So, just to be clear you're saying all goods manufacture in China are of equivalent quality to their American or European counterparts just because the Chinese have a space program? I'm going to have to respectively disagree.
Must be time to rekindle the old 090
- Thread starter ozflea
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So, just to be clear you're saying all goods manufacture in China are of equivalent quality to their American or European counterparts just because the Chinese have a space program? I'm going to have to respectively disagree.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Of course I didn't say that. But they are certainly capable of making a copy of an obsolete old chainsaw - that's not even a challenge for any half-a$$ed industrial society. And they are capable of both designing and manufacturing goods of equivalent quality. You use many of those goods all the time, and you won't have any idea what parts in a supposedly American or European product were designed and made in China. The big European companies have gone in for outsourcing to China every bit as much as the American ones, and there is no way for you to know where any particular part came from.
Stihl and Husky have left themselves extremely vulnerable by their overpriced products. They are protected only by the stringent US and European emissions laws and by Husqvarna's investment in the strato patents and feedback carbs. Before Husky bought them for it Zenoah was having even their strato saws made in China, so they certainly know how.
BTW, I have successfully fought the outsourcing battle at my job several times in the last decade, and it looks like I will have to do it again based on the demands of a large European customer of ours that "knows" they are not getting the best price as long as we manufacture in the US. They have effectively outsourced a small portion of their product line to us (they didn't have an offering), and gutted the core of their own product line so all they do is assemble Chinese parts. We can make it better and cheaper, but they will not believe it. Just don't underestimate the capabilities of the Chinese, you have no idea how many engineers they graduate and how few we do.
ozflea
Good ol' BP Zoom 25-1
Well said ol mate
Yes, that's exactly what you implied - you went straight from obsolete old chainsaws to a moon rover . . . a bit dramatic I thought.
They may be (and are) very capable of high quality manufacturing, but why would they waste said resources on making a cheap chainsaw knock-off? They don't, that's the answer. My point is not that they are incapable of quality parts - I didn't say that. My point was that when a company wants to make a low cost option they incorporate low cost materials, processes, etc. Have you read any of the information comparing the cheap Chinese A/M pistons & cylinders to the higher quality options? Do you think they oddly decided to step up to the plate when making a whole chainsaw? Why?
You're getting way off track, which is what many folks do when they're losing their point. I know they graduate a lot of engineers - they also have a much larger population. But, quantity does not equal quality. When I graduated from engineering school I was surrounded by just as many dumbasses as geniuses. I suspect it's the same elsewhere in the world.
splitpost
Nothing but 32:1
Ok,ill bite,bob,we know there not oem......ok, yes you have made your point but why are you reluctant to give the good people of AS a vid to see just what can be accomplished with a bit of work ,oem top end on a chinese frame,i for one would like to see that.
Do you not have a camera or tube account?
Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2
Do you not have a camera or tube account?
Sent from my GT-S7500T using Tapatalk 2
WidowMaker1
Addicted to ArboristSite
more likely a webcam and chinese fetish tube account, ..which likely comes packaged with a Alibaba sales contract .lol
Mtthwvn
ArboristSite Operative
That old Mac is a nice running saw... I'd take it over two 070's if they don't run any better than what's in the vid.
ozflea
Good ol' BP Zoom 25-1
Hope you have sharp teeth ................ I'm a bit behind with a U-Tube acct and as always me batteries are flat possibly dead ..... but should it happen i'll keep you in mind and don't forget Bob starts with a capital B
samdweezel05
ArboristSite Guru
You are correct, speed isn't everything. Keep in mind that the "giant killers" from 50 years ago were made with technology and processes from 50 years ago as well....and they still survive today. That's what makes the original big CC saws what they were. Will that 070 still be alive and kicking in 50 years? Will the short line company that is making these saws still be around in 50 years? These knockoffs are being made for the guy that wants to have something that looks like what was made years ago with out spending a ton of money. If they were being built for real word use then they screwed up. With that said, if your just going to take it out once a year and cut a couple 20" cookies with it, it will probably do just fine.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Talk about losing the point - the Chinese 070 and 090 knock-offs are not the "low cost" option, they're the only option as the things are obsolete and no one else makes them. As to why would they waste resources - I guess they think there is some kind of market for it, probably mainly replacement parts for places where these are still used. I understand they were widely used all over the world and there may be considerable demand in some markets. I'd bet building up complete saws is a sideline. Beyond that they know well how to take over a market by undercutting everyone else.
And yes I've read much of the AM P&C nonsense - some looked good, some were horrid. Not long after that I saw a photo of an early Mahle cylinder - it was one of the poorest quality pieces of junk, absolutely put to shame by the castings in my cheap Poulans or the Earthquake.
The point was that people are whining because they aren't authentic originals. Chainsaw enthusiasts are not the intended market. You think some guy clearing rainforest South America cares if the spare part he got was made by Stihl?
Macman125
libertarian/anarcho-capitalist firewood hack
My 125 would whoop that a$$.
