Lifespan of a saw engine

[rarefish383]

Yeah my 661 usually lasts for 40 to 45 minutes per tank of fuel...??

I almost did that for one day. We had a big lot job, we cleared dozens of 30+ inch Poplars. My Dad begged the owners to let him take them to a mill. They insisted they wanted the firewood. He dropped three of us off in the morning. Two with Homelite Super 1050’s, and a helper/fueled. When we thought we were running out of fuel we would wave and the helper would come fuel the saws up. It was easy, the caps for gas and oil are on top. We didn’t shut the saws off till lunch, and then quitting time. Sometime after lunch the fingers on my left hand were getting numb, so I rested my palm on the top handle, and wiggled my fingers, saw still cutting. The tip hit a log on the other side and kicked back, cutting three fingers. I was so afraid my Dad would find out I did something so stupid, I wrapped them up in my snot rag and never told him.
This thread is so old, I may have told this story in it years ago.

I was quoting Rogue from back in 2020.

 

[rogue60]

I'm not saying it's not possible for a saw to reach 2000 plus hr it just takes longer than some claim.
To reach over 2000hrs actual run time not idling in one year one would have to run a saw WOT for 6hrs non stop per day for 350 days a year who does that?

I work 8hrs a day doesn't mean my saw gets 8hrs run time a day yet some guys add hrs up on saws like this.. lol

 

[sean donato]

I'm not saying it's not possible for a saw to reach 2000 plus hr it just takes longer than some claim.
To reach over 2000hrs actual run time not idling in one year one would have to run a saw WOT for 6hrs non stop per day for 350 days a year who does that?

I work 8hrs a day doesn't mean my saw gets 8hrs run time a day yet some guys add hrs up on saws like this.. lol

I doubt even in professional use most will ever see 2k hours. My logging buddy is usually a one man show, he's been paying for hauling the last year or so vs doing most of it himself. So he's been cutting more, saws still last him about 2 years before they start wearing out a few he's kept running for longer and a few didn't make it to 2 years. I suppose we could take one of his early auto tune saws into a dealer and pay to get the hours read off it, but I just don't see the point. The new saws last him just as long, if not a little longer then his older saws.

 

[Hermio]

A Poulan Wild Thing might last 100 operating hours. A Stihl professional saw will last 2000 hours. Note that the Stihl saw also costs four times as much but lasts 20 times longer. Something to think about...

2000 is 19 times longer than 100, not 20 times longer. Think about it.

 

[bwalker]

I doubt even in professional use most will ever see 2k hours. My logging buddy is usually a one man show, he's been paying for hauling the last year or so vs doing most of it himself. So he's been cutting more, saws still last him about 2 years before they start wearing out a few he's kept running for longer and a few didn't make it to 2 years. I suppose we could take one of his early auto tune saws into a dealer and pay to get the hours read off it, but I just don't see the point. The new saws last him just as long, if not a little longer then his older saws.

So in my expiereance logging was at about a year of cutting they started to get tired. Give or take. Re ring and they were good to go for another year. At the two year mark it was time for a new saw and the old one was relegated to back up duty.

 

[bwalker]

I'm not saying it's not possible for a saw to reach 2000 plus hr it just takes longer than some claim.
To reach over 2000hrs actual run time not idling in one year one would have to run a saw WOT for 6hrs non stop per day for 350 days a year who does that?

I work 8hrs a day doesn't mean my saw gets 8hrs run time a day yet some guys add hrs up on saws like this.. lol

Yes. Walking in to a strip, walking around the strip through the course of a day, fueling, etc.
Mayne if you bucked on a landing only coukd you ran a saw 6 hours straight in a work day.

 

[sean donato]

So in my expiereance logging was at about a year of cutting they started to get tired. Give or take. Re ring and they were good to go for another year. At the two year mark it was time for a new saw and the old one was relegated to back up duty.

probably close time wise what you cut in a year my buddy does in 2. He recently said he's like 6-8 loads a week he doesn't have someone hauling for him.

 

[bwalker]

probably close time wise what you cut in a year my buddy does in 2. He recently said he's like 6-8 loads a week he doesn't have someone hauling for him.

For a one man show that's not bad production if you include hauling.
I never hauled my own logs.

 

[rarefish383]

I'm not saying it's not possible for a saw to reach 2000 plus hr it just takes longer than some claim.
To reach over 2000hrs actual run time not idling in one year one would have to run a saw WOT for 6hrs non stop per day for 350 days a year who does that?

I work 8hrs a day doesn't mean my saw gets 8hrs run time a day yet some guys add hrs up on saws like this.. lol

Unless they are trying to sell it, then it’s a low hour pampered saw. I’ve bought some really nice BIG saws in great shape because the workers hated to use them. They would sit on the trucks for weeks and never get used, then pulled out to flush a big stump, and back on the truck it goes.

 

[bwalker]

Unless they are trying to sell it, then it’s a low hour pampered saw. I’ve bought some really nice BIG saws in great shape because the workers hated to use them. They would sit on the trucks for weeks and never get used, then pulled out to flush a big stump, and back on the truck it goes.

The uses for a big saw are few and far between.

