Lots of Questions about chainsaw chains.

[OutDoorLiving2018]

I have been cutting wood for years on the farm. Yes mostly firewood and tree clearing for better fields etc... and have always had pretty good luck considering I am basically self taught. Fast forward to present time and I want to do more chainsaw milling because I have gotten back into wood working as well and lets face it, lumber isn't cheap but downed trees are everywhere. So with that being said I have a LOT of questions for everyone to jump in and answer if you will please? Not looking for which chain or guide bar is best, or which saw to use etc... because everyone has there favorites and good for you. I am sure some of these questions have already been asked but I am going cross eyed looking through posts. A lot of these came into question when I wanted to replace my chain and bar. Currently running a .325 .058 76DL chain on a 20" bar and it seemed my choices were extremely limited on replacement options. If a question has already been answered maybe just post the link? Thanks.

Here goes...
#1 Is there really a noticeable difference between 3/8 and .325 chains?
#2 Why in your opinion is one better than the other?
#3 Does the different number of drive links have any effect on the cutting, as in are they like a gear ratio for the chain?
#4 Can you change over to a different DL(drive link) by just changing the bar and chain combo OR does the clutch gear come in to play?
#5 If the clutch does come into play how do you know which clutch tooth bell is needed?
#6 Is cutting along the grain easier on the saw than against the grain, giving the reason the ripping chain looks less aggressive that a regular cutting chain?
#7 Read some where that a full chisel chain is usually sharpened with a round file basically making it a semi chisel chain so why order a full chisel?
#8 From what I have seen on here it looks like a 30* angle is about the best all around angle for the teeth (better on some woods, not as good on others but will get the job done) but then the talk about 10* and 0* back cuts or something like that? Explain.

I am sure I have forgotten a few that were running through my head earlier but this will get things started. Thanks ahead of time for any and all you help and years of doing it right wisdom.

 

[Brian72]

.325 is smaller so it requires less power from the saw. Works well on smaller saws but I never milled with it. The drive link always changes for bar length. Longer bar= more links. No need to change sprocket unless changing to a different gauge chain. Milling is much harder on a saw. Longer bars use more power to run.

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[Brian72]

I've also used regular and ripping chain with good results. Good sharpening is really a must when milling. There's some great info in these forums but it can seem overwhelming. Watch some videos, get some advice and start small. It's fairly simple and you'll learn plenty as you go along. Don't get too caught up in the technical specs in the beginning. Just enjoy it.

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[Little Al]

.325 is smaller so it requires less power from the saw. Works well on smaller saws but I never milled with it. The drive link always changes for bar length. Longer bar= more links. No need to change sprocket unless changing to a different gauge chain. Milling is much harder on a saw. Longer bars use more power to run.

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I think you've con fused gauge with pitch re the sprocket Pitch is the distance of 3 rivets divided by 2 so you end up 3/8 325 etc gauge is the thickness of the DL's so a 3/ 8 x 050/058/063 chain can be run on the same sprocket just requiring a bar to suit,the nose sprocket will normally accept all gauges so a 3/8 replaceable nose will take any gauge chain of that pitch

 

[Little Al]

I have been cutting wood for years on the farm. Yes mostly firewood and tree clearing for better fields etc... and have always had pretty good luck considering I am basically self taught. Fast forward to present time and I want to do more chainsaw milling because I have gotten back into wood working as well and lets face it, lumber isn't cheap but downed trees are everywhere. So with that being said I have a LOT of questions for everyone to jump in and answer if you will please? Not looking for which chain or guide bar is best, or which saw to use etc... because everyone has there favorites and good for you. I am sure some of these questions have already been asked but I am going cross eyed looking through posts. A lot of these came into question when I wanted to replace my chain and bar. Currently running a .325 .058 76DL chain on a 20" bar and it seemed my choices were extremely limited on replacement options. If a question has already been answered maybe just post the link? Thanks.

Here goes...
#1 Is there really a noticeable difference between 3/8 and .325 chains?
#2 Why in your opinion is one better than the other?
#3 Does the different number of drive links have any effect on the cutting, as in are they like a gear ratio for the chain?
#4 Can you change over to a different DL(drive link) by just changing the bar and chain combo OR does the clutch gear come in to play?
#5 If the clutch does come into play how do you know which clutch tooth bell is needed?
#6 Is cutting along the grain easier on the saw than against the grain, giving the reason the ripping chain looks less aggressive that a regular cutting chain?
#7 Read some where that a full chisel chain is usually sharpened with a round file basically making it a semi chisel chain so why order a full chisel?
#8 From what I have seen on here it looks like a 30* angle is about the best all around angle for the teeth (better on some woods, not as good on others but will get the job done) but then the talk about 10* and 0* back cuts or something like that? Explain.

