... Well that ain’t a design flaw; it’s just plain operator error, period. C’mon, we’re talking about a power tool capable of removing your leg in a blink-of-an-eye... anyone that doesn’t take the time to learn how to properly manipulate controls and maintain the tool before using it is a fool (homeowner or professional), but that’s just my opinion I guess. I can tell you that in over thirty years of use I’ve never managed to muck-up the control lever(s), knob(s), or switch(s) on any saw, including the Stihl flavor.
This whole thing reminds me of the chokes on autos. Back before fuel injection, or even automatic chokes, autos had manual chokes. One style required that you press the throttle while engaging the choke because the choke “control” didn’t have the leverage to overcome the throttle return spring; failure to press the throttle resulted in a stretched cable or bent choke plate. Another style used a less-powerful return spring and a leverage system that would also set the throttle with the choke; the dangerous draw back with the weaker spring was that the throttle would stick open if the carb/linkage got dirty or during icy conditions. Another style used the powerful spring and a complicated leverage system that was prone to break just when you needed it most; users learned to open the hood in extreme cold and “hand engage” it first start of the day. And yet another style just used a separate control to “set” the throttle; requiring close attention or the engine would hopelessly flood. Everyone had their preference, and everyone thought the others were flawed in some way - they were unable to see the “flaw(s)” in the system they preferred. AND they all found the new-fangled, carb mounted, automatic choke systems to be a answer to a problem that didn’t exist - many never got the “hang” of “setting” the automatic choke, calling it a “design flaw” and just retrofitted their autos with manual chokes. It never occurred to them that they just weren’t taking the time to properly learn how to use the new system(s).
If you don’t like the “control” system on a particular brand of saw that’s fine - go with what you prefer. But if you muck-up the “control” because you did something to it beyond its design limit... well, that just flat ain’t a “design flaw”; you just plain screwed-up. Same goes for having to put the choke lever down before removing the air filter cover - no different than having to put your 4x4 in neutral before shifting into low-range... It-is-what-it-is.
IMO, the 026 and 260 version of the MCL is particularly badly designed. I put a brand-new spring in my dad's ms260 and it wouldn't work right. The spring was making the lever bind up; I had to bend it in to get it to move... then bend it back again to get it to kill the engine right.
IMO -- 026's (and probably the 036) have a particularly bad MCL design. I have fiddled a little with other models, older and newer, and they all seem more robust.
IMO -- 026's (and probably the 036) have a particularly bad MCL design. I have fiddled a little with other models, older and newer, and they all seem more robust.
"Cliff R-
If you have a preference, if you like one brand over any other... no problem, who here doesn’t to a lesser or greater degree? I think you went wrong by using the “design flaw” argument though."
+1
No preference here, I like whatever I'm using that works like it's supposed to. Does anyone find it interesting that after 30 years of running everything out there, that my line-up looks like it does?
I agree, I agree, now let's please get on with our lives. Can't say it enough, it can not possibly be a design flaw, or anything fudamentally wrong with that saw.
You've just got to make damned sure you don't shove the choke fully on without depressing the throttle first, or the spring ends up on the wrong side of the lever.
It's not a big deal, and now that we've covered the topic, and beat it to death, everyone knows I'm an idiot for even thinking this could be any sort of a basic problem with the equipment.
I fully admit, it's a problem with the operator....now back to work.....BTW....
....Cliff
If you have a preference, if you like one brand over any other... no problem, who here doesn’t to a lesser or greater degree? I think you went wrong by using the “design flaw” argument though."
+1
No preference here, I like whatever I'm using that works like it's supposed to. Does anyone find it interesting that after 30 years of running everything out there, that my line-up looks like it does?
I agree, I agree, now let's please get on with our lives. Can't say it enough, it can not possibly be a design flaw, or anything fudamentally wrong with that saw.
You've just got to make damned sure you don't shove the choke fully on without depressing the throttle first, or the spring ends up on the wrong side of the lever.
It's not a big deal, and now that we've covered the topic, and beat it to death, everyone knows I'm an idiot for even thinking this could be any sort of a basic problem with the equipment.
I fully admit, it's a problem with the operator....now back to work.....BTW....
....Cliff
:deadhorse: 
CentaurG2
Addicted to ArboristSite
Go Team Stihl!
I'm not a Stihl man but i do have a MS-250, i don't use it much myself but my boy cuts with it all the time, we've never had any trouble with it other than it don't like heavy bar oil in the winter.
I did open up the muffler some and adjusted the carb, makes a big difference!
I did open up the muffler some and adjusted the carb, makes a big difference!
Not to pile on but wooo hhoo DOG PILE. The Stihl master control lever is an easy simple to operate. 066, 064, 044, 460, 260 pro never a glitch.3000 hrs on the 044, at least 1500 on the 066. Never had a problem with my 372xpw either but I like the Stihl MCL. Stihl Rocks.:hmm3grin2orange:
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I disagree with this statement. If you don't depress the throttle, the MCL should stop at "ON".
IMO, getting the spring on the wrong side of the lever happens when you fiddle with the MCL with the air filter cover off...
I like the combo switch, except when it gets misaligned a bit, and does not shut off the saw immediately. I have one 026 that does that, but a bit of jiggling shuts it off. It would be simpler to have a separate choke and kill switch, I suppose.
Seems they work great until you remove it for servicing. Then the spring is never the same.
Not sure this thread is worth 15 pages, though. We should be out cutting firewood instead of sitting inside on the puter.
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