Maple tree question

[ryans4022]

Yea they have regular 8 inch block 3 feet or so up then the square block with the rounded corners are on top of that and they run up to the 2x6's. I wanna put 6 new posts under it. Just dont wanna keep havin cracked concrete, if the tree were trimmed way back and the new concrete were reinforced with rebar would that do it???

 

[ryans4022]

Oh yea and when i replace the posts i have 2 tractors with buckets lined up to pick each end up.

 

[michigander]

Does this slab, have a foundation under it? Or is it just poured on grade? If the slab is floating and the roots are underneath and pushed up the concrete which in turn is pushing up on the post, then I think the building should be jacked up and fix the slab, level the posts up and set building back down. Sounds like a job for a professional, if you want to save building. Might be better to start over, if there is no foundation under this building and it is floating on the "Roots"

 

[ryans4022]

Yes i would say its floating on the ground, but i cant say for sure. This land has been in my family for years so i could ask my grandfather and see if he remembers, but i kinda wanna keep the ''upper part" its in good shape. Just want 6 new posts under it and a good slab

 

[michigander]

After looking at the one picture of your chimney, it looks like the chimney is setting on the slab. It wont be easy, to do what you want to do. Can you pick the upper part up, with the chimney right there? Get a hold of a good builder in your area. Get his input and go from there. If there is no foundation under this pavillion or chimney, I dont think this is a DIY project. Sorry to say so!

 

[elmnut]

Maybe you can cut a piece of drain tile in half lengthwise, place over the root before you pour. This will (should) give the root room to expand without breaking the concrete.

 

[SawTroll]

I'd leave the tree be and just live with the cracks. The tree sounds like it has alot of value. If the tree were taken out it would take years to replace the shade. How close is the trunk to the pavillion and how big are the roots? Try and post some pics if you can.

Agree!

 

[treeseer]

extensive root pruning will probably kill the tree

Dada, what is this wildasp opinion based on? It looks like the pruning cuts would be ~6' away from the trunk, a very low % of the total roots. If the rest of the rootzone got mowed low, broadcast fert and 4" mulch, root function might get a net gain.

STANDARD ROOT PRUNING
Also in the newly updated ANSI Pruning Standards, due out this year, we are likely to see root pruning covered for the first time. We are all used to the idea of pruning branches to provide clearance for buildings and pavement, but for many, inspecting and pruning roots to provide clearance for buildings and pavement is an unrealized possibility. Homeowners and other property managers are often concerned about the possibility of tree roots cracking the building foundations, even when the tree is some distance away. Several factors make this disruption unlikely. First, the soil near buildings is typically stripped of its organic layer and then compacted for building stability within 5 to 10 feet of buildings (Matheny and Clark, 1998) The decreased porosity and permeability in this compacted soil limit root growth and function (Craul 1992). Also, leaching from concrete and other construction material alters the acidity of the soil and further decreases suitability for root growth. For these reasons, roots tend to deflect away from buildings.

But still, roots will go where roots will grow. According to the draft version of the upcoming ANSI A300 (Part 1) Pruning Standard, we shall assess feasibility and suitability before recommending root pruning to clear buildings or pavement. When determining the minimum distance for the location of the cut to the trunk, consider crown size, root characteristics, exposure, soil type, tree lean, soil slope, current vitality, stability, and genetic vigor. As with pruning branches, leave a smooth surface. Where possible, cuts should be made at laterals, with the wounds facing downward. Typically, no sealant need be applied. Irrigation before, during and after shall be considered. Native or coarser soil should be used as backfill, and root pruned trees should be monitored. Once we master these standard operating procedures, we can confidently sell pruning services to lessen the risk of infrastructure buckling due to tree roots. Instead of buckling under to fearful demands to remove or butcher valuable trees, we have the option of preserving trees near buildings and pavement by reducing their roots.

page 28 here: http://www.treecareindustry.org/PDFs/TCI_Mag_Feb08_web1.pdf

 

[Dadatwins]

I used the word extensive meaning someone goes in there with a backhoe and starts excavating for a new patio there will be extensive root damage. A professional goes in there with an air spade, hand saw and some clippers and does some root PRUNING, of course the survival rate will be better. I should have clarified that in my original post.

