Major Tree Issue & What to look for in a Pro?

[WA_Homeowner]

Great board you have here; I've learned a lot in a couple of days of lurking!

We have a major tree problem in our backyard. After a big limb punched through our roof last week in a light rain, we called an arborist/service company to see what needed to be done before winter, and this was his assessment:

- There's a ~50' Big Leaf Maple that needs to be removed because it's rotted and all of the weight is on one side. These aren't the best pics, but should give you a rough idea:
No, the camera is not tilted:

The light spot in the middle is actually a huge hole in the bark:

- The maple has many limbs intertwined with a cedar that's also bad. All of the interwined limbs will have to be removed to make the maple safe enough to get through our storms.

- There are three other tall cedars that are dead or dying. Apparently, this is evident from the bare branches and massive amount of woodpecker activity. They'll need to be removed eventually, but aren't a threat of coming down in the next 5-10 years.

-He can take the branches off of the weighted sides of the maple and cedar now to make them safe, but then wait until next spring or summer to remove the trees. The reason for waiting to remove them completely is financial - he'd charge us $1750 to make them safe, then another $1750 to remove the trees (it's a difficult area to work in -they'll have to take down a couple of small fences and access the trees through our neighbor's backyard).

I'm getting other opinions and bids, but I wondered what your opinions were on this situation and what we should be looking for in a professional. From what I can tell, at least $1 million in insurance is good/necessary since two houses could be damaged, and of course we want someone who specializes in trees and has a lot of experience.

Also, if anyone knows of a good pro/company in the Seattle area, I'd greatly appreciate recommendations since I can't find reviews for anyone who services Southeast King County.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give us!

 

[treeseer]

If you get an "assessment" from someone who gets paid to cut trees, you will hear that your trees need to be cut. A lot of that advice sounds bogus. Pay an unbiased expert to assess your trees, then hire a cutter to cut, or do other tree care practices.

 

[Old Monkey]

Its too hard to tell from your photos. I would be curious about what caused that strip of dead bark. Is there any damage to the trunk at the base of the tree? I think you are doing the right thing getting multiple looks at your trees.

One thing I would look for in a tree guy is someone who asks you about your priorities. How much risk are you comfortable with to enjoy mature shade trees? Someone who just tries to scare you isn't giving your trees a fair shake.

 

[rbtree]

The cedars may be fine....those are sapsucker holes, all they are after is sap.

I'd be glad to give you an estimate and a fair assessment of the trees....but we are booked out 4- 8 weeks......

Price sounds a tad high....maybe, maybe not.

I'm in the yellow pages, but rarely get that far south, but I do have to visit a good customer in Kent soon.

The only good arborist I know of down south is Bryce Landsrud of Arborscan.

Treeseer makes a good point. You could contact Tree Solutions, Scott Baker, among the best consulting arborists around. treesolutions.net

Barnett Tree Care

 

[WA_Homeowner]

If you get an "assessment" from someone who gets paid to cut trees, you will hear that your trees need to be cut. A lot of that advice sounds bogus. Pay an unbiased expert to assess your trees, then hire a cutter to cut, or do other tree care practices.

That's a good point, but those two trees are clearly a danger to two homes. We've been worried about them doing damage since we bought the house last year, and apparently the previous owner and neighbor talked about taking them down for years because of the danger. In fact, the previous owner or title company may be paying for the work because this is likely something that should have been disclosed prior to sale.

We may be able to get away with just taking out the intertwined branches and the weight on the house side of the maple. We like the trees, but it'd be nice to have that space for something else in our yard, and we'd rather not worry about them killing us when we're asleep (they're right by our bedroom), so we'll take them down if necessary.

Its too hard to tell from your photos. I would be curious about what caused that strip of dead bark. Is there any damage to the trunk at the base of the tree? I think you are doing the right thing getting multiple looks at your trees.

One thing I would look for in a tree guy is someone who asks you about your priorities. How much risk are you comfortable with to enjoy mature shade trees? Someone who just tries to scare you isn't giving your trees a fair shake.

That's very good advice, and aspects I hadn't thought of. Thank you.

There's no missing bark at the base, but there's about a 3 foot oval of missing bark about 20 feet up. Maybe I can get a better picture of it tomorrow, but it kind of looks like the big woodpecker hole where the wise owl sits in cartoons (though it's not a hole). The wood was dry where the big limb that went through our rood snapped off. The arborist said the oval of missing bark and branch indicated dry rot, FWIW. We'll see what the other guys say. I'd imagine if they give the same specifics, they're likely telling the truth, rather than trying to sell us something we don't need.