I am sure I have forgotten a few that were running through my head earlier but this will get things started. Thanks ahead of time for any and all you help and years of doing it right wisdom.

#1 Depends on the saw & chain assuming whatever chain is sharp
#2 It isn't again depends on saw size /power & condition of chain
#3 No, But again longer bars =more DL's more load on the saw
#4 Yes, Clutch/sprocket not affected if same pitch is used
#5 N/A
#6 Depends on the angles on the cutters
#7 Duff info, a full chisel chain sharpened in the normal manner with a round file of the correct size is always a full chisel chain
#8 If you can get yourself the small Oregon handbook on bar /chain maintenance it explains what angles are best suited for what task.

 

[Philbert]

Welcome to A.S.!

Milling is very different from cross-cutting in a few, important ways:
- it is much harder on the saw to cut the end grain (ripping cuts) than cross-cutting (bucking);
- the saw power head is run continuously, for extended periods, unlike bucking cuts, which often requires a much more powerful saw;
- different chain angles are normally used for optimum performance.

#1 Is there really a noticeable difference between 3/8 and .325 chains?
#2 Why in your opinion is one better than the other?
#3 Does the different number of drive links have any effect on the cutting, as in are they like a gear ratio for the chain?
#4 Can you change over to a different DL(drive link) by just changing the bar and chain combo OR does the clutch gear come in to play?
#5 If the clutch does come into play how do you know which clutch tooth bell is needed?
#6 Is cutting along the grain easier on the saw than against the grain, giving the reason the ripping chain looks less aggressive that a regular cutting chain?
#7 Read some where that a full chisel chain is usually sharpened with a round file basically making it a semi chisel chain so why order a full chisel?
#8 From what I have seen on here it looks like a 30* angle is about the best all around angle for the teeth (better on some woods, not as good on others but will get the job done) but then the talk about 10* and 0* back cuts or something like that? Explain.

1. It is not just the pitch (length) of the cutters, but also the kerf (width of cut).
3./4. The number of teeth on the drive sprocket affect the speed of the chain and the torque produced, but you may need a longer or shorter chain (number of drive links) to fit.
6. Cutting end grain (ripping) is much harder than cross-cutting or 'noodling'. See the illustration below. Take a single piece of a tree trunk and try all 3 cutting orientations with the same saw/bar/chain combination to get a hands-on feel for this.
7. Full-chisel and semi-chisel chains are different and cannot be converted. Full chisel looks like the number '7' from the end, with a sharp, pointy corner; semi-chisel looks more like a '?', with a rounded corner. You may be confused between 'square ground' full-chisel chain, and 'round ground' full-chisel chain - a separate issue and discussion.
8. Milling chain is normally ground at different angles than crosscutting chain.

Lots of good information in the threads / forums - this one would be a good one to start browsing:

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/getting-serious-about-lo-pro.121746/

Philbert

 

[Marshy]

I have been cutting wood for years on the farm. Yes mostly firewood and tree clearing for better fields etc... and have always had pretty good luck considering I am basically self taught. Fast forward to present time and I want to do more chainsaw milling because I have gotten back into wood working as well and lets face it, lumber isn't cheap but downed trees are everywhere. So with that being said I have a LOT of questions for everyone to jump in and answer if you will please? Not looking for which chain or guide bar is best, or which saw to use etc... because everyone has there favorites and good for you. I am sure some of these questions have already been asked but I am going cross eyed looking through posts. A lot of these came into question when I wanted to replace my chain and bar. Currently running a .325 .058 76DL chain on a 20" bar and it seemed my choices were extremely limited on replacement options. If a question has already been answered maybe just post the link? Thanks.

Here goes...
#1 Is there really a noticeable difference between 3/8 and .325 chains?
#2 Why in your opinion is one better than the other?
#3 Does the different number of drive links have any effect on the cutting, as in are they like a gear ratio for the chain?
#4 Can you change over to a different DL(drive link) by just changing the bar and chain combo OR does the clutch gear come in to play?
#5 If the clutch does come into play how do you know which clutch tooth bell is needed?
#6 Is cutting along the grain easier on the saw than against the grain, giving the reason the ripping chain looks less aggressive that a regular cutting chain?
#7 Read some where that a full chisel chain is usually sharpened with a round file basically making it a semi chisel chain so why order a full chisel?
#8 From what I have seen on here it looks like a 30* angle is about the best all around angle for the teeth (better on some woods, not as good on others but will get the job done) but then the talk about 10* and 0* back cuts or something like that? Explain.