 

[tanker]

you can put rebar,wire,fibre or whatever in your concrete,until you solve the root problem,it will continue to crack and heave,just won't have quite as much movement.When you repour,put either pea gravel or #11 stone underneath,this won't settle away from your concrete like pit run gravel or sand will. good luck with whatever you decide to do

 

[farmer]

My neighbor put a circular driveway in around some mature soft maples about 10 years ago. He took out the topsoil and replaced it with crusher run. 2 trees he left hardly any roots as there is a pool and garage in the vicinity also. Those 2 are dying back and don't appear to have much longer to live. The other one had extensive root damage but was left with a lot more roots than the other 2. It is doing fine. I think you could prune the roots and put a barricade in to prevent regrowth and your tree would survive no problem.

 

[capetrees]

Has anyone in here ever attempted to prune the roots of a silver maple this big before? I pulled a stump two years ago and it wasn't half the size of thias tree. I had to cut the root base up small to get out a gate, 4'x4' chunks. 6 chainsaw chains later, I got it out and into the truck with the mini exc. These roots are intensly dense and dirt filled between. You could cut the roots but they will grow back, almost guaranteed.

 

[capetrees]

Also, in looking at the pictures, it looks to me that tyhis structure is an open sided covered area/car port? If thats the case, whats the big deal. Not to diminish your concerns but from what you sounded like in the beginning, I thought it was more like a patio outside your home for entertaining on. This is a garage for the most part. In this case, after seeing the pictures, I would save the tree and live with the cracks. Have you considered some outside carpet, like low astroturf, to cover the cracks? Not partucularly green but some other neutral color I think would be good.

 

[farmer]

Looks like a barbecue-fireplace chimney there to me. I think you could put a barrier in to keep the tree roots out.

 

[michigander]

Has anyone looked at the pic's closely in the #16 post? The floating floor has cracked so much, the pillars that is on the left side in the middle is cracked half way to the roof. The chimney in the other pic even seems to be crooked at the top. There is no way he can take this floor out and fix this without taking the whole thing down or supporting the roof, then fixing it. There is even a problem with the barbecue chimney just setting on the slab. You could sawcut around it and leave it there and hope for the best, then repair the rest. Looking back, there should have been a foundation for the chimney and pillars. There is no easy fix for this problem as some have advised. He needs some professional help from a builder in his area, if he wants to keep this outbuilding standing.

 

[farmer]

It is hard to tell from the pictures- more pictures would help but

I don't think the chimney problem at the top is from heaving it
looks like it could have been built that way

There might be a foundation under the fireplace only a shovel will tell

The columns might not be built on the floor either -shovel again

It could be a homeowner job if they have some skill or guidance
from somebody that does

Supporting the roof and digging out column support and making it sit
on a footing 3 feet deep would be ideal if the fireplace does have its
own footing. I suspect it does or all the weight of the fireplace and
chimney would have caused it to setttle or shift.

 

[ryans4022]

Well thank you guys for all the help. That pavilion is a great summer hangout and the firepit is a great feature of it. Ill have to do some diggin and see if that firepit has a foundation under it, thats a spring job as my boat is under it right now. If i were to take a few limbs off and prune the tree up a bit wouldnt this slow or even stop root growth. That tree is good shade, but a little too much shade, so a 1 or 2 of the big limbs need to go.

 

[Dadatwins]

If i were to take a few limbs off and prune the tree up a bit wouldnt this slow or even stop root growth. That tree is good shade, but a little too much shade, so a 1 or 2 of the big limbs need to go.

THe short answer is No, pruning will not slow down or stop root growth. There is some good info on pruning mature trees on this site. You have a silver maple which does not close large wounds very well. Removing any of those larger limbs would not be a good idea in the long term. It can be pruned but needs to be done properly or you will cause more harm.
http://www.treesaregood.org/treecare/pruning_mature.aspx

 

[treeseer]

Removing large limbs is a bad idea. The tree can be shaped the way you want it with small cuts by an experienced climber. The roots can be pruned carefully and be kept away from your building.

If you just get someone to hack away at either branches or roots you will ruin your asset in the tree.

 

[kennertree]

I'd just leave it be. The damage has already been done and the roots are not likely to cause any more damage.