log splitter help

[hoot gibson]

hi guys , my electric log splitter his giving me fits. i ran it for a couple years with a 2 hp. moter , 1740 rpms . well it didnt seem to have the second stage of my 11 gpm pump working , but i put up with it . then it started kinda , jumping , like the pump is failing , but only on a load , like when the second stage is suposed to kick in , it jumps . kinda like thump, thump , thump . till i let up on the lever , well i finaly got tired of it and put a faster motor on it , thinking the 1740 rpm wasnt turning the pump fast enough to make it use the second stage . i put a 6.5 hp motor on it at 3450 rpms , well it seems to do the same thing , jumping when it gets on a hard push and stops.the fluid resivore is full. did i ruin my pump?? thanks , hoot

 

[Frank Boyer]

Check you pump output pressure.

 

[Mike Van]

hoot, it probably should have been turning 3450 all along, I don't think you killed it, but, maybe finished it off - I just changed one doing the same thing, it ate up the rubber spider in the Lovejoy coupling. Unless you know or know someone who does fix them, I'd just figure on buying a new pump. Leave the 3450 motor on it too. the 1700 is too slow for these pumps to get good performance out of them.

 

[hoot gibson]

well thanks guys , since i have to change the pump will there be any advantage to getting a 16 gpm pump instead of a 11 gpm pump? h

 

[Mike Van]

You'll gain a little faster cycle times, but - The 16 gpm needs 1" hose on the inlet, not 3/4". The 6.5 hp will probably run the 16 o.k., if it's a true 6.5 hp, not one that "develops 6.5 hp" Some motors that use developed hp as a rating will never do it continuously without burning up. Just to be safe, stay with the 11, 119.00 at Northern Tool would be my best answer.

 

[hoot gibson]

You'll gain a little faster cycle times, but - The 16 gpm needs 1" hose on the inlet, not 3/4". The 6.5 hp will probably run the 16 o.k., if it's a true 6.5 hp, not one that "develops 6.5 hp" Some motors that use developed hp as a rating will never do it continuously without burning up. Just to be safe, stay with the 11, 119.00 at Northern Tool would be my best answer.

thanks mike . thats what i'll do . h

 

[hoot gibson]

is there a sponsor on here that sells this pump . h

 

[mga]

just a wild guess, but two stage pumps have a valve that triggers the second stage when the pressure indicates it needs it. perhaps the valve isn't working?

what brand pump is it?

 

[Frank Boyer]

You may need a larger hydraulic tank for a 16 gpm pump. Hydraulic systems are a balanced design. In other words you have to increase all of the hose sizes, tank size, motor size, possibly beam size, and pump size. A small tank may work in cold weather, but will overheat in warm weather. The higher flow will generate a lot more heat.
Have you made sure that you do not have any restrictions in the hydraulic system? Clean filter? What pressure does the problem occur at?

 

[046]

I'll have a used 16 gpm haldex pump available hopefully soon.
in process of upgrading to 22gpm pump. 16gpm pump is in great condition, with aprox. 10 cords split.

still confirming with splitter mfg engineers, what I need to do conversion.

is there a sponsor on here that sells this pump . h

 

[goblin]

I've got a small electric splitter similar to yours. I would be interested in seeing before & after photos of, and hear the details of your 'upgrade'.

Thanks

 

[George G]

With a 2-stage pump. When the ram is moving foreword (or back) under no load, it will be using both stages of the pump. When the ram makes contact with the wood ,and starts to builds pressure . It will build the pressure up to the setting of the unloading valve(may be adjustable), the unloading valve will open, dumping one stage of the pump back to tank. One stage will continue to build psi up to pressure required to split the wood, or up to the setting of the relief valve( whichever is lower). If the pressure drops below the setting of the unloading valve, the valve will close and divert the oil from the unloaded stage of the pump back to the load. Again, when the pressure gets up to the unloading valve setting, the valve will open again and dump oil back to tank again. Thats what it sounds like is happening.
Causes (1) Unloading valve set too high, (2) pump is going bad, and (3) to much oil is blowing by the piston seals(rings) in the cylinder(ram).

 

[mga]

With a 2-stage pump. When the ram is moving foreword (or back) under no load, it will be using both stages of the pump. When the ram makes contact with the wood ,and starts to builds pressure . It will build the pressure up to the setting of the unloading valve(may be adjustable), the unloading valve will open, dumping one stage of the pump back to tank. One stage will continue to build psi up to pressure required to split the wood, or up to the setting of the relief valve( whichever is lower). If the pressure drops below the setting of the unloading valve, the valve will close and divert the oil from the unloaded stage of the pump back to the load. Again, when the pressure gets up to the unloading valve setting, the valve will open again and dump oil back to tank again. Thats what it sounds like is happening.
Causes (1) Unloading valve set too high, (2) pump is going bad, and (3) to much oil is blowing by the piston seals(rings) in the cylinder(ram).

good call, george.

a pressure gauge will tell all if installed.

 

[hoot gibson]

Haldex Hydraulic Pump — 11 GPM, 2-Stage, Model# 1001689
Item# 1012

that's what pump it is . i believe there is an adjustment on the side of the pump , but i was told it was all the way out already . should this be screwed in or out ,? the guy who told me the pump was set correct was also the guy who told me that i need a slow rpm motor . I'm thinking he was wrong on that , maybe he is wrong on the adjustment also . and i have no idea what and where i would or how to check the pressure . maybe i better buy a new pump . h

 

[triptester]

Normally when adjusting the pressure on relief valves you screw them in to increase pressure. If you are thinking of replacing the pump you have nothing to lose by trying to make adjustments. A pressure guage would be nice to have but it's not required,
Adjust the relief a few turns ,split a block of wood, if the motor does not slow adjust some more. If the pump is not worn out when the adjuster is tight the motor will stall when splitting a real tough block.

 

[George G]

Could'nt find that P/N (1001689) on the Haldex web site. But, I did find it on the Northern Tool web site. Not much info. It say's it requires a minimum of 5hp at 3600rpm, 1st stage 11gpm up to 650psi, unloading valve would open at that point, 2nd stage is 2.9gpm up to 2500psi.
Looking at the picture of that pump. It looks like two plugs on the side of the pump. One plug looks to be adjustable , the other (bigger one) don't look to be adjustable. I think the bigger one is the check valve that separates the two stages of the pump. If this check valve were to stick open, from rust or maybe something stuck under it. The pump would act the way you said. I think I would carefully pull that plug and check/clean.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200321051_200321051

 

[cabinman]

easy

Normally when adjusting the pressure on relief valves you screw them in to increase pressure. If you are thinking of replacing the pump you have nothing to lose by trying to make adjustments. A pressure guage would be nice to have but it's not required,
Adjust the relief a few turns ,split a block of wood, if the motor does not slow adjust some more. If the pump is not worn out when the adjuster is tight the motor will stall when splitting a real tough block.

Go easy on that adjustment screw, Not more than a half turn per test, Id spend the 20 bucks and put a gage on , And leave it,..Its nice to know what the system pressure is runnimg , OK,.... Ill admit,.. Iam a news junkie,..

 

[Mike Van]

Mike, wad-u mean a little faster? Wouldn't be 16/11 or 45% faster on the return stroke at least? What % of the total time per complete forward/reverse cycle do you think you need 6.5hp for average splitten?

If you do the math Dan it's more like 31.25% - And thats what I call "a little" - If it was over 50%, I'd call that "a lot"