The cedars may be fine....those are sapsucker holes, all they are after is sap.

I'd be glad to give you an estimate and a fair assessment of the trees....but we are booked out 4- 8 weeks......

Price sounds a tad high....maybe, maybe not.

I'm in the yellow pages, but rarely get that far south, but I do have to visit a good customer in Kent soon.

The only good arborist I know of down south is Bryce Landsrud of Arborscan.

Barnett Tree Care

Yeah, apart from the two trees closest to the houses, he said we could leave the rest of the cedars alone for years with no problem. He thought the woodpeckers were after beetles, which, along with the bare branches, meant they weren't so healthy, but even so, cedars are some of the strongest trees and aren't an imminent danger to our home. We'll keep an eye on the and leave them alone as long as they're not dangerous.

I'm not sure if I feel comfortable waiting 4-8 weeks to do anything at this point, but I'll give Bryce a call in the morning. Let me know if you want to swing by and take a look when you're in Kent, though - that's where we are.

Thank you very much for your advice and recommendations!

 

[Old Monkey]

Bare branches are sometimes just the result of shading and have nothing to do with the health of the tree.

 

[WA_Homeowner]

Bare branches are sometimes just the result of shading and have nothing to do with the health of the tree.

True, I've seen lots of trees with bare branches at the bottom. I didn't make that connection because I usually see firs with bare branches pretty low to the ground, like our last Christmas tree.

Can bare branches also indicate a sickly cedar though?

And, on the sapsucker vs. woodpecker thing, from what I can tell, sapsuckers can make trees sick or die, whereas insect-eating 'peckers attack dying/dead trees. So, either way, the holes aren't signs of a healthy tree, correct?

I'm just trying to get this straight.

((Take comfort in the fact that my stupid questions are indeed helping me learn more about trees and related topics, folks.))

 

[WA_Homeowner]

Sapsuckers usually only do cosmetic damage. They make a small hole and keep returning to suck the sap.

I have see severe cases thought where they have done damage.

As for going back to the title company because of un disclosed tree issues at house purchase...........did you move up from CA?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but we're WA natives (okay, Hubby lived in OR until he was 5). We're not litigious people, but it pisses us off that the seller knew these trees were a danger for years but failed to disclose it. I did some checking, and because these aren't recent problems, our insurance company may not pay in the event of damage - it could say the trees were a danger well before our policy was written, and it's both our and the seller's fault they were never taken care of.

I don't know how likely we are to recoup the costs of fixing/removing them, but if this is the kind of thing title insurance is for, we might as well take advantage of it. At least it doesn't hurt to try to avoid busting our budget.

 

[rb_in_va]

That's a good point, but those two trees are clearly a danger to two homes. We've been worried about them doing damage since we bought the house last year, and apparently the previous owner and neighbor talked about taking them down for years because of the danger. In fact, the previous owner or title company may be paying for the work because this is likely something that should have been disclosed prior to sale.

Whose opinion is is that the trees need to come down? Yours and the neighbors, or the guy you had come out to give an estimate? I would guess that you or the neighbor might not be qualified to make that call, and the guy that gave the estimate has a financial stake in telling you to remove them (as treeseer pointed out).

 

[WA_Homeowner]

TreeCo, we'll see - our realtor's looking into it as we speak. And, yes, we did have an inspection. I know they mentioned the hedges were too close to the cedar siding, but I don't think they said anything about the trees. I need to find the report - I just saw it around here the other day!

Whose opinion is is that the trees need to come down? Yours and the neighbors, or the guy you had come out to give an estimate? I would guess that you or the neighbor might not be qualified to make that call, and the guy that gave the estimate has a financial stake in telling you to remove them (as treeseer pointed out).

Well, we could take down all of the offending branches, and probably be okay for a while, it seems. Doing so, however, would most likely leave us with two very stupid looking trees.

My goal (and I'm sure the neighbor shares in it) is to remove the threat of damage to our homes. I can see the benefit of the trees coming down - we'd have more usable space, my garden would get the sun it needs to thrive, we wouldn't have a bunch of leaves all over, could plant trees we liked more, etc. - so I'm not going to be heartbroken if they need to come out. I'll be happy either way, as long as we're not left with something that looks ridiculous and I have peace of mind.

 

[WA_Homeowner]

Okay, Guy #2 said there is indeed rot on the maple, and the part that juts out needs to be removed, but we can keep the lower part and cedar next to it in tact.

