making ourselves obsolete

[treevet]

Isn't this job getting easier and safer? With the evolution of better and more job specific gear and equipment and the demand to always wear ppe and follow more exacting standards (ANSI)....

Is this job even dangerous anymore?

Any of the more dangerous techniques one wants to learn they can just pick up a book, watch a video......or go on a forum and ask (respectfully). Are we creating our own monsters.

I have a little different perspective than most of you that don't know that relatively speaking...there were not that many tree companies to compete with back in the late 60's. There were always accidents, the gear and equipment very primitive (hemp rope!) and the level of knowledge was so far behind what it is now across the profession....it is a wonder more people did not die.

But now even though at first glance it appears to be death defying in nature....tree work truthfully with perpetually secured climbing, double tie ins, foolproof rope and harnesses sophisticated equipment, etc....has it become something like riding a bicycle and anyone can and will do it to the point that virtually everyone is or was a treeman at one time?

Newb....."how do you amazing guys get that giant dead tree down that is hanging over that mansion...."

"Well, look kid, pull your chair up to the computer screen, get a pencil and paper and ......"

 

[clearance]

The term "textbook hero, workplace zero" mean anything to you? Kind of like ISA certified people who only climb out of bed, big diff between seeing it done and doing it.

 

[treevet]

The term "textbook hero, workplace zero" mean anything to you? Kind of like ISA certified people who only climb out of bed, big diff between seeing it done and doing it.

What I am saying is it is actually safer and easier to actually DO it (not just read about it) with the gear, equipment, and all the instruction you can get from people like you and me on forums so......

this is why there are so many more people doing it and filling up the yellow pages and showing up to bid against you etc etc....and....

there are gonna be a whole lot more now that joe schmoe just lost his engineering job.

Not really looking for an answer here....just stating a dilemma. Are we, from day to day, training our own competition....and is this the dangerous job that should bring premium bucks....anymore?

 

[jefflovstrom]

The term "textbook hero, workplace zero" mean anything to you? Kind of like ISA certified people who only climb out of bed, big diff between seeing it done and doing it.

I know you dont mean all cert.ISA people.
Jeff
Treevet, Having an inspirational moment or two, or three?
Jeff

 

[treevet]

Jeff
Treevet, Having an inspirational moment or two, or three?
Jeff

No, not really, just stating the obvious, which sometimes fails to get stated.

Just for thought and discussion.

 

[clearance]

Climbing trees isn't the same as wannabees biulding decks, sheds, or doing some plumbing. Many are scared of heights, would never think of it. But I guess there are some, so I see your point.

 

[tree md]

I was thinking about the same thing the other day. For the first time I started thinking that some sort of certification requirement might not be too bad of an idea to weed out the weekend warriors and hacks. Trust me, I believe that people have a right to work but with the amount of liability and danger in our field some oversight and industry requirements might not be a bad thing.

Of course there is always the possibility of the untrained and unscrupulous ending up like this:

http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=37f7db6e-b4cf-4a61-9179-3cd8665c59bd

I know I have been guilty of giving direction to some of the weekend warriors myself. I guess I aught to watch what I say a little more.

 

[treesquirrel]

Taking this business for granted is a deadly prospect.

Even with all the techno gear, and I use a lot of the new toys, you gotta know how to work out rigging problems in your head. A mistake when rigging big stuff can seriously injure you or your groundies. Maybe even cause a fatality.

 

[treevet]

I guess I have not communicated my thought very well to either you TreeMD or you Treesquirrel. I think Clearance knows what I am saying in that the danger factor is leaning away from the Wallenda s to the shed builders in degree of difficulty and danger.

We moan about droves of hacks and yuppy tree companies flooding the market but maybe it is ......just not that dangerous anymore....and

knowledge needed to operate...be it field work or identifying decay causing organisms....is right at your fingertips in a download.

 

[treevet]

Here is an example. The green climber has mastered getting up in and around in big trees from forums and a little time in the saddle. He has figured out knots and hitches in the Sherrill Catalogue. He just cannot figure how to take big wood out of a tree over a roof that is too far away to toss and no crotch to swing it off the roof.

He brings this up on a forum and in return he is told to get the gm on the roof and hook up the big wood like this with this equipment....