I am sure I have forgotten a few that were running through my head earlier but this will get things started. Thanks ahead of time for any and all you help and years of doing it right wisdom.

1. The answers to your question is still subjective and comes down to preference. Lots of people like 3/8 pitch chain over .325 and vice versa. The kirf is smaller on the .325 chain so it usea less power and wastes less wood. You can probably get more life from the 3/8 chain because the tooth is longer and therefore has a longer life. The .325 is a weaker chain than 3/8 and for milling you'll be limited on width you can mill before you stfart snapping chains... people also choose to put 3/8 on their smaller saws because they want to be able to buy only 3/8 If that's what the larger saws are running. The same argument can be made for .404 pitch over 3/8 but the bigger the chain the more power it takes to cut...

2. Answered above.

3. No, number of drive links in a chain are specific for the length if bar and does not work like gear ratio. However, you can change the size of the sprocket on the clutch drum and that is like changing gears. Change from a 7 tooth sprocket to an 8 tooth and you'll get more chain speed for any given rpm but you sacrifice some torque.

Just to confuse you I'll add this... pitch of the chain can make a difference too regarding chain speed and torque. If you are running a 7 tooth .325 pitch chain and move to a 7 tooth 3/8 pitch then you are going to pick up some chain speed and loose a little torque because the chain pitch is higher even though the sprockets are both 7 tooth.

4. Again, drive links are matched to bar length for that pitch chain. A 20" bar with .325 pitch chain is going to have more drive links than a 20" bar with 3/8 chain. You will have to change the sprocket to match the pitch is the chain. If you are using a sprocket nose bar then the roller tip is specific for the pitch of the chain as well. You cannot put 3/8 chain on a .325 roller nose bar.

5. Again, match the sprocket pitch with the chain you want to use. Choosing a 7 tooth sprocket vs 8 tooth is preference. You could argue a faster chain speed will leave a better finish but if you don't have the power in the saw to pull the bigger sprocket then you'll I crease your time cutting and it will be harder on the power head.

6. There's three types of cuts. Cross cut, like making firewood, ripping cut like milling, and lastly noodling. Noodling is you take a round of firewood and cut it with the grain to saw in half. You get long fibers as chips, that's why it's called noodling (not aware of any other name). The milling cut is the hardest of the three because of the fiber orientation. The chain has to be sharp and the rakers are not as aggressive as a cross cut chain because it requires a lot of power to cut the grains oriented like that.

7. No. Full chisel chain is the shape of the cutting face on the cutter. It looks like the number 7 with a sharp corner at the edge where the top place meets the side plate of the cutting tooth. A semi chisel tooth has a rounded corner to blend the top plate and side plate and the face resembles a ? mark.
The full chisel chain is more efficient because it's contact with the wood is less than the semi chisel when cutting fibers. The down side is the sharp corner blunts more easily so it dulls faster then semi chisel.

8. Regular cross cut chains for fellow g or firewood are filed at a 30 or 25 degree tip plate angle. This is relative to the bar. Conpletel perpendicular to the bar is 0 degrees and parallel with the bar is 90 degrees. Milling chain is more efficient with a shallow top plate angle. Again, comes down to preference but generally a 10 degree top plate angle is recommended for milling.

Feel free to correct any of this guys.

Hope that helps clear things up for you.

 

[Brian72]

I think you've con fused gauge with pitch re the sprocket Pitch is the distance of 3 rivets divided by 2 so you end up 3/8 325 etc gauge is the thickness of the DL's so a 3/ 8 x 050/058/063 chain can be run on the same sprocket just requiring a bar to suit,the nose sprocket will normally accept all gauges so a 3/8 replaceable nose will take any gauge chain of that pitch

You're right. My apologies. Thanks for the correction regarding sprocket pitch, not gauge.

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[OutDoorLiving2018]

A lot of great info, started to become clearer for me. Thanks!

 

[OutDoorLiving2018]

Well I guess I am getting it right so far. I round filed a full chisel chain at 30* with a 10* up angle (if I am saying that right) which made what I thought to be a really nice looking tooth. I use an old telephone poll as a practice piece and it cut through it like butter on all 4 test cuts. When this chain wears out I think I will go with a semi chisel so I don't have to sharpen as much but I do feel more confident in what I am doing now. Oh and it seamed to be cutting nice and straight as well.

 

[Philbert]

These are a great tool for getting very consistent cutters:

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-n-joint-revisited.193630/

Philbert