They are absolutely the low cost option. As has been brought up, it's an obsolete design. If you want a 100+ cc saw you have options and if you want the lowest cost option you buy a Chinese knock-off version of the 070/090. You can buy an old/used 070 or 090 or even an MS880, but if you can't or don't want to drop the cash that takes you move towards the cheap choice.
You're right, they do know how to undercut everyone; by taking shortcuts. Shortcuts on material sources & quality. Shortcuts on manufacturing processes and copied designs. Shortcuts in safety and social responsibility. Shortcuts resulting in a low cost inferior quality product.
Aesthetics do count for a little, but having worked for years in a foundry I can assure you that casting quality inspection is far more than looking at the outside. Just like people and books . . . it's what's on the inside that counts. Bad finishing & machining can quickly ruin a good casting. Excellent finishing & machining can make a horrible and unsafe casting look like a trophy.
Nobody is "whining" because these saws aren't authentic originals. We're correcting the statements that they are of equivalent quality to authentic originals - that's the bottom line. That's what we're arguing about right? That's why this topic makes its rounds and gets people fired up. I'm a newbie member so I didn't get to play during the past rounds and now it's my turn. Good clean fun!
You're right, they do know how to undercut everyone; by taking shortcuts. Shortcuts on material sources & quality. Shortcuts on manufacturing processes and copied designs. Shortcuts in safety and social responsibility. Shortcuts resulting in a low cost inferior quality product.
Aesthetics do count for a little, but having worked for years in a foundry I can assure you that casting quality inspection is far more than looking at the outside. Just like people and books . . . it's what's on the inside that counts. Bad finishing & machining can quickly ruin a good casting. Excellent finishing & machining can make a horrible and unsafe casting look like a trophy.
Nobody is "whining" because these saws aren't authentic originals. We're correcting the statements that they are of equivalent quality to authentic originals - that's the bottom line. That's what we're arguing about right? That's why this topic makes its rounds and gets people fired up. I'm a newbie member so I didn't get to play during the past rounds and now it's my turn. Good clean fun!
samdweezel05
ArboristSite Guru
This is a whole other fun discussion that could be had. I do understand that the 070/090 is brand spankin new but getting into a large displacement saw for less than a new 070/090 can be done.
I picked up this clean, good running 088 with 36" B&C 3 weeks ago for $500.
I got this running, cutting SP125c with a 42" B&C about a month ago for another $500.
Also just bought an 075 with a 48" B&C for $300 that needs a coil.
Mtthwvn
ArboristSite Operative
It can't be much if they run anything like the vid posted earlier....
Now if they ran like this one I'd be interested, but I'm pretty sure this is an original.
066blaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
as far as speed goes I had an 075 that didnt have the speed of the new big saws but you could not bog it down like the 070 in that vid.
that thing sounded weak, something wasnt right with that saw, it revved like someone stuck a cork in the muffler!!!!!!!!!
that thing sounded weak, something wasnt right with that saw, it revved like someone stuck a cork in the muffler!!!!!!!!!
ozflea
Good ol' BP Zoom 25-1
So capital "b" Bob. What are your intentions of this thread? What do you do with these saws?
Well run em I suppose and you fellas have made it as plain as day 070's suck but mine have 090 top ends so I anticipate they will run like 090's the only difference will be mine will be Chinese and not German and since I don't cut professionally then I'm not concerned in how long they last as regards durability as the Chinese will look after me at a much fairer price.
Seeing how people respond to what they consider a threat to a much loved saw .............. I built two just because I wanted to and so I could experience what you fellas recon is such a great saw
The difference between the saw in the video and the Chinese ones is only in the cushioning as it's AV system will bolt straight to the Chinese 070/090.
Well run em I suppose and you fellas have made it as plain as day 070's suck but mine have 090 top ends so I anticipate they will run like 090's the only difference will be mine will be Chinese and not German and since I don't cut professionally then I'm not concerned in how long they last as regards durability as the Chinese will look after me at a much fairer price.
Seeing how people respond to what they consider a threat to a much loved saw .............. I built two just because I wanted to and so I could experience what you fellas recon is such a great saw
The difference between the saw in the video and the Chinese ones is only in the cushioning as it's AV system will bolt straight to the Chinese 070/090.
Gday olson I wonder what make of timber you were cutting colour of meat , nice olsaw thanks for the vid
WidowMaker1
Addicted to ArboristSite
come on "B"ob , there comes the time to dirty them saws and stop rooting around the bush. a short video would be in everyones interest just to see what all your fuss is about . cheers
That's a very nice AV in that video, and I'm liking your avatar there WidowMaker1. Been wanting to get my hands on both versions of the AV, but just haven't been able to make it happen yet. I did buy a would-be excellent 090AV from an eBay seller recently, but when I got it I immediately noticed the handle had been damaged and poorly repaired which made it worth a lot less than what I'd paid. The seller was great and took it back and reimbursed me in full including return shipping, but I was disappointed to have one in hand and have to let it go...