He also said our other cedars don't look too hot, but we don't need to remove them unless/until they start to turn brown and are obviously gone. We have no idea when that'll be, so there's no worry for now.

He'll charge $1300 for fixing the maple.

He's not an arborist, but has a lot of experience. How important is that degree/certification, in your opinions?

 

[masiman]

I think you are SOL hoping the title insurance covers trees. I believe title insurance is for claims from others that they own your property or a piece of it, the transfer was illegal or liens against the deed.

Did you have a home inspection before you bought?

Maybe you can go after the home inspector's insurance.

I think TreeCo is correct about title insurance, it is only there to ensure that there are no problems with the title. If there are, then title insurance covers expenses to take care of fixing the title problems.

My experience with home inspectors is that they are only liable for how much you pay them. I.e., their advice and guarantee is only worth what you paid, pretty safe to say it would be $500 or less. However, this only based on two home inspections I have been through, none of them in Washington state. YMMV.

 

[gasman]

I think you are SOL hoping the title insurance covers trees. I believe title insurance is for claims from others that they own your property or a piece of it, the transfer was illegal or liens against the deed.

Did you have a home inspection before you bought?

Maybe you can go after the home inspector's insurance.

I believe most home inspectors specifically exclude outside property (landscape, irrigation, etc.) I know for a fact that the last two I have dealt with did have a very specific exclusion for this.

 

[Ekka]

Funny how everyone tries to blame some-one or claim it on insurance. It's an epidemic over here. I salute the insurance company for not accepting the risk, I wish they did that here coz the alternative is people would let it fall on the house then expect the house nicely rebuilt and the tree removed for the deductable of course.

You saw the trees when looking at the house, you should have had qualified or certified arborist assess them. Then a report would have been tabled with defects which would have lead to costs and then became part of the negotiation.

A pre-purchase tree inspection by qualified arborist would have been the appropriate avenue.

IMO if they aint qualified, dont use them.

Haven't you already learnt the hard way?

 

[treeseer]

You speak of "danger" and "threat" as if they were objective realities. They are subjective fears, until they are competently measured.

Most trees have rot. Most trees do not need to be removed for safety reasons.

Removing intertwined branches may increase risk of trees falling by removing support.

Expecting insurance to cover tree defects, minor or major, is a fantasy on the order of "that tree is a danger" without getting them assessed by an unbiased assessor.

 

[Old Monkey]

My goal (and I'm sure the neighbor shares in it) is to remove the threat of damage to our homes. I can see the benefit of the trees coming down - we'd have more usable space, my garden would get the sun it needs to thrive, we wouldn't have a bunch of leaves all over, could plant trees we liked more, etc. - so I'm not going to be heartbroken if they need to come out. I'll be happy either way, as long as we're not left with something that looks ridiculous and I have peace of mind.

From what you've said, you'd be better off removing them. You and your neighbor sound unlikely to trust the trees 100%, even after a safety pruning. You've bought a new house and you want to feel safe in it. That's no crime. I am a tree guy and I could climb that tree if it were mine, inspect it regularly and feel secure having it over my house and yard. Not having tree experience yourself you are subject to the opinions of tree guys. You've had a few already tell you they are suspect. Doubt has been sown.

 

[Ed Roland]

Defect + Target = Hazard

 

[WA_Homeowner]

From what you've said, you'd be better off removing them. You and your neighbor sound unlikely to trust the trees 100%, even after a safety pruning. You've bought a new house and you want to feel safe in it. That's no crime. I am a tree guy and I could climb that tree if it were mine, inspect it regularly and feel secure having it over my house and yard. Not having tree experience yourself you are subject to the opinions of tree guys. You've had a few already tell you they are suspect. Doubt has been sown.

I can live with removing the dangerous part of the maple. We can always remove the rest down the road if it seems unsafe or we want to do something else with that area.

On a personal note, I appreciate the way you and select others have put forth opinions and advice without an air of condescension or hostility. I have a thicker skin from years of participating on a board with free speech, but I'd imagine many newbies would never come back after receiving some of the responses I've gotten here.

For those of you who made those posts, chill out and remember most of us homeowners are coming here for friendly advice, not to be chastised for our lack of knowledge. People are far more likely to listen to opinions presented in a respectful way - there really is something to that old adage about catching more flies with honey/molasses than vinegar.

 

[Old Monkey]

Well I hope everything works out for you.

 

[Dixie1]

just to make sure you are getting good advice, have several other consultants come out and analyze the trees too. if they all pretty much say the same thing, then you will know which direction you need to take. plus, you need to make sure you have been given fair prices on the work. good luck!