 

[jefflovstrom]

I guess I have not communicated my thought very well to either you TreeMD or you Treesquirrel. I think Clearance knows what I am saying in that the danger factor is leaning away from the Wallenda s to the shed builders in degree of difficulty and danger.

We moan about droves of hacks and yuppy tree companies flooding the market but maybe it is ......just not that dangerous anymore....and

knowledge needed to operate...be it field work or identifying decay causing organisms....is right at your fingertips in a download.

You worry too much- how do you think we got this far. You should be more optomistic and all will be ok.
Jeff

 

[treevet]

You worry too much- how do you think we got this far. You should be more optomistic and all will be ok.
Jeff

There is a drastically different economic climate than I have ever seen in the, now, 41 years I have been in business. This is not the subject of what I am posting about but certainly a part of it.

I like your optimism though Jeff and as far as me personally, if only the strong survive in this economy, I plan to survive.

 

[jefflovstrom]

We all will.

Jeff

 

[treevet]

We all will.

Jeff

Time to step out of our comfort zone IMO. Then we make it.

 

[tree md]

There is a drastically different economic climate than I have ever seen in the, now, 41 years I have been in business. This is not the subject of what I am posting about but certainly a part of it.

I like your optimism though Jeff and as far as me personally, if only the strong survive in this economy, I plan to survive.

X2 although I have only been in it 20 years now.

I bid a job today that I would have hit at $1800 a year or so back. Large removal in the front, around 30" DBH. A little rope work, maybe 4 large limbs. Stump has to be ground. However this is for a lady who manages the property where I do commercial work. I told her $1675 and she looked like she had been gut shot. She told me she had already got a bid from a solicitor for $1400. Now I'm obligated to give her an even lower price if I want to remain in good favor for the commercial work. Ended up giving her a price of $1200 with the stump included.

As has been the trend this year, another job for about 1/3 less than what the market would bear a year ago.

 

[treevet]

X2 although I have only been in it 20 years now.

I bid a job today that I would have hit at $1800 a year or so back. Large removal in the front, around 30" DBH. A little rope work, maybe 4 large limbs. Stump has to be ground. However this is for a lady who manages the property where I do commercial work. I told her $1675 and she looked like she had been gut shot. She told me she had already got a bid from a solicitor for $1400. Now I'm obligated to give her an even lower price if I want to remain in good favor for the commercial work. Ended up giving her a price of $1200 with the stump included.

As has been the trend this year, another job for about 1/3 less than what the market would bear a year ago.

I hear ya man, I think we all do.

 

[treesquirrel]

I guess I have not communicated my thought very well to either you TreeMD or you Treesquirrel. I think Clearance knows what I am saying in that the danger factor is leaning away from the Wallenda s to the shed builders in degree of difficulty and danger.

I guess that's true with all the new gizmo's. It is certainly a lot safer than when hemp was all the rage.

I can see what you are saying but this is still tricky biz. There will always be danger, so when the danger level can be reduced then it is a good thing for us and our loved ones IMO.

 

[treesquirrel]

As has been the trend this year, another job for about 1/3 less than what the market would bear a year ago.

Yes, I have found myself getting underbid even if I quote at close to half what I would have two years ago. I'm having to bid jobs based on the time estimate for removal and just forget about any upcharges for high risk or high technical requirements.

Suddenly I find myself not even considering the level of difficulty and just trying to estimate the time as close as possible.

 

[treevet]

I guess that's true with all the new gizmo's. It is certainly a lot safer than when hemp was all the rage.

I can see what you are saying but this is still tricky biz. There will always be danger, so when the danger level can be reduced then it is a good thing for us and our loved ones IMO.

THAT is what I meant treesquirrel. Yes good for our safety but maybe the increase in safety of the profession gets LOTS more in the business (heck, not maybe....definitely) and with the ease of attaining knowledge the competition is increasing exponentially.

Ah....sorry bout the end of the world blather.

 

[treevet]

Yes, I have found myself getting underbid even if I quote at close to half what I would have two years ago. I'm having to bid jobs based on the time estimate for removal and just forget about any upcharges for high risk or high technical requirements.

Suddenly I find myself not even considering the level of difficulty and just trying to estimate the time as close as possible.

again.....not just the economy but also

increase in competition. It is so obvious around here.