 

[Sidecarflip]

My 40+ year old 028 is still running fine, though it will probably need new crank seals this year and possibly a new fuel and impulse hose. I have no idea how many hours is on it but it started life being used as my go to saw when I owned and operated my own tree care outfit back in Northern Ohio many years ago and was always run on pre mix Stihl oil and regular gas but is now on canned gas (Red Armor 50-1) so I'd say any good saw will last a good long time if maintained correctly and provided with the correct oil to gas mixture. I did mod the muffler and I have cleaned the spark screen a few times but not lately because the Red Armor don't make a lot of carbon in the exhaust tract anyway.

I fully expect it to outlive me actually.

 

[Chucksta]

So, let me say this about that.. And, let the flames begin. AFAIK, one of the main differences between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke is that a 4 stroke bathes it's internal components in "used " oil, as soon as it's been run once. After that, the oil becomes increasingly abrasive, until the next scheduled oil change comes increasingly closer, then the process starts again.. 2 stroke, on the other hand, is a constant flow of fresh lubrication. Theoretically, pistons and rings do not touch the walls of the cylinder, they are kept away from contact, by a microscopic layer of oil ( lubricant).
There's been infinite threads about " what's the best oil".. And .. Darn.. what a @%ING contest about personal opinions and technical specifications of various manufacturers oil formulation that that generates.
Sure.. there's a difference between 2 stroke for a chain saw, and an outboard 2 stroke engine. AFAIK, it has to do with cylinder temperature ( water cooled vs air cooled).
I've also read about the various differences between the molecule chains that are different from oil to oil. What burns in the combustion chamber, and what gets left on the internals.

So, at the end of the day.. chain saw lifespan seems to me, to be a matter of lubrication.. 32 to 1.. 40 to 1.. 50 to 1.. ( assuming properly tuned for the ratio. )

Too rich an oil ratio? What's the worst that's gonna happen? A bit of smoke? Foul a plug? Tune around it? How much is a re-build? Especially compared to a new plug every now and then?

 

[sean donato]

Oil in a 4 stroke crankcase doesn't get more and more abrasive given everything is working properly in the engine and filtration is adequate. Usually you're replacing it because of acidity/ the additives package is used up. It also doesn't (typically) see the extreme temps a 2 stroke would. I've seen enough oil analysis reports over the years to know 90% of oils are changed well before their useful life has been met.
Liquid cooled further separates the similarities as does talking about other engines that doesn't use a wasted lube oil system. Too different in design and operation for a meanful comparison to be made, or conclusions about very different oils, in very different uses.

 

[Chucksta]

Insiteful (sp?) response.. My thought was more thought out about non filtered 4 stroke applications. A typical lawnmower has a splash oiling system, and no pump or filter. As such, it runs in it's own crud until the next change. A pressurized oiling system with a dedicated filter is a different dog. Usually, that happens when a 4 stroke engine is 20 H.P. or more. AKAIK, most smaller 4 strokes are splash lubed.
Speaking of "additive packages".. One of the scariest things that I've seen, is the "pre-charged" oil filter.. You don't change the oil.. You just unscrew the filter, and slap the new one in.. Basically, a partial oil change , with extra additives.. WTF??
Briggs has a new series of mowers under the Brand Name "Quantum".. The manual states that oil changes aren't necessary. Just check t oil, and if it's low, just add some. Wow.. Briggs assumes that as the unit starts to burn oil, that you'll add the necessary additives to keep it going.. And, by the time that it dies, it'll be 10 or more years, and you'll be ready for a new one. Planned obsolescence.. Consumer abuse..

 

[Sidecarflip]

Guess that is why I own a diesel lawnmower.

 

[Chucksta]

Guess that is why I own a diesel lawnmower.

LMFAO..

 

[sean donato]

Insiteful (sp?) response.. My thought was more thought out about non filtered 4 stroke applications. A typical lawnmower has a splash oiling system, and no pump or filter. As such, it runs in it's own crud until the next change. A pressurized oiling system with a dedicated filter is a different dog. Usually, that happens when a 4 stroke engine is 20 H.P. or more. AKAIK, most smaller 4 strokes are splash lubed.
Speaking of "additive packages".. One of the scariest things that I've seen, is the "pre-charged" oil filter.. You don't change the oil.. You just unscrew the filter, and slap the new one in.. Basically, a partial oil change , with extra additives.. WTF??
Briggs has a new series of mowers under the Brand Name "Quantum".. The manual states that oil changes aren't necessary. Just check t oil, and if it's low, just add some. Wow.. Briggs assumes that as the unit starts to burn oil, that you'll add the necessary additives to keep it going.. And, by the time that it dies, it'll be 10 or more years, and you'll be ready for a new one. Planned obsolescence.. Consumer abuse..

If you're running the correct oil in a splash lube engine (few do.) The "solids" will separate out and settle to the bottom of the pan. Besides that, different bearing designs. Pressure lube isn't just for 20+ hp engines and plenty of old 16-20 hp engines were splash lube.
The Briggs no oil change engine has been out for years now. Basically the thought is it burns enough oil so as replacment oil/ filter is added it's enough to keep it going. Not the greatest idea, but I guess for consumer use it will last